Lakeside Vs Poole 1st Sept (sky Meeting)

[moxey63]

Not read previous posts, so don't know if this has been mentioned, but I feel the match was only planned to get to heat 10 before they'ddecide to blow time. Too easy to get to a tenth race touchdown and call a halt, something Pearson always harps on about reaching.

[arthur cross]

One thing in common. At both meetings when the cameras honed in on the crucial dscussions about whether to carry on the unmistakeable features of Ronnie Russell loomed in the background. Given he was not the meeting steward, does anyone know why he is at every Sky meeting?

 

Ronnie Russell gets his share of the gravy train by being Sky's liaison man (hence the headset you saw him wearing tonight) between the Sky tv-producers and the host club's track staff regarding any circumstances where lengthy delays (either crash-related or weather-related) force the meeting to deviate plenty of minutes away from its ideal way of fitting into the 2-hour slot Sky allocate for the 15-heats.

 

if the weather's good on a night of few crashes, each heat and advert-break neatly take place within just as couple of minutes of Sky's ideal template.

 

Whether Ronnie Russell has ever had a sensible clue about track preparation is debatable and probably overlooked when he was first appointed to this post.

 

But as far as Sky are concerned, he'll have properly earned his wages this evening for a good night's work because the programme filled its allocated 2-hours without ending really early or spilling into the next programme and it also produced a result which officially counted towards the league table.

 

As it neatly filled its 2-hour live slot, it will also need minimal (if any at all) editing to be shown in the various 2-hour repeat slots overnight and tomorrow.

 

For Sky, that's all way more important than any consideration for the paying public.

 

Add in neither club wanting the expense of bringing their riders back for a re-staging while the home club don't want the hosting expenses (the ambulances, etc) of a re-staging and that pushes the paying public even further down the priority list.

 

Given that it was mentioned several times tonight that there appeared to be hardly any more rain on the way once the heat-6 downpour eased off, I'm sure that without Sky's presence there would have been a longer mopping-up operation to create a much better chance of getting the meeting the full distance once it could safely resume.

 

A few years ago (with no live tv-coverage getting in the way), I saw a meeting have a 1-hour 51-minute rain-delay between heats 5 & 6 but then safely go its full distance when the riders, knowing there was no further rain forecast, all willingly preferred to let the track staff have the extra time they required to reach the ideal solution to a heavy downpour.

 

We'll never know whether that long a delay would have been the best way towards all 15-heats this evening but that kind of solution was never likely to occur with Sky around ... instead, we had just a 41-minute rain delay between the two versions of heat-7 with the re-run taking place just over 1hr-20mins into the 2-hour live tv-slot.

 

Allowing about 7-minutes for Sky's end-of-meeting musical montage and the final ad-break, that meant the heat-7 re-run began with marginally over half-an-hour in which to show 4 sloppy heats (and the inevitable pits-debates in between them) before the official result could be declared ... in other words, a tidy amount of time to work through what still needed to go ahead without too much more presenter-waffle before the result could go into the league table.

 

And then you've got a world-class whinger like Davey Watt on hand to play his part about 7-minutes before Sky were aiming to roll that musical montage anyway so that was rather handy timing as well !!

 

Most of the time, it's good for British speedway that Sky Sports still want to show it on their channels but there's undoubtedly also the awkward trade-off that when the weather behaves the way it did tonight, you'll end up with the kind of sequence we all saw tonight for the reasons I've just explained ... it's then up to everyone individually to decide whether it's worth the skewed priorities we've all witnessed amid this awkward weather this evening.

Edited September 1, 2014 by arthur cross

[speedwaysliders]

Heat 10 winning time was 61.5,if they had raced heat 11 it would have come down to more or less normal racing times.In fact in all my years watching speedway at arena essex i think the track would have been in better shape come the end of the meeting ,then it was at the start!!! .Thats what really annoys me,people like Jon Cook,who knows the track better then most,had no respect for the loyal fans that turned up.he was seen pushing and shoving everyone in getting to heat 10,but where was he when it got to heat 10?

