25yearfan Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 (edited) No you have not come up with valid points. You made a very spurious and negative comment about rider availability and when challenged then fell back onto claiming that the local residents wouldn't allow it. These aren't valid points, they're clutching at straws to try to win an argument and appear clever. It's failed. Why can't you just celebrate the possibility of us regaining a track and not look for every negative point you can find? I lost my track forty years ago and if someone was looking to replace it now I'd also treat such unnecessary negativity with the contempt it deserves. Think of the MK fans not your own ego. The poster has come up with valid points, just they aren't yours which is no doubt heavily influenced by your involvement with the well known guy who makes big statements about opening up tracks but apart from Wimbledon and Rye House which both needed bailing out by others who could actually do the job, hasn't come up with the goods including my old team Norwich a couple of years ago. Anyway like I said before, the guy in question wouldn't be allowed a licence anyway! I agree that if anyone listened to the realists and indeed your own sanity, no one would ever open speedway tracks given the perilous nature of speedway in this Country and the incredible amounts of red tape you have to get through when applying for planning permission, but it does happen every now and again and can be successfull. But to do so you you need incredibly deep pockets, good business skills, good people skills and not get carried away romancing about what you are going to do, all aspects your mate aparently struggles with. I lost my original team Norwich Stars 50 years ago this October so while I've heard it many times before about Norwich speedway reopening I kept an open mind about you mates plans 2-3 years back despite his poor record in the past but unfortunately my fears came true! As for Milton Keynes, its well known it struggled for crowds over 20 years at two different venues and it done extremely well to survive as long as it did. Like I said before Milton Keynes was a track and team that needed the 3rd Division forming 10 - 15 years earlier than it did the same as the likes of Workington, Barrow, Birmingham at the Wheels project, Ellesmere Port and the various training tracks of the 1980's like Iwade, Felton, Farringdon, and Matchams Park. Mildenhall and Stoke probably wouldn't have shut in the early 1990's if the 3rd Division had been around then as well! I really hope that we see another track built in Milton Keynes but the above factors need to be considered, though its not a dead cert that reopening tracks where the sport struggled in the past means they will struggle again. Mildenhall shut in 1989 and 1992 probably because of struggling to make 2nd tier racing viable. Now Mildenhall get decent crowds, levels that many higher League tracks would be envious off! Scunthorpe had a similar history to Milton Keynes when they ran from 1971-85 in that they always struggled for crowds at two different venues. But since reopening in 2005 under the very astute promotion of Rob Godfrey (nows there a proper promotor!) it has been viable due to the training schools, stock cars and tight budgeting plan used by Godfrey. Workington shut in 1981 due to poor crowds and then reopened in 1985 for open meetings but fared the same as 1981. Workington looked like a venue that would never see speedway ever again but fast forward to 1999 and the multi track promotor reopened and Workington was for a few years one of the best supported speedways in the Country and although crowds have gone down it is still a viable operation today! Good luck to the new track plans in Milton Keynes! Edited August 31, 2014 by 25yearfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedibee Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 The poster has come up with valid points, just they aren't yours which is no doubt heavily influenced by your involvement with the well known guy who makes big statements about opening up tracks but apart from Wimbledon and Rye House which both needed bailing out by others who could actually do the job, hasn't come up with the goods including my old team Norwich a couple of years ago. Anyway like I said before, the guy in question wouldn't be allowed a licence anyway! I agree that if anyone listened to the realists and indeed your own sanity, no one would ever open speedway tracks given the perilous nature of speedway in this Country and the incredible amounts of red tape you have to get through when applying for planning permission, but it does happen every now and again and can be successfull. But to do so you you need incredibly deep pockets, good business skills, good people skills and not get carried away romancing about what you are going to do, all aspects your mate aparently struggles with. I lost my original team Norwich Stars 50 years ago this October so while I've heard it many times before about Norwich speedway reopening I kept an open mind about you mates plans 2-3 years back despite his poor record in the past but unfortunately my fears came true! As for Milton Keynes, its well known it struggled for crowds over 20 years at two different venues and it done extremely well to survive as long as it did. Like I said before Milton Keynes was a track and team that needed the 3rd Division forming 10 - 15 years earlier than it did the same as the likes of Workington, Barrow, Birmingham at the Wheels project, Ellesmere Port and the various training tracks of the 1980's like Iwade, Felton, Farringdon, and Matchams Park. Mildenhall and Stoke probably wouldn't have shut in the early 1990's if the 3rd Division had been around then as well! I really hope that we see another track built in Milton Keynes but above the above factors need to be considered, though its not a dead cert that reopening tracks where the sport struggled in the past means they will struggle again. Mildenhall shut in 1989 and 1992 probably because of struggling to make 2nd tier racing viable. Now Mildenhall get decent crowds, levels that many higher League tracks would be envious off! Scunthorpe had a similar history to Milton Keynes when they ran from 1971-85 in that they always struggled for crowds at two different venues. But since reopening in 2005 under the very astute promotion of Rob Godfrey (nows there a proper promotor!) it has been viable due to the training schools, stock cars and tight budgeting plan used by Godfrey. Workington shut in 1981 due to poor crowds and then reopened in 1985 for open meetings but fared the same as 1981. Workington looked like a venue that would nevere see speedway ever again but fast forward to 1999 and the multi track promotor reopened and Workington was for a few years one of the best supported speedways in the Country and although crowds have gone down it is still a viable operation today! Good luck to the new track plans in Milton Keynes! Coventry Knightd !