Posf1 - Coventry Vs Swindon, Monday 29 September

[Poole Quay 7]

I will be surprised If Swindon don't win over two legs.

 

Hope it's a great semi-final play-off for all concerned.

[EnglishRoundabout]

Hoping Coventry can take a 10 point lead to Swindon to have a chance, but think Swindon will win tomorrow night, making next weeks meeting a complete dead rubber.

I wouldn't be so sure. Two very even matches coming up. A couple of Bees riders hitting form at the right time. Surely Hansen can't be as bad as he was at Blunsdon last time either.

[markyb]

yes lord greaves of the fist!

Finally some potential decent news this weekend for the Grieves family.

I understand that they do a great Christmas dinner in Winson Green prison.

[deanr1]

so getting rid Jensen was a 100% A grade F88K up!

 

he wasnt brilliant bur not we have a great hole were a heat leader was supposed to be!

 

the team will need all the help it can get, luckily one of the swindon team will be sure of a very warm welcome, lets see if just ike darcy ward a couple of years back we "crowd noble him"

 

Certainly looks that way, we've gone back to the problem that we had early on in the season and the reason Fisher was released, we have no third heat leader.

 

When the problem was resolved by signing MJJ we looked a very strong side, it's a pity as I think we would have won the league with an MJJ / Kenni Larsen standard of rider at number 3. No disrespect to Summers or Robbo but they are ok second strings not EL heat leader level, even Barker is more of a good second string than a heat leader.

[Woz01]

 

Certainly looks that way, we've gone back to the problem that we had early on in the season and the reason Fisher was released, we have no third heat leader.

 

When the problem was resolved by signing MJJ we looked a very strong side, it's a pity as I think we would have won the league with an MJJ / Kenni Larsen standard of rider at number 3. No disrespect to Summers or Robbo but they are ok second strings not EL heat leader level, even Barker is more of a good second string than a heat leader.

Yet people slated MJJ scores, he wasn't exactly prolific. I think we will get away with Summers as heat leader at Brandon but need Fricke at Swindon.

I wouldn't be so sure. Two very even matches coming up. A couple of Bees riders hitting form at the right time. Surely Hansen can't be as bad as he was at Blunsdon last time either.

I've read Hansen scored a max today, looks in form at the right time.

[SCB]

Yet people slated MJJ scores, he wasn't exactly prolific. I think we will get away with Summers as heat leader at Brandon but need Fricke at Swindon.

 

I've read Hansen scored a max today, looks in form at the right time.

But people were stupid. He was scoring 6 and 7. Which is more than Fisher, more than Summers will get etc etc. People moaned because they saw his GP scores and wanted to know why he wasn't doing that for Cov. Didn't matter, he was signed as a 6.5 3rd heatleader and was doing that job just fine - people were not realistic. What over rider signed on 6.5 at the start of the season as a heatleader has done better? I'll tell you, NONE! In fact every 6.5 heat leader has seen their average drop this season riding in that position (Morris has gone up over the seaosn but his average dropped as heatleader)

 

Compare him to Morris, Cook, Schlein, Klyamkopri, Proctor, Bridger, Pawlicki (Shamek), Buczkowski, Karlsson, Barker, King, Kennett etc and tell me he was doing a bad job.

 

Now compare him to the rider who replaced him, Barker, average 5.28 this season.

 

There also the fact that when it comes to the play-offs there was a chance than MJJ could be in the mood and knock in a score of 10-12 points. Barker would score 8 on a good day. While summers will do well to get 5.

[Woz01]

But people were stupid. He was scoring 6 and 7. Which is more than Fisher, more than Summers will get etc etc. People moaned because they saw his GP scores and wanted to know why he wasn't doing that for Cov. Didn't matter, he was signed as a 6.5 3rd heatleader and was doing that job just fine - people were not realistic. What over rider signed on 6.5 at the start of the season as a heatleader has done better? I'll tell you, NONE! In fact every 6.5 heat leader has seen their average drop this season riding in that position (Morris has gone up over the seaosn but his average dropped as heatleader)

 

Compare him to Morris, Cook, Schlein, Klyamkopri, Proctor, Bridger, Pawlicki (Shamek), Buczkowski, Karlsson, Barker, King, Kennett etc and tell me he was doing a bad job.