[stevebrum]

Potentially denying us a point

 

 

Boo hoo. You gained at Belle Vue, this time you didn't.

Such is life.

[Daytripper]

Ronnie Russell gets his share of the gravy train by being Sky's liaison man (hence the headset you saw him wearing tonight) between the Sky tv-producers and the host club's track staff regarding any circumstances where lengthy delays (either crash-related or weather-related) force the meeting to deviate plenty of minutes away from its ideal way of fitting into the 2-hour slot Sky allocate for the 15-heats.

 

if the weather's good on a night of few crashes, each heat and advert-break neatly take place within just as couple of minutes of Sky's ideal template.

 

Whether Ronnie Russell has ever had a sensible clue about track preparation is debatable and probably overlooked when he was first appointed to this post.

 

But as far as Sky are concerned, he'll have properly earned his wages this evening for a good night's work because the programme filled its allocated 2-hours without ending really early or spilling into the next programme and it also produced a result which officially counted towards the league table.

 

As it neatly filled its 2-hour live slot, it will also need minimal (if any at all) editing to be shown in the various 2-hour repeat slots overnight and tomorrow.

 

For Sky, that's all way more important than any consideration for the paying public.

 

Add in neither club wanting the expense of bringing their riders back for a re-staging while the home club don't want the hosting expenses (the ambulances, etc) of a re-staging and that pushes the paying public even further down the priority list.

 

Given that it was mentioned several times tonight that there appeared to be hardly any more rain on the way once the heat-6 downpour eased off, I'm sure that without Sky's presence there would have been a longer mopping-up operation to create a much better chance of getting the meeting the full distance once it could safely resume.

 

A few years ago (with no live tv-coverage getting in the way), I saw a meeting have a 1-hour 51-minute rain-delay between heats 5 & 6 but then safely go its full distance when the riders, knowing there was no further rain forecast, all willingly preferred to let the track staff have the extra time they required to reach the ideal solution to a heavy downpour.

 

We'll never know whether that long a delay would have been the best way towards all 15-heats this evening but that kind of solution was never likely to occur with Sky around ... instead, we had just a 41-minute rain delay between the two versions of heat-7 with the re-run taking place just over 1hr-20mins into the 2-hour live tv-slot.

 

Allowing about 7-minutes for Sky's end-of-meeting musical montage and the final ad-break, that meant the heat-7 re-run began with marginally over half-an-hour in which to show 4 sloppy heats (and the inevitable pits-debates in between them) before the official result could be declared ... in other words, a tidy amount of time to work through what still needed to go ahead without too much more presenter-waffle before the result could go into the league table.

 

And then you've got a world-class whinger like Davey Watt on hand to play his part about 7-minutes before Sky were aiming to roll that musical montage anyway so that was rather handy timing as well !!

 

Most of the time, it's good for British speedway that Sky Sports still want to show it on their channels but there's undoubtedly also the awkward trade-off that when the weather behaves the way it did tonight, you'll end up with the kind of sequence we all saw tonight for the reasons I've just explained ... it's then up to everyone individually to decide whether it's worth the skewed priorities we've all witnessed amid this awkward weather this evening.

 

It was nothing to do with Ronnie Russell. This is half the trouble with the forum, people who weren't in the pits don't have all the facts and decide to invent what they don't know.

Edited September 2, 2014 by Daytripper

[teaboy279]

I completely agree with the post that said about sending a couple of riders out to ride laps (not race) to develop the track. As much as getting a result I think the promoters wanted to get to heat 10 to avoid handing cash back to fans. If a football match was abandoned after 80 minutes everyone gets full re admission tickets. Don't think I have ever seen a match abandoned with 4 riders at the tapes, when you consider the fact the rain had stopped and the track was better then it was two races earlier when the track was deemed safe it makes the abandonment even more baffling. Was the track even graded after the resumption? All being said a part of me was smiling at Poole getting shafted after the way they entered the play offs last year. But the real loser is speedway credibility.

We should only have match officials making decisions (including ex riders who have risen poor conditions) as riders will always think a track is unsafe if it benefits them and say it's rideable if that suits also.

