Lakeside Vs Poole 1st Sept (sky Meeting)

[Bryn]

 

Not sure how long you have been following the sport Norman but tracks have always been and probably always will be shall we say "extremely economical" with the truth when it comes to the weather on race days, most of the time they will not admit to any rain unless its actually been rained off, this goes back to even before the internet was invented in the days where the only source of info was via a telephone and more often than not a land line rather than a mobile phone.

Best way is to see what others are saying, keep an eye on the radar if you have access to one via the many apps, and a make judgement call based on that.

 

Well I don't know how many times you've made contact with the Lakeside Hammers speedway office for weather updates this season "Claret73," but I can assure you that the guy who mans the phone on raceday afternoons/early evening answering all the "is it on" calls from around the country has never been as you put it, " "extremely economical" with the truth." He even goes to the trouble of asking callers where they live/are when they phone and, if appropriate in terms of any doubt regarding a meeting going ahead (which wasn't the case yesterday), suggesting that they phone again before they leave for the track. That man, although not a meteorologist, gives an honest assessment at the time of any call on current and forecasted conditions.

[TesarRacing]

IMHO, Lakeside are one of the better speedway clubs to give regular weather updates and keep the supporters informed.

[moxey63]

IMHO, Lakeside are one of the better speedway clubs to give regular weather updates and keep the supporters informed.

 

Just have trouble telling the pairing for Heat 11, that the match is off and please could they return to the pits.

[E I Addio]

 

That actually is right, it is the team who are losing who can request a track inspection after heat 10. Dumb & dumber who were commentating got it wrong as they stated it was the team who were leading at the time.

 

In which case why was Watt so instrumental in the abandonment yesterday? The Poole riders were at the tapes ready to race heat 11, so obviously although they weren't happy with the track initially after the downpour and wanted it called off before the result could stand they seemed happy enough to continue past heat 10.

 

Was a complete farce really, nobody seems to know who called the abandonment - Sky, Ref, Watt, Poole?

 

 

Do you seriously believe that the activity you see on screen is the only activity in the pits ? Have you never looked in the pits when Sky are at a meeting ? Take a look in the pits next time Sky are at your track and see the amount of direction they give. Kelvin Tatum even said in the commentary "its obvious that if this were a normal meeting it would be called off by now " .

[BritPete]

I thought it was a great meeting, because any meeting in which Poole lose has to be great!

[E I Addio]

What do Poole care? They'll be in the play offs regardless. You lot are so bloody obsessed with Poole that you can't see Lakeside trying to cheat themselves into the play offs ahead of Eastbourne and my own club Swindon.

 

 

So, now that Skidder 1 has kindly quoted the rules showing that it was Muddlo's call not Lakeside's how exactly were Lakeside cheating ?

[bigcatdiary]

Not sure how long you have been following the sport Norman but tracks have always been and probably always will be shall we say "extremely economical" with the truth when it comes to the weather on race days, most of the time they will not admit to any rain unless its actually been rained off, this goes back to even before the internet was invented in the days where the only source of info was via a telephone and more often than not a land line rather than a mobile phone.

Best way is to see what others are saying, keep an eye on the radar if you have access to one via the many apps, and a make judgement call based on that.

Very well put Claret and extremely accurate, weather reports by supporters are getting more reliable.

[Tom Turner]

 

 

So, now that Skidder 1 has kindly quoted the rules showing that it was Muddlo's call not Lakeside's how exactly were Lakeside cheating ?

 

Because Poole tried to call off the meeting and were refused. You could hear an SCB official (not sure who he was by face) telling Neil that the racing would get easier after a few heats. You could clearly see that Neil wasn't happy.

 

As soon as heat 10 arrived and past, Poole were still happy (sort of) to ride, it was Lakeside that called it off. Sky announced the meeting had been called off before Middlo had even confirmed it.

[Grachan]

So, now that Skidder 1 has kindly quoted the rules showing that it was Muddlo's call not Lakeside's how exactly were Lakeside cheating ?

As already said, Poole wanted the match off. It continued, so Poole said that it was Lakeside's call.

 

Lakeside were 9 up after heat 10. That guaranteed them 3 points if the match was abandoned.

 

The riders were at the tapes for heat 11. The track was improving. A Poole 5-1 would rob Lakeside of a point.

