Hamster00 Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 What is the alternative? You've lost me with that statement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkafag Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 (edited) The biggest issue with Jake Allen isn't the 7 point average as he'll drop to something more sensible 8 meetings in (or be a super star, and get 7 so the World [well Berwick] is a good place) but the fact that if he does struggle a bit, and by the end of next season is still short of the 7 he won't be allowed back. Is the risk worth possibly only 2, not so great seasons? 7.00 is a hard average to hit, it sounds a lot easier saying a rider will average 7.00 than them actually doing it. That being said it usually pretty obvious early on how good the young Oz riders are going to be, either good or bad, Fricke, Josh, Morris, Smith, Masters, Tungate, Holder (James and Chris), Ward, Penfold etc. An exception might be someone like North who did struggle early on in his career at Newcastle but by the middle of the season you could tell he had something. If Allen went to 5.00 but showed signs it would be worth keeping him for another year and giving him the chance to hit 7.00. You've lost me with that statement? If the performance of a club under a promotion isn’t acceptable, what do you propose the alternative is? Edited December 22, 2014 by sparkafag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster00 Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 If the performance of a club under a promotion isn’t acceptable, what do you propose the alternative is? You make changes, sign different riders, get rid of certain riders, one area we have certainly lacked in is our inability to replace under performing riders during the season we seem to give them way longer than they deserve, change the team management and so on and so forth You don't just stand still and let it pass you by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spittalbandit Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 If we keep allen on 7 points this would leave 19.5 points for four riders. Imo would be best using alex and three solid riders on five points . Probably get shouted down here but the likes of jari makkinen 4.5 tero aarnio 5.54 plus another . Makkinen would be good reserve with three or four riders swapping at reserve. The likes of tero normally would pick up 7-8 points at home . I know didnt have grwat time at glasgow but was only brought in at end of season. Even if not aarnio and makkinen the idea i think would help cover allen on 7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YAMYAMBANDIT Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 Certainly reads that way. Was giving a choice of riders, not fitting them all into one team, see what I mean now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkafag Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 You make changes, sign different riders, get rid of certain riders, one area we have certainly lacked in is our inability to replace under performing riders during the season we seem to give them way longer than they deserve, change the team management and so on and so forth You don't just stand still and let it pass you by. In 2013 Berwick made wholesale changes midseason and reshuffled the side In 2012 Berwick used/contracted 17 riders (the highest number in the league that season) In 2011 Berwick used 12 riders In 2010 it was 10 In 2009 it was 11 Multiple team changes, riders signed/resigned, changes made, how many riders can you sign in a season 15/20/25? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster00 Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 (edited) In 2013 Berwick made wholesale changes midseason and reshuffled the side In 2012 Berwick used/contracted 17 riders (the highest number in the league that season) In 2011 Berwick used 12 riders In 2010 it was 10 In 2009 it was 11 Multiple team changes, riders signed/resigned, changes made, how many riders can you sign in a season 15/20/25? In 2013 all the changes were forced on us due to injury and all the changes that came with that In 2012 as you say we used 17 riders, of those 17 10 of them were injured at some point during the season and we also made some big errors with signings at the start of the season and had to sack Filip Sitera after a handful of meetings to fit in replacements once again a lot of these changes were forced In 2011 we had 3 riders who were replaced by injury and the other changes were getting rid of Tamas Sike why we signed him in the first place who knows and we replaced Charlie Gjedde who was garbage and was in the team for far too long in 2010 6 of our 10 riders were injured at some point during the season forcing changes again in 2009 we only had one injured rider but we also let William Lawson stay for way too long. Edited December 22, 2014 by Hamster00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkafag Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 In 2013 all the changes were forced on us due to injury and all the changes that came with that In 2012 as you say we used 17 riders, of those 17 10 of them were injured at some point during the season and we also made some big errors with signings at the start of the season and had to sack Filip Sitera after a handful of meetings to fit in replacements once again a lot of these changes were forced In 2011 we had 3 riders who were replaced by injury and the other changes were getting rid of Tamas Sike why we signed him in the first place who knows and we replaced Charlie Gjedde who was garbage and was in the team for far too long in 2010 6 of our 10 riders were injured at some point during the season forcing changes again in 2009 we only had one injured rider but we also let William Lawson stay for way too long. So in three seasons changes had to made (multiple) due to riders suffering injury. It is only in the context of that situation that 3 doesn’t sound that bad, but even that that is nearly half a side lost through injury. It isn’t any wonder that seasons have been impacted by that? You make a point re 2012, and the side being wrong at the start, that was because of injury problems before the season had started, Berwick didn’t start the first meeting with their intended 1-7. A decent point re Lawson and Gjedde being kept to long, but the underperforming Sike and Sitera were booted after a handful of meetings, which by your own admission should happen. You are actually contradicting your own point there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster00 Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 (edited) So in three seasons changes had to made (multiple) due to riders suffering injury. It is only in the context of that situation that 3 doesn’t sound that bad, but even that that is nearly half a side lost through injury. It isn’t any wonder that seasons have been impacted by that? You make a point re 2012, and the side being wrong at the start, that was because of injury problems before the season had started, Berwick didn’t start the first meeting with their intended 1-7. A decent point re Lawson and Gjedde being kept to long, but the underperforming Sike and Sitera were booted after a handful of meetings, which by your own admission should happen. You are actually contradicting your own point there I don't think