[Daytripper]

Are you for real? It was quite clearly Lakeside who were on the fiddle here. How then they call it off like that just because they have 3 points?

it.

"They" didn't call it off. Mick Bates did.

 

"Quite clearly"? You weren't in the pits so you don't know who Mick Bates spoke to before, firstly continuing after heat 7,then taking the decision to call it of. By all means express an opinion but do try to base it on a few facts.

Are you for real? It was quite clearly Lakeside who were on the fiddle here. How then they call it off like that just because they have 3 points?

it.

"They" didn't call it off. Mick Bates did.

 

"Quite clearly"? You weren't in the pits so you don't know who Mick Bates spoke to before, firstly continuing after heat 7,then taking the decision to call it of. By all means express an opinion but do try to base it on a few facts.

One thing in common. At both meetings when the cameras honed in on the crucial dscussions about whether to carry on the unmistakeable features of Ronnie Russell loomed in the background. Given he was not the meeting steward, does anyone know why he is at every Sky meeting?

Because he is TerryRussell's brother

Is Pearson right, the team winning can call a meeting off? I always assumed the track officials were the ones to call a meeting off, rather than any one team?I know, I am amazed if that is the new speedway ruling.

Pearson was wrong, you are right. People on here seem to have swallowed the Pearson line though. That's not to suggest that Sky have no influence on the decision though.

[stratton]

I think that may be my last speedway meeting. After 40 years of supporting the sport I think tonight may be the last straw. I have no problem with a meeting being called off if the track is unsafe, but tonight's events are an insult to myself, and every other person who paid money to see the meeting.First we pay £3 for a programme that's actually 3 weeks out of date with a racecard insert in it, after queuing because the turnstiles were shut. By the way, no rain off tickets were issued, so if an earlier call off had occured how would we get our reduced admission next time?Then after the unavoidable rainfall, we are asked to stand around for ages whilst track work is done, and they say it's raceable, then have 3 races, with actual passing, only to call off the match with the riders at the tapes for the next heat, just because a result is now declarable. The track was in no worse condition then than it had been for the previous heat. If anything it was improving.As others have said, this is no different to the disgraceful farce at Belle Vue v Poole last year. Add in the ever more diluted standard of the so called Elite League, the ludicrous numbers of guests this season, the apalling facilities at most tracks and a whole host of other factors, and it's no wonder the sport is losing fans in droves.I haven't missed a meeting at Lakeside for many years, and my reward for being a loyal paying supporter is to increasingly have the micky taken out of me by the promotors and powers that be. Bottom line? The paying fans matter not one jot to the people making the decisions. If we're stupid enough to keep paying to be treated like s**t, then the people running speedway are more than happy to keep taking our money.Well not mine, not any more.

I agree and i have had anough myself, i am seriously considering not going on Thursday night against Wolves.Maybe i will get used to not going who knows?i can look on the updates instead the sport now is at an all time low in the EL and i just don't enjoy it anymore.

[BritPete]

Those last couple of races were quite good,actually, and I think they should water the track like this every week.

[Gavan]

Middlo yet again takes to twitter and opens his mouth befire thinking. Calls it a shambles that shouldn't have got to heat 10 because of the safety of the riders and the fans. He is getting absolutly and quite rightly blasted as he said none of this at Belle Vue. He is right that it should have been called off but he wasn't concerned last year. Someone needs to tell the hypocritical clown to stop posting on there

[foreverblue]

Middlo yet again takes to twitter and opens his mouth befire thinking. Calls it a shambles that shouldn't have got to heat 10 because of the safety of the riders and the fans. He is getting absolutly and quite rightly blasted as he said none of this at Belle Vue. He is right that it should have been called off but he wasn't concerned last year. Someone needs to tell the hypocritical clown to stop posting on there

Perhaps he realised belle vue shouldnt have happened either but if that is the case he should say so

[dorset delight]

Middlo yet again takes to twitter and opens his mouth befire thinking. Calls it a shambles that shouldn't have got to heat 10 because of the safety of the riders and the fans. He is getting absolutly and quite rightly blasted as he said none of this at Belle Vue. He is right that it should have been called off but he wasn't concerned last year. Someone needs to tell the hypocritical clown to stop posting on there

 

And he is right it was a shambles,the meeting should have been called off after the downpour.Because you can bet your life if sky had not been there it would have been.When riders cant see after the first bend and throwing their goggles off ala Bridger does that not tell you something.

