Birmingham Brummies - Has The Come Back Trail Started?

[Brummie Kev]

Great news to hear this is a possibility and even better news to hear that a very loved British rider will be riding there too -- after all he deserves a break -- so much talent and too many injuries. Lets hope 2015 is a good all round year for speedway!

Adam Roynon???, Really hope so as hes well loved with Brummies fans. Was a 9 point PL rider when he last rode for us.

[*JJ]

Adam Roynon???, Really hope so as hes well loved with Brummies fans. Was a 9 point PL rider when he last rode for us.

He was faster than Jason Lyons, and not many riders could say that ... injuries ruined his career. Would love to see him back, but doubt if he would fit in a team with King, Barker and Covatti.

[uk_martin]

I feel pretty sure Tony must have got the Go ahead from the GRA that the stadium will be available to use next season,

 

I think that the GRA are hoping and praying that Tony Mole will bring speedway back, and that next Wednesday's meeting will be a success.

 

Without speedway's rental revenue, there's a belief that the GRA can't make the stadium pay for itself from greyhound racing alone. The last 7 years have seen greyhound racing whittling down from 4 nights a week to just two. Without the speedway, that stadium may well close of its own accord.

 

The good news there then is that it improves Tony Mole's bargaining position from where he was in 2006/2007 in that the GRA probably need the Brummies now, more than they did 7-8 years ago, and their terms and conditions could be a lot more attractive as a result.

 

Let's hope so anyway.

[racers and royals]

 

I think that the GRA are hoping and praying that Tony Mole will bring speedway back, and that next Wednesday's meeting will be a success.

 

Without speedway's rental revenue, there's a belief that the GRA can't make the stadium pay for itself from greyhound racing alone. The last 7 years have seen greyhound racing whittling down from 4 nights a week to just two. Without the speedway, that stadium may well close of its own accord.

 

The good news there then is that it improves Tony Mole's bargaining position from where he was in 2006/2007 in that the GRA probably need the Brummies now, more than they did 7-8 years ago, and their terms and conditions could be a lot more attractive as a result.

 

Let's hope so anyway.

Plus 2 BAGS meetings every week-these are where the money is made.

[uk_martin]

Adam Roynon???, Really hope so as hes well loved with Brummies fans. Was a 9 point PL rider when he last rode for us.

 

Nothing personal against Adam Roynon, as I really loved watching him in action in 2008...HOWEVER...let's face facts, he can't go through a season without picking up horrible injuries. To see him break his leg in 5 places at Rye House just from laying his bike down to avoid Phil Morris, just showed one inescapable fact about his physical make-up, that he is too brittle boned. Someone close to him ought to be telling that to him as well, as he's going to suffer in later life from the complications all these injuries could inflict on him. Sorry, but I'd rather pay for Roynon to retire and preserve his health than to see him on a countdown to another injury in Brummies colours.

[OGT]

 

I think that the GRA are hoping and praying that Tony Mole will bring speedway back, and that next Wednesday's meeting will be a success.

 

Without speedway's rental revenue, there's a belief that the GRA can't make the stadium pay for itself from greyhound racing alone. The last 7 years have seen greyhound racing whittling down from 4 nights a week to just two. Without the speedway, that stadium may well close of its own accord.

 

The good news there then is that it improves Tony Mole's bargaining position from where he was in 2006/2007 in that the GRA probably need the Brummies now, more than they did 7-8 years ago, and their terms and conditions could be a lot more attractive as a result.

 

Let's hope so anyway.

Really hope you're right as far as terms and conditions are concerned.

[uk_martin]

Plus 2 BAGS meetings every week-these are where the money is made.

 

Have you seen the attendance at a BAGS meeting? - The dogs owners are there, and maybe some close family. That's it. If they are relying on television broadcast revenues then they are on a dodgy wicket for the long term IMHO

[racers and royals]

 

Have you seen the attendance at a BAGS meeting? - The dogs owners are there, and maybe some close family. That's it. If they are relying on television broadcast revenues then they are on a dodgy wicket for the long term IMHO

They don`t care how many are there-it`s free entry anyway-it`s all about the BAGS fee which is quite substantial.

[uk_martin]

They don`t care how many are there-it`s free entry anyway-it`s all about the BAGS fee which is quite substantial.

 

But not future proof.