 

Lakeside were quite clearly vociferous in the pits to stop the meeting immediately to get themselves maximum points. They already knew that Poole had said it was their call.

 

Lord knows how they managed it, but the match was abandoned in improving conditions.

 

You might not think that's cheating but I do.

 

The paying public were cheated. Eastbourne and Swindon were cheated.

 

If Lakeside qualify for the play offs by one point then surely that is unfair considering this match could have been concluded and Poole were still in it.

[bigcatdiary]

Because Poole tried to call off the meeting and were refused. You could hear an SCB official (not sure who he was by face) telling Neil that the racing would get easier after a few heats. You could clearly see that Neil wasn't happy.

 

As soon as heat 10 arrived and past, Poole were still happy (sort of) to ride, it was Lakeside that called it off. Sky announced the meeting had been called off before Middlo had even confirmed it.

Mick Bates was the Ref/Steward in the pits from what I saw.

[E I Addio]

As already said, Poole wanted the match off. It continued, so Poole said that it was Lakeside's call.

 

Lakeside were 9 up after heat 10. That guaranteed them 3 points if the match was abandoned.

 

The riders were at the tapes for heat 11. The track was improving. A Poole 5-1 would rob Lakeside of a point.

 

Lakeside were quite clearly vociferous in the pits to stop the meeting immediately to get themselves maximum points. They already knew that Poole had said it was their call.

 

Lord knows how they managed it, but the match was abandoned in improving conditions.

 

You might not think that's cheating but I do.

 

The paying public were cheated. Eastbourne and Swindon were cheated.

 

If Lakeside qualify for the play offs by one point then surely that is unfair considering this match could have been concluded and Poole were still in it.

 

Sidder1 has already posted the relevant rule which shows that it was the losing sides, call, i.e. it was Poole's call not Lakesides. If Muddlo doesn't know the rules , that's not Lakeside's fault. If Pearson gets the rules wrong in his commentary, that's not Lakeside fault either that's not Lakesides fault either.l either.

 

"Lakeside" were not vociferous in the pits, only Dave Watt was,. It was his job as Captain to make representations to the meeting co-ordinator..

 

Track conditions were not improving. Kelvin Tatum and Chris Louis agreed on that point. It might not have showed clearly on the TV screens but to those who were there it was obvious that with each race there was a build up of sludge on the outside of the track thrown up by the bikes.. Tatum mentioned it even if the TV audiences couldn't actually see it.. Davey Watt got caught in the build up of sludge on the outside on bend 4 lap 4 of the last race, couldn't slide the bike and nearly got sucked into the fence. That was when the whole track issue kicked off again as Watty got back to the pits.

 

The fact remains that according to the rules Skidder 1 has posted on the thread, it was Pooles call to have the meeting off. At least that's what the rules say. The reality may well have been that it was Sky's decision but certainly no rules were broken by Lakeside. Shambles it may have been , cheating it wasn't.

[Starman2006]

As already said, Poole wanted the match off. It continued, so Poole said that it was Lakeside's call.

 

Lakeside were 9 up after heat 10. That guaranteed them 3 points if the match was abandoned.

 

The riders were at the tapes for heat 11. The track was improving. A Poole 5-1 would rob Lakeside of a point.

 

Lakeside were quite clearly vociferous in the pits to stop the meeting immediately to get themselves maximum points. They already knew that Poole had said it was their call.

 

Lord knows how they managed it, but the match was abandoned in improving conditions.

 

You might not think that's cheating but I do.

 

 

If Lakeside qualify for the play offs by one point then surely that is unfair considering this match could have been concluded and Poole were still in it.

Spot on.

[Daytripper]

Spot on.

Spot on wrong.

 

Just to clarify, it was Ronnie Russell that sent the riders out for heat 11 so he must have deemed the meeting to still be on at that point.

The last person to speak to the Meeting Co-ordinator before he took the decision to abandon the meeting was not a rider or a team manager or a promoter. It was someone from Sky although the camera didn't show that bit. I'll leave you to work out who it was and draw your own conclusions from that.

 

The track was not improving . The biggest problem was visibility for the riders who didn't make the gate. It never ceases to amaze me that people who are not at a meeting and don't see what's going on behind the scenes think they know all the ins and outs of everything that goes on.