 

Now compare him to the rider who replaced him, Barker, average 5.28 this season.

 

There also the fact that when it comes to the play-offs there was a chance than MJJ could be in the mood and knock in a score of 10-12 points. Barker would score 8 on a good day. While summers will do well to get 5.

To be fair though I don't think we have missed him at all but obviously playoffs could be a different story.

[deanr1]

To be fair though I don't think we have missed him at all but obviously playoffs could be a different story.

 

I think away at Leicester we would have done a lot better with MJJ, with the new format riding at number 3 is very unforgiving and while a rider like Summers or Robbo could certainly get a good score on his day riding at 2 or 4 against riders of a similar standard, there are no easy rides at 3 and it is too much to ask of them. Especially against Swindon with 2 excellent heatleaders in Kildemand & Batch and Gustafsson who can be very quick if he makes the gate.

 

I remember looking at my programme at Leicester and struggling to see where Summers would score a point, it's a tough job for him.

[Gemini]

So why exactly did they let MJJ go as I was on holiday when it all happened? Did he miss a meeting so they got rid?

[deanr1]

So why exactly did they let MJJ go as I was on holiday when it all happened? Did he miss a meeting so they got rid?

 

If I recall correctly he pulled out of our meeting at Belle Vue to ride in a Swedish league match? So they gave him the boot and replaced him with Barker who did 3 rides then got injured leaving us only able to use PL guests as EL heat leaders.

[Silver Cheetah Snr]

 

If I recall correctly he pulled out of our meeting at Belle Vue to ride in a Swedish league match? So they gave him the boot and replaced him with Barker who did 3 rides then got injured leaving us only able to use PL guests as EL heat leaders.

For league match read play off meeting

[SCB]

Yes. He chose to ride in a re-arranged Sweden EL play-off meeting for his club of 3 seasons rather than ride at BV. We should have sucked it up and used a PL 3 pointer at BV. As it is, the team did so well we'd have still won there anyway.

 

Even use a guest and got him banned for 28 days. Used guests for the last month but at least he'd have been available for the play-offs. I know some will argue that nobody could forsee Barkers injury but you have to work out the risk, MJJ or Barker, what are the plus and minus points of both. Missing MJJ meant EL 6.5 guests, missing Barker means 5.9 PL guests. Barker there is between 3 and 8 points, MJJ there is between 5 and 12 points. Ok more chance of Ben being in the mood but an in the mood Barker is not that much better than a "meh" MJJ. MJJ tends to pick it up on the big occasions, maybe the EL play-offs would be a big occasion for him.

[brandonbee48]

So why exactly did they let MJJ go as I was on holiday when it all happened? Did he miss a meeting so they got rid?

On Sept 1st Dackarna- his Swedish team rearranged a rained-off play-off fixture. He also had the Bees fixture at Belle Vue that same night. He chose to ride for Dackarna- he scored 13 points for them.

The Bees won easily without him. 56-36.

.http://www.speedwaygb.co/14results/belle_vue_01.09.14_res.pdf

 

http://ta.svemo.se/Public/Pages/Competition/DrivingSchedule/CompetitionHeatSchema.aspx?Branch=Speedway&Season=2014&Serie=Elitserien&Resultfilter=APPROVED&Columns=FromDateShort,Name,HeatSchema,HeatResult&pagesize=20&CompetitionId=4119

 

The dilemma of speedway riders who ride in more than one league. The Bees chose to get rid of him . The rest is history.

Regards. Alan.

[Jacques]

So why exactly did they let MJJ go as I was on holiday when it all happened? Did he miss a meeting so they got rid?

 

http://www.coventrybees.co/news.php?extend.2867

[BluPanther]

Yes. He chose to ride in a re-arranged Sweden EL play-off meeting for his club of 3 seasons rather than ride at BV. We should have sucked it up and used a PL 3 pointer at BV. As it is, the team did so well we'd have still won there anyway.