 

Lakeside got the points far enough i have no problem with that that's the rules now,but what i do have a problem with is Sky almost insisting they carry on.Of course Middlo is going to whinge he was losing ALL managers and captains are the same,you keep going on about Belle Vue but what about the Swindon meeting earlier in the season,Rosco and Batchelor coudn't get it called off quickly enough because Swindon were winning but the same two had a whinge a couple of weeks before against Coventry wait for it because they were losing.But you never mention that meeting do you,i wonder why,oh hang on i didn't involve Poole

[oldace]

Not read previous posts, so don't know if this has been mentioned, but I feel the match was only planned to get to heat 10 before they'ddecide to blow time. Too easy to get to a tenth race touchdown and call a halt, something Pearson always harps on about reaching.

 

 

Thing is though it is now almost considered that a match is 10 heats. If the weather is nice and the riders have nothing better to do for the evening they might just put on an additional 5 bonus races but heat 10 is the holy grail.

 

It beggars belief in truth that they keep doing it. It cant have escaped the notice of the promoters that hardly anyone goes to watch anymore, and getting less year on year with these kind of situations a major factor and yet they keep on doing it

[Steve0]

I think that may be my last speedway meeting. After 40 years of supporting the sport I think tonight may be the last straw. I have no problem with a meeting being called off if the track is unsafe, but tonight's events are an insult to myself, and every other person who paid money to see the meeting.First we pay £3 for a programme that's actually 3 weeks out of date with a racecard insert in it, after queuing because the turnstiles were shut. By the way, no rain off tickets were issued, so if an earlier call off had occured how would we get our reduced admission next time?Then after the unavoidable rainfall, we are asked to stand around for ages whilst track work is done, and they say it's raceable, then have 3 races, with actual passing, only to call off the match with the riders at the tapes for the next heat, just because a result is now declarable. The track was in no worse condition then than it had been for the previous heat. If anything it was improving.As others have said, this is no different to the disgraceful farce at Belle Vue v Poole last year. Add in the ever more diluted standard of the so called Elite League, the ludicrous numbers of guests this season, the apalling facilities at most tracks and a whole host of other factors, and it's no wonder the sport is losing fans in droves.I haven't missed a meeting at Lakeside for many years, and my reward for being a loyal paying supporter is to increasingly have the micky taken out of me by the promotors and powers that be. Bottom line? The paying fans matter not one jot to the people making the decisions. If we're stupid enough to keep paying to be treated like s**t, then the people running speedway are more than happy to keep taking our money.Well not mine, not any more.

I couldn't have put it better myself

[E I Addio]

 

And he is right it was a shambles,the meeting should have been called off after the downpour.Because you can bet your life if sky had not been there it would have been.When riders cant see after the first bend and throwing their goggles off ala Bridger does that not tell you something.

 

Lakeside got the points far enough i have no problem with that that's the rules now,but what i do have a problem with is Sky almost insisting they carry on.Of course Middlo is going to whinge he was losing ALL managers and captains are the same,you keep going on about Belle Vue but what about the Swindon meeting earlier in the season,Rosco and Batchelor coudn't get it called off quickly enough because Swindon were winning but the same two had a whinge a couple of weeks before against Coventry wait for it because they were losing.But you never mention that meeting do you,i wonder why,oh hang on i didn't involve Poole

 

 

I tend to agree with that DD

 

Muddlo doesn't do himself any favours because he has got an unfortunate way of expressing himself most of the time, especially on Twitter but as you say Rosco and Swindon are not exactly squeaky clean either and its difficult to ignore Sky's involvement. They do have a big say in the way the match is run. Even if Muddlo had made no comment at all we would still have had the same situation, with a decision to be taken about a rain-affected track and a lot of money invested in a TV broadcast.