[Vincent Vega]

After seeing Watts attitude last night together with his crap away form I hope you lot can see why earlier in the season I was calling for Cookie and Duggo to get rid.

[salty]

Just to clarify the ruling.....

when a meeting steward is appointed one of their roles is to....

"to make at his/her sole discretion a decision to delay or order a postponement or

abandonment in which case no further racing, practice or track use is permitted." Rule 14:6

 

In this case it was Mick Bates, and it is surely only Mick Bates who knows why he made the decisions he made last night and who was influencing those decisions.

 

Edit:

Quoting Daytripper's post above

"Just to clarify, it was Ronnie Russell that sent the riders out for heat 11 so he must have deemed the meeting to still be on at that point."

Again I ask the question if Mick Bates is the appointed Meeting Steward, why is Ronnie Russell running about with a headset on at all the Sky meetings and what is his official role. Is he representing the BSPA, GoSpeed or Sky and what power does he have over the proceedings.

Edited September 2, 2014 by salty

[cityrebel]

I was at the meeting last night, the track looked a lot worse on the TV than it did from my position on the back straight. I left the stadium feeling that the match should have run it's full course, but in hindsight the riders of both sides should be congratulated for getting a result.

[SteveLyric2]

Just to clarify the ruling.....

when a meeting steward is appointed one of their roles is to....

"to make at his/her sole discretion a decision to delay or order a postponement or

abandonment in which case no further racing, practice or track use is permitted." Rule 14:6

 

In this case it was Mick Bates, and it is surely only Mick Bates who knows why he made the decisions he made last night and who was influencing those decisions.

 

Edit:

Quoting Daytripper's post above

"Just to clarify, it was Ronnie Russell that sent the riders out for heat 11 so he must have deemed the meeting to still be on at that point."

 

Again I ask the question if Mick Bates is the appointed Meeting Steward, why is Ronnie Russell running about with a headset on at all the Sky meetings and what is his official role. Is he representing the BSPA, GoSpeed or Sky and what power does he have over the proceedings.

Ronnie is the Sky Track Co-ordinator or Liaison Officer - nothing to do (in theory) with the SCB Meeting Steward, Mick Bates!!

[g13webb]

We are constantly ridicules for going on about the good ole times, but what happened last night would never have happened years ago. I can remember some very important meetings continuing when it got wet. 77 World Final, and Kenny Carter British Final to name a couple.

Then the riders were expected to race to the conditions. It wasn't the case of having to ride flat out, they adjusted accordingly to race in whatever the conditions were... None of this 10 heat rubbish.

 

The rule itself, asks for controversy ...........and it never fails.....

[foreverblue]

Spot on wrong.

 

Just to clarify, it was Ronnie Russell that sent the riders out for heat 11 so he must have deemed the meeting to still be on at that point.

The last person to speak to the Meeting Co-ordinator before he took the decision to abandon the meeting was not a rider or a team manager or a promoter. It was someone from Sky although the camera didn't show that bit. I'll leave you to work out who it was and draw your own conclusions from that.

 

The track was not improving . The biggest problem was visibility for the riders who didn't make the gate. It never ceases to amaze me that people who are not at a meeting and don't see what's going on behind the scenes think they know all the ins and outs of everything that goes on.

As someone who was at the meeting I felt it was a very raceable track and none of the riders in heat 10 seemed to have a problem riding it and I felt short changed by the whole fiasco

[salty]

Ronnie is the Sky Track Co-ordinator or Liaison Officer - nothing to do (in theory) with the SCB Meeting Steward, Mick Bates!!

Thank You. As far as I can tell that is not an "official" role. The Speedway Regulations certainly don't make reference to it as far as I can see.

My understanding was that a Meeting Steward was appointed for Sky meetings and was situated in the pits to liase with the Sky team to ensure the meeting was run to help with their schedule. Therefore it is hard to see why there is a need for Ronnie Russell to be involved - he certainly shouldn't be "sending riders out to the tapes"

 

As for last night I have a certain amount of sympathy for Middlo, he only did what all team managers would do. Keen not to ride when his team was losing, but less keen to stop if there was hope of a point.

 

I suspect that the overiding influence on last nights decisions was Sky (possibly in the guise of Mr Russell)and it was strange how the meeting was swiftly concluded once the end of their 9.30 transmission time was in sight.

Edited September 2, 2014 by salty