 

People are broadening their directions and horizons when it comes to gambling and "old fashioned dog racing" may go out of fashion without notice. Put the BAGS business model to a vote at the Dragons Den and I think you'll get a unanimous "I'm OUT". Let's face it, punters can win or lose money gambling on virtual dog racing...why should the providers of a gambling service go to the expense of paying for the real thing?

[racers and royals]

 

But not future proof.

 

People are broadening their directions and horizons when it comes to gambling and "old fashioned dog racing" may go out of fashion without notice. Put the BAGS business model to a vote at the Dragons Den and I think you'll get a unanimous "I'm OUT". Let's face it, punters can win or lose money gambling on virtual dog racing...why should the providers of a gambling service go to the expense of paying for the real thing?

So If we follow your chain of thought-Horse Racing is doomed as well-might as well just have virtual.

[uk_martin]

So If we follow your chain of thought-Horse Racing is doomed as well-might as well just have virtual.

 

For as long as the nags attract a crowd, there will be a "social element" that will keep it going. Having been to Ascot, and been well impressed with the stadium and with how they make an effort to attract people to the races then maybe there is still a future.

 

If it ever gets to the "one man and his dog" levels of attendences though, like with greyhounds, then the slippery slope will just get steeper.

[racers and royals]

 

For as long as the nags attract a crowd, there will be a "social element" that will keep it going. Having been to Ascot, and been well impressed with the stadium and with how they make an effort to attract people to the races then maybe there is still a future.

 

If it ever gets to the "one man and his dog" levels of attendences though, like with greyhounds, then the slippery slope will just get steeper.

But it`s not one man and his dog-I have already explained about BAGS and I should imagine the Friday and Saturday nights attract a healthy crowd.

[ProudtobeaBrummie]

Uk martin agree 100% with you about adam smashing kid but he really is going to suffer later in life I'm afraid ..

 

BUT your idea that virtual dogs can replace real dogs is laughable to be honest . There is millions of pounds bet on a single bags meeting from perry barr ... If you don't believe me next bags meeting go on betfair click on a race as it starts and it will say how much money has been traded normally around 70 k per race but that is just 1 trader there are hundreds of them . Huge sums of money I have put up to 500 on a dog before (I was a owner ) but would never dream of putting a penny on a virtual race as I like to study form formulate an opinion and then back my opinion like the majority of big punters... More than happy to hear a response but I' don't want a slanging match just decent chat ..

[kitten2502]

Great news to hear this is a possibility and even better news to hear that a very loved British rider will be riding there too -- after all he deserves a break -- so much talent and too many injuries. Lets hope 2015 is a good all round year for speedway!

 

A little bit premature don't you think? Although we are feeling positive about a return it is by no means certain - let alone building a team yet.

Edited September 26, 2014 by kitten2502

[The Pedaler]

Good luck to the Brummies revival

Edited September 26, 2014 by The Pedaler

[The White Knight]

Good luck to the Brummies revival

I was about to Quote you The Pedler...........................

 

Woops - then you edited your Post.

 

What about virtual Speedway?

[SCB]

He was faster than Jason Lyons, and not many riders could say that ... injuries ruined his career. Would love to see him back, but doubt if he would fit in a team with King, Barker and Covatti.

King, Barker, Roynon and Covatti comes to about 28. Throw in a 3 pointer and you have 31. That still leaves about 11 for 2 riders. I fail to see why that 4 cannot be fitted into a team together.

[arthur cross]

 

I think that the GRA are hoping and praying that Tony Mole will bring speedway back, and that next Wednesday's meeting will be a success.

 

Without speedway's rental revenue, there's a belief that the GRA can't make the stadium pay for itself from greyhound racing alone. The last 7 years have seen greyhound racing whittling down from 4 nights a week to just two. Without the speedway, that stadium may well close of its own accord.

 

The good news there then is that it improves Tony Mole's bargaining position from where he was in 2006/2007 in that the GRA probably need the Brummies now, more than they did 7-8 years ago, and their terms and conditions could be a lot more attractive as a result.

 

Let's hope so anyway.

 

Even allowing for a speedway-tinted view from a speedway fan, you've come up with an absolutely staggering misjudgment of the revenue balance between greyhound racing and speedway meetings at Perry Barr ... I've quoted one post from you when I could have also quoted several subsequent ones that have betrayed your total ignorance of the situation.