 

Unfortunately the rain could hardly have come at worse point in the match and there is not much anybody can do about that.

[hans fan]

 

 

Thing is though it is now almost considered that a match is 10 heats. If the weather is nice and the riders have nothing better to do for the evening they might just put on an additional 5 bonus races but heat 10 is the holy grail.

 

It beggars belief in truth that they keep doing it. It cant have escaped the notice of the promoters that hardly anyone goes to watch anymore, and getting less year on year with these kind of situations a major factor and yet they keep on doing it

we all keep blaming the promoters (im not 1 for sticking up for them)...... but look at last night riders at the tapes , it LOOKED watts hissy fit at bates and co got it stopped

[Star Lady]

After all the mickey taking last night, and boy did I enjoy seeing Karma giving Dorset a visit

 

A serious question - has Sky's involvement honestly been good for speedway?

 

Crowds have gone down.

Rules have been changed to suit them.

Too many outside influences affecting decisions.

TV audiences see empty terraces

Former regulars now get their fix from TV (hold my hands up to that one)

Debacles like last night are shown to the world - would you go as a newbie after seeing that on TV.

 

Just asking.

Edited September 2, 2014 by Star Lady

[Grachan]

 

 

I tend to agree with that DD

 

Muddlo doesn't do himself any favours because he has got an unfortunate way of expressing himself most of the time, especially on Twitter but as you say Rosco and Swindon are not exactly squeaky clean either and its difficult to ignore Sky's involvement. They do have a big say in the way the match is run. Even if Muddlo had made no comment at all we would still have had the same situation, with a decision to be taken about a rain-affected track and a lot of money invested in a TV broadcast.

 

Unfortunately the rain could hardly have come at worse point in the match and there is not much anybody can do about that.

 

At the end of the day, each individual team is going to try and get themselves a result. The question is how can an individual promotion or management be so influential in getting a meeting called off.

 

This HAS to be the judgement of the referee and nobody else. It seemed to me that it was purely down to the side that had a vested interest in the score at that time that last night's meeting was called off. Had they run heat 11 and Poole had scored a 5-1 the Lakeside would have lost a point. The riders were there and ready to go.

 

It looked like it was the decision of Davy Watt to call that match off (probably at the behest of his team manager/promoter). How can that be allowed?

[Red Panda]

You know what annoys me about last night.............the fact that you guys are going on about Poole setting a precedent at Belle Vue and Lakeside playing Poole at their own game but there is a big difference.............the meeting at Belle Vue last year should never have gone ahead............it only did because Sky and the referee insisted it did.........you could see no one wanted to ride it............

 

Last night (I was at work til 8 so got in as it was starting to rain there) and the meeting at Coventry the week before goes to show its all what Sky want and stuff the paying public..............

 

Its time promoters actually took notice of what the fans want rather than just going ahead and running/continuing meetings when as last night proved it was a huge health and safety risk to do so.........

 

Oh and for the record as the ref was Dan Holt and he has shown he is totally anti Poole on Sky in the past its no wonder it carried on............

 

RP

[barrow boy]

I agree with all the posts that criticize last night's farce. What gets my goat is that it is fine for the winning team to want to continue to heat 10 to get the match points but then to refuse to continue even when the conditions are no different and the losing team still has a mathematical chance of getting some reward for being forced to race against their wishes. If it was OK to race heat 10 it should have been OK to continue until the match was either decided or the referee decided enough was enough. Obviously the match should not have proceeded past the downpour but it did because Lakeside wanted it to but having ridden on they should have been compelled to continue to a conclusion. I was also amazed at Neil Middleditch's hypocrisy when considering his stance at Belle Vue last season, the outcome of which we all know got Poole into the play offs and subsequently won them the league title. I was also riled by Davey Watt's stance . He is renouned for not wanting to ride when conditions are difficult but he reluctantly did so but only until Lakeside reached heat 10 more than 6 points in front. Such farces must be prevented in future.