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 Would be interesting to know the people behind this before we get too excited. Too many chancers out there. In fact there's a few people who have a history of announcing the opening of new tracks but in reality doing no such thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeoBrummie Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 it won't be Alan Phillips that's for sure! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanr1 Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 I run a wholesale business in MK supplying to the construction industry, so as you can imagine I keep a close eye on any projects going on in the area including planning applications etc. We are based a stones throw from Elfield Park and I can't say I'm aware of this, hopefully it will become a reality though. Being up and running for next season sounds highly unlikely to me when they don't even have a track yet, I'm not trying to burst any bubbles but I can't help but think this doesn't sound quite right. If it is a reality then I would be happy to help out with some discounted goods for the new stadium and dish out some flyers on our busy trade counter when it's ready to open so if the promoters read this then please feel free to get in touch. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 (edited) If it is a reality then I would be happy to help out with some discounted goods for the new stadium and dish out some flyers on our busy trade counter when it's ready to open so if the promoters read this then please feel free to get in touch. This is the reason why I love speedway. Not just for the excitment of racing, but the way fans want to help out at every opportunity. Edited August 30, 2014 by Deano 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mixy230 Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 So where is the track likely to be ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Leslie Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 So where is the track likely to be ? Aberdeen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 it won't be Alan Phillips that's for sure! Steve Ribbons ?? I would have thought that if the MDL team were leasing the name "knights" and they would have had permission from the BSPA to run a speedway franchise, then the BSPA would be aware of that set up. Then in another conversation the new separate promotion have had talks with the BSPA to open a new track. Therefore in conclusion the BSPA must have known both parties. Unless I'm missing something? The reason I asked is, is the the current team just using a name and being run by a group enthusiasts running a team with no assets or track. Is there someone from the last promotion, who owns the title or has the business promotion has since folded, therefore it is fair game for everyone to use "Knights" as it doesn't belong to anyone. If no-one owns it, they would be free to use it as the current nomads would not have title ownership on the name they were using. I said "why" because why should the BSPA need to know if a private company(the last promotion) is still a company and still running, if they are no longer involved at all in speedway. Surely the BSPA can't, or don't need to know, the commercial status of every track promotion that is dormant and not involved in current speedway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
le sorcier Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 This would be an absolute dream come true for me if this was to happen!! I can only hope this is the case? I must admit I find it staggering that people assume they won't get the crowds just because they didn't 20-25 years ago!! In 1981 the population of the Borough of Milton Keynes was around 120,000. Now it is over 250,000 I believe? The place is unrecognisable to what it was. Yuo may as well be talking about 2 different places!! I think it would be a good catchment area for NL racing at least right now. The nearest tracks are Coventry, Peterborough, Mildenhall, Leicester and Rye House. They are all pretty much 1 hour away minimum. I'll be there anyway so thats an attendance of 1 so far..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 Steve Ribbons ?? The reason I asked is, is the the current team just using a name and being run by a group enthusiasts running a team with no assets or track. Is there someone from the last promotion, who owns the title or has the business promotion has since folded, therefore it is fair game for everyone to use "Knights" as it doesn't belong to anyone. If no-one owns it, they would be free to use it as the current nomads would not have title ownership on the name they were using. I said "why" because why should the BSPA need to know if a private company(the last promotion) is still a company and still running, if they are no longer involved at all in speedway. Surely the BSPA can't, or don't need to know, the commercial status of every track promotion that is dormant and not involved in current speedway. I hope it isn't the man in bold, if it is I can't believe he'd have the cheek to try again. Anyway, I'll hold my hands up as you will know more about the commercial running of speedway more than I'll ever know. Fingers crossed you'll be making the trip to brum again next season (be good to catch up again ) the good news is both fanchises working together for one goal. Just for food for thought though, Tony Mole bought the rights to Birmingham Speedway while it was at the wheels project and he closed it at the end of the season. Someone somewhere may have done the same when Milton Keynes folded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan_Jones Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 The reason I asked is, is the the current team just using a name and being run by a group enthusiasts running a team with no assets or track. Is there someone from the last promotion, who owns the title or has the business promotion has since folded, therefore it is fair game for everyone to use "Knights" as it doesn't belong to anyone. If no-one owns it, they would be free to use it as the current nomads would not have title ownership on the name they were using. I said "why" because why should the BSPA need to know if a private company(the last promotion) is still a company and still running, if they are no longer involved at all in speedway. Surely the BSPA can't, or don't need to know, the commercial status of every track promotion that is dormant and not involved in current speedway. From the Speedway Regulations; "These rules cover the MIDLAND Development League (MDL) & NORTHERN Junior League (NJL). 