 

Even use a guest and got him banned for 28 days. Used guests for the last month but at least he'd have been available for the play-offs. I know some will argue that nobody could forsee Barkers injury but you have to work out the risk, MJJ or Barker, what are the plus and minus points of both. Missing MJJ meant EL 6.5 guests, missing Barker means 5.9 PL guests. Barker there is between 3 and 8 points, MJJ there is between 5 and 12 points. Ok more chance of Ben being in the mood but an in the mood Barker is not that much better than a "meh" MJJ. MJJ tends to pick it up on the big occasions, maybe the EL play-offs would be a big occasion for him.

Spot on SCB, it is probably the most ridiculous sacking in Elite Lge history IMO...

[mdmc82]

Spot on SCB, it is probably the most ridiculous sacking in Elite Lge history IMO...

Very true. Up to that point we were favourites. Now we go into this meeting clear underdogs with only 2 heat leaders and Howarth returning too soon from injury.

 

Just hope bees put up a good fight as been brilliant to watch this year.

[Dornier]

Its best to nip things in the bud before it escalates otherwise you end up with a WARD situation.

[beesknees]

Yes. He chose to ride in a re-arranged Sweden EL play-off meeting for his club of 3 seasons rather than ride at BV. We should have sucked it up and used a PL 3 pointer at BV. As it is, the team did so well we'd have still won there anyway.

 

Even use a guest and got him banned for 28 days. Used guests for the last month but at least he'd have been available for the play-offs. I know some will argue that nobody could forsee Barkers injury but you have to work out the risk, MJJ or Barker, what are the plus and minus points of both. Missing MJJ meant EL 6.5 guests, missing Barker means 5.9 PL guests. Barker there is between 3 and 8 points, MJJ there is between 5 and 12 points. Ok more chance of Ben being in the mood but an in the mood Barker is not that much better than a "meh" MJJ. MJJ tends to pick it up on the big occasions, maybe the EL play-offs would be a big occasion for him.

 

Been a while since I posted on the forum, waning interest in a sport where it feels like the sport's administrators seem hell bent on running it into the ground to "prolong" their own businesses in the short term.

 

For me, the issue of MJJ, illustrates the state of the sport in this country ...not sure we know the full facts of who said what to whom but that aside, the incident shows just how the sport in Britain now ranks way behind Poland and Sweden.

 

The rider had a choice to make, no doubt under pressure from his Swedish club, between his integrity and his ambition, the promoter a difficult choice to make between his integrity and his ambition for the club. Appears that the rider chose ambition over integrity, the promotion integrity over ambition. Would two votes for "ambition" have righted the wrong? Would certainly have kept the Bees in with a chance of the League Title in 2014 and the fans would no doubt have forgiven MJJ his "no-show" and simply moved on to support their club.

 

I do think it was a decision made in haste though, clearly no thought of the scenario which could develop in the event that Barker became injured, illustrating the absence of forethought or someone on the outside of the inner circle at the club that is trusted to ask the question "what if" ... an approach which has served previous promotions well in my view with the last great tactical move the club made in 2010 with the mid-season introduction of Bridger / Kasprzak / Pawlicki ... cue the winter of discontent.

 

As for the Play Off Semi, let's just hope for two entertaining meetings that are fairly fought to showcase how great this sport can be when the politics are removed and the riders are given the tools to ply their trade to the best of their abilities ...

 

ATB

BK

Edited September 29, 2014 by beesknees

[SCB]

Spot on SCB, it is probably the most ridiculous sacking in Elite Lge history IMO...

If the management had (sort of) said, "He's left us in a mess. We're more worried about integrity of our riders than winning" they may have had a point - a very naff one as it's a sport and it's all about winning but they could have taken the high ground. but they could hardly use that line could they as they signed Barker - the guy who at the start of 2013 left Coventry after signing to sign for Birmingham. So we swapped like-for-like in terms of attitude to the club.

 

I've long said, give me the 8 point, uncommited, only there 80% of the time rider over the fully committed there 100% of the time 6 point man - it's basically what we did with Shamek for 2 seeasons - and that worked well!

Edited September 29, 2014 by SCB

[Gemini]

Thanks for the replies. Hard decision to make and it was unfortunate that Barker immediately got injured. Oh well, I will just have to sit back and enjoy the meeting tonight, although I have an idea I'm going to be disappointed in the results of both matches.