Sitera was booted due to under performing it was so we could fit Lubos Tomicek in personally I wouldn't have booted him as early as we didn't see enough of him to know what he would be like, he did in the end go to Glasgow and was pretty poor but so was Tomicek so swings and roundabouts there Sike yeah they got it right by booting him after a handful as he was never going to set the league alight I just think we do let some riders just hang about for way too long, Robin Aspregen for instance did nothing for a full season and still managed to see it out It just confuses me sometimes some of the decisions that have been made. Edited December 22, 2014 by Hamster00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XTC38L Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 The biggest issue with Jake Allen isn't the 7 point average as he'll drop to something more sensible 8 meetings in (or be a super star, and get 7 so the World [well Berwick] is a good place) but the fact that if he does struggle a bit, and by the end of next season is still short of the 7 he won't be allowed back. Is the risk worth possibly only 2, not so great seasons?even if he does fall short of a 7pt Ave after 2 years he will still be eligible for a visa if he places top 4 in state championship so or qualifys for his national championships. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster00 Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 (edited) If we keep allen on 7 points this would leave 19.5 points for four riders. Imo would be best using alex and three solid riders on five points . Probably get shouted down here but the likes of jari makkinen 4.5 tero aarnio 5.54 plus another . Makkinen would be good reserve with three or four riders swapping at reserve. The likes of tero normally would pick up 7-8 points at home . I know didnt have grwat time at glasgow but was only brought in at end of season. Even if not aarnio and makkinen the idea i think would help cover allen on 7. Tero Aarnio would start the season on 5.54 and more than likely finish the season somewhere near they he is a gap filler if no other options are left but he wouldn't be my choice If we stick with Allen and have 19.50 left to play with how about Anders Mellgren 6.57 Leigh Lanham 4.90 Ben Wilson 4.86 Nathan Greaves 3.00 Leaves us with 0.17 to play with Granted that team won't exactly be world beaters but people like Lanham can help young Allen along and I see a lot of Sheffield fans were disappointed Ben Wilson didn't get re-signed It's just an idea so that at least we have one reasonably strong reserve to cover if Allen is struggling. Edited December 22, 2014 by Hamster00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Blobby Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 (edited) I am assuming you know little about his ability? Probably haven’t seen him race? So without knowledge of his ability, how can it be known if he is a safe bet on either 5.00 or 7.00? He is only going to be as good as his performance on track (if he signs) he could be Davey, he could be Masters (although he seems closer to the Masters group than the Davey, Penfold group). If in 2 years time he is carrying an average like Tungate or Morris, is he worth 7.00 now? Were Rymel, Franc and Makovsky worth 9.00 to be safe bets 2 or 3 years down the line? Riders who could be kept for 5/6/7 years? Is that not the point of signing assets and why you were one who was pushing that idea earlier in the winter? You stated earlier in this thread that you wanted the side filled with 5.00 and 7.00 assessed riders, so what has changed now that has come to fruition? Having watched Allen in the NSW titles a few weeks ago on his performance in that meeting wasn't very good but when he did hit the front in his last race he looked to have a bit of pace but he was up against wobblers. the scorecard for anyone interested http://www.kurrikurrispeedway.org.au/Results%202014%20NSW%20Open%20500cc%20Speedway%20Solo%20Championships.pdf Edited December 22, 2014 by Mr Blobby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arson fire Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 Tero Aarnio would start the season on 5.54 and more than likely finish the season somewhere near they he is a gap filler if no other options are left but he wouldn't be my choice If we stick with Allen and have 19.50 left to play with how about Anders Mellgren 6.57 Leigh Lanham 4.90 Ben Wilson 4.86 Nathan Greaves 3.00 Leaves us with 0.17 to play with Granted that team won't exactly be world beaters but people like Lanham can help young Allen along and I see a lot of Sheffield fans were disappointed Ben Wilson didn't get re-signed It's just an idea so that at least we have one reasonably strong reserve to cover if Allen is struggling. that would be the worst team assembled since speedways invention 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster00 Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 that would be the worst team assembled since speedways invention You obviously haven't seen half the teams Berwick have assembled over the past 10 years then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 After getting rammed down your throat by all those close to management about strength in depth is the way forward and results to suit their theory, why have we went down this route? why do our assets not want to ride for the club you have to ask.Jorgensen for Bellego someone for Kus would have been sufficient .Unless we have masterplan of course! I'm sure Barker and a3 pointer would have fitted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arson fire Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 Barker will be taking up a big chunk of any budget i would think, so maybe hands are tied a little?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XTC38L Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 Having watched Allen in the NSW titles a few weeks ago on his performance in that meeting wasn't very good but when he did hit the front in his last race he looked to have a bit of pace but he was up against wobblers. the scorecard for anyone interested http://www.kurrikurrispeedway.org.au/Results%202014%20NSW%20Open%20500cc%20Speedway%20Solo%20Championships.pdf I don't know what you class as a wobblers but the riders he beat are far from that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Blobby Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 (edited) I don't know what you class as a wobblers but the riders he beat are far from that. okay then riders who are not very good Edited December 22, 2014 by Mr Blobby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 even if he does fall short of a 7pt Ave after 2 years he will still be eligible for a visa if he places top 4 in state championship so or qualifys for his national championships. But if he's only average 5 why would they want to bring him back on a 7 on the basis of a state final result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XTC38L Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 But if he's only average 5 why would they want to bring him back on a 7 on the basis of a state final result.he will be on the average he has gained. okay then riders who are not very good and you base that on what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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