21.1 A prior Application to use an historical name (ie. a defunct team) or alternative team name (other than the name of the Clubs staging track), must be made to the BSPA. 21.1.1 Should a Club be permitted to use an historical name, then the Club will be required to have an Associate registered to administer that Club." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 From the Speedway Regulations; "These rules cover the MIDLAND Development League (MDL) & NORTHERN Junior League (NJL). 21.1 A prior Application to use an historical name (ie. a defunct team) or alternative team name (other than the name of the Clubs staging track), must be made to the BSPA. 21.1.1 Should a Club be permitted to use an historical name, then the Club will be required to have an Associate registered to administer that Club." I am just wondering, how the BSPA could/would know if a defunct promotion was still a company, and had the rights to use the name. In particular, if the remains of the defunct promotion had sold out to an unknown person. Never mind. As long as the new promotion is allowed to use the Knights, as traditional team names mean a lot to all fans,e.g, Reading Racers/BSI. I hope it isn't the man in bold, if it is I can't believe he'd have the cheek to try again. Anyway, I'll hold my hands up as you will know more about the commercial running of speedway more than I'll ever know. Fingers crossed you'll be making the trip to brum again next season (be good to catch up again ) the good news is both fanchises working together for one goal. Just for food for thought though, Tony Mole bought the rights to Birmingham Speedway while it was at the wheels project and he closed it at the end of the season. Someone somewhere may have done the same when Milton Keynes folded. I will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan_Jones Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 I am just wondering, how the BSPA could/would know if a defunct promotion was still a company, and had the rights to use the name. In particular, if the remains of the defunct promotion had sold out to an unknown person. Never mind. As long as the new promotion is allowed to use the Knights, as traditional team names mean a lot to all fans,e.g, Reading Racers/BSI. Don't all promoters licences revert to the BSPA when a team ceases to operate? The Isle of Wight promoting company still exists but their licence was 'put on ice' when they decided not to compete this season. I assume that if they decided to return next season they would be subject to checks on their suitability to promote the same as any new promotion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 Don't all promoters licences revert to the BSPA when a team ceases to operate? The Isle of Wight promoting company still exists but their licence was 'put on ice' when they decided not to compete this season. I assume that if they decided to return next season they would be subject to checks on their suitability to promote the same as any new promotion. Yes, I would assume they would. I was thinking more longer term than the likes of IOW, who owns the original company and what rights they had acquired and owned. It could have been passed on or bought out, but I don't know of any procedure or any interest to monitor every company that once ran speedway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveallan81 Posted August 31, 2014 Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 Aberdeen "Tonight I can reveal to you that definite moves are afoot to bring speedway to Aberdeen next season with a number of open meetings. The persons responsible have already got a stadium which will be ideal for the sport and are currently trying to get planning permission." Dave Thomson (Glasgow programme editorial 27th May 1983) Sadly planning permission was not to be forthcoming and the Northern track lights of old Aberdeen remain darkened to this day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityrebel Posted August 31, 2014 Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 Coventry Knightd !!!great minds think alike!, I said the same thing to my mates at eastbourne last night. Two years in the NL, then the bees move in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinmauger Posted August 31, 2014 Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 "no one would ever open speedway tracks given the perilous nature of speedway in this Country and the incredible amounts of red tape you have to get through when applying for planning permission, but it does happen every now and again and can be successfull. But to do so you you need incredibly deep pockets, good business skills, good people skills and not get carried away romancing about what you are going to do" And the most incredible self-belief, confidence, focus, patience, vision, an extremely think skin and a little bit of luck. Simples really. Notice I didn't say the odd loose screw though that may help also (!) Hope the potential Milton Keynes project happens, new tracks are always welcome and postiive news.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triple.H. Posted August 31, 2014 Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 Wasn't Terry Cheyney the last promoter in MK. Many tracks used his companies programme printing enterprise afterwards unless I'm making 2+2=5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike.Butler Posted August 31, 2014 Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 great minds think alike!, I said the same thing to my mates at eastbourne last night. Two years in the NL, then the bees move in! you should have introduced us.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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