 

Perry Barr's BAGS greyhound meetings every Sunday lunchtime & Tuesday lunchtime bring in at least £6,000 per meeting in betting-shop picture-fees, perhaps even as much as £8,000 per meeting ... what's more, with only the very occasional bad-weather abandonment in mid-winter, those fees are coming in all 52-weeks of the year so that's at least £600,000 to £800,000 per year into Perry Barr's coffers without a single person needing to stroll through the turnstiles.

 

The GRA are notoriously poor prize-money payers so they're only spending about £2,000 of each BAGS-meeting's picture-fees on the prize-money for those races ... the rest comfortably funds the day-to-day upkeep of the stadium & the wages of the few full-time staff with the bonus of the Sunday meetings attracting a modest number of spectators for a bit of extra profit from any food, drink or tote-bets they enjoy.

 

All of which means the evening greyhound meetings only need to attract enough of a crowd to cover each night's prize-money and the extra costs of the part-time staff needed for the extra demand for food, drink and tote-service and that's where greyhound racing has accepted in recent years that the public will only tend to turn out in profitable numbers for that business plan on Thurs-Fri-Sat nights, hence the reduction of midweek nights of greyhound racing across the country.

 

It's not what you suggest as a "whittling down" of the number of nights of racing ... it's actually an economic common-sense move by the dog tracks to concentrate their efforts into marketing and running their meetings on the nights their customers actually want to come and enjoy them.

 

Now let's have a look at what speedway generates at Perry Barr ... the rent's around £2,000 per meeting (if it gets paid) but that's only once-a-week and only for 7-months per year and, even then, it's weather-dependent so it's effectively only 6-months per year ... meanwhile, speedway attracts a crowd that mostly like to stay outside while buying only the occasional burger or drink instead of the dog-racing crowd mostly staying inside guzzling far more food and booze throughout the evening plus having plenty of tote-bets on their night's action on the track.

 

In other words, for the finances at Perry Barr, a night's speedway is somewhere between the handy bonus of any Sunday-lunchtime crowd-expenditure topping up that day's BAGS-fee and the standard profitability of a weekend night's dog-racing so without knowing the exact figures, I'd put it a bit nearer the "Sunday" end of this equation than the "standard" end.

 

There is absolutely no way that, in your words, " ... the GRA probably needs the Brummies now, more than they did 7-8 years ago ... ".

 

In fact, please tell all of us from where (other than your own chronic ignorance) you've got that view of this situation.

 

Instead, bear in mind the GRA's 21st-century record of how important speedway's been to them at Wimbledon and Oxford, leaving them with only one of their tracks (Belle Vue) currently hosting speedway and that's not going to be for much longer thanks to the Aces' new stadium rather than any GRA decision.

 

Much though it's encouraging to see Tony Mole arranging efforts to revive the Brummies in 2015 and beyond, I've yet to see or hear a single word from either him or the GRA about where things stand regarding the Brummies' rent-debt left behind at Perry Barr by the Phillips-regime.

 

Until that debt is tidied up to both the GRA's and speedway's satisfaction, any revival surely can't go forward.

 

Anyone thinking the GRA are "hoping and praying" for speedway's return is living in a land even the cloud-cuckoos wouldn't dream of entering.

[uk_martin]

Thank you for that very sobering contribution to the discussion. Maybe you're right, and maybe I'm wrong.

 

And maybe a lot of Birmingham supporters will be really cheered up by reading what you've written.

[arthur cross]

I'll stand by what I posted earlier today based upon my family's deep financial background, my own degree in Economics & Statistics, over 20 years involved in all sorts of aspects of speedway and over 10 years working professionally within a combination of greyhound racing and the bookmaking industry.

 

One other point worth adding on this thread (as opposed to the mentions I've given about it on the Wimbledon and Oxford threads on this forum in recent months) ...

 

It would be far harder for the GRA to close Perry Barr than any of their other dog-tracks even if they reckoned the greyhounds at Perry Barr weren't profitable because they run this stadium in a leisure-economics partnership with Birmingham City Council instead of still owning freehold-rights (Wimbledon) or having recently privately-sold the freehold-rights (Hall Green & Belle Vue) to make a dent in their multi-million-pound debts from a decade ago to various Irish banks.

 

That's why the Brummies' demise under the Phillips-regime is arguably even more appalling than any other recent speedway closure because it's happened at a track that's just about as safe as possible among rented-stadiums from any redevelopment threat !!