Wackie Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 Looking at the top 8 in the GP as it stands now, who outside of it really deserves another chance with a Wildcard next year? Hampel, the one personally I feel deserves a wildcard. I get the impression that Hancock may retire, from the GP's at least, at the end of this season, that would open up the No.9 place which if it goes to Jonsson negates the need for a wildcard to be wasted on a token Swede. As much as I don't like Ward as a person, looking at the bottom half of this years GP field, I would suggest that the series needs him, and at least one other big hitter next season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sommelier Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 I can grasp it very well thank you. I have explained my reasoning behind my arguments - have you I WILL explaine my reasons why at this moment in time on his current form why i think Ward should get a wild card. I spend thousands of pounds EVERY year watching GPs, maybe you only have your sky subscription to pay ? So i like to watch the best riders in the world. Personally i couldn't give a tuppenny f**k if he robbed his own granny, & i'ii tell you what, if Ward fell off the radar, within a week i would be saying Darcy who!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 Looking at the top 8 in the GP as it stands now, who outside of it really deserves another chance with a Wildcard next year? Hampel, the one personally I feel deserves a wildcard. I get the impression that Hancock may retire, from the GP's at least, at the end of this season, that would open up the No.9 place which if it goes to Jonsson negates the need for a wildcard to be wasted on a token Swede. As much as I don't like Ward as a person, looking at the bottom half of this years GP field, I would suggest that the series needs him, and at least one other big hitter next season. If the series were to finish with standings as they currently are, I think the 4 wildcards would go to Hampel, Emil, Ward and Lindback. Next in line I suggest would be one of MJJ/Kildermand/Jonsson or possibly Zmarzlick/Pawlicki. The following may change that: Emil - if he doesn't want a place Hampel- if two poles qualify from the GP challenge Ward - can't see anything based on current top 8. Realstically will only miss out if Bathc somehow made top8, holder missed out on top8 due to injury, or there was a spate of injuries to top riders causing them to fall out of top 8 *e.g.Tai/Nicki/Greg/Puk) Lindback - if two different swedes qualified (from challenge or jonsson making top 8) If one of the above didn't require/want a wildcard, then I suspect Jonsson would be next in line (assuming two swedes not already in). Next I suspect either MJJ/Kildermand. A young Pole wildcard is possible, but probably unlikely as i can't see Janowski failing to make top8, or the GP challenge failing to ahve a pole within the top. Ideal would be" current top8 finnish as they are, Lindback, Pawlicki and another from the GP Challenge (Harris would be nice), plus wildcards to Ward, EMil, Lindback and Kildermand. that would leave only Vaculik, G Laguta and Zmarzlik of riders with a genuine claim to be currently top 15 in the world out of the series - and much as I'd like to see Laguta in it, he frankly doesn't re to participate deserve one given his failure to participate in qualifying for a number of years, and late withdrwal from SWC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 Surely to God Jonsson cannot have another chance?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 You'd hope not, BUT there seems to be a tendency to want two swedes in the series. If Lindback makes it through the GP challenge, then I would certainly rather see Killer/Zmarzlik in than a token extra swede - even if it means having four Poles. Back in the day I'm sure the GP series (had it existed) would have accomodated four Danes (hans, eirik, Jan O, Tommy) or four Brits (Collins, Lee, Simmons, Louis) or Yanks (Ermolenko,King, Morans) though in fairness I'd argue talent was spread across fewer nations in the 70s/80s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 FOUR Aussies ... Adams, Crump, Lyon and Wiltshire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salty Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 FOUR Aussies ... Adams, Crump, Lyon and Wiltshire In 2003 you can add Sullivan to those 4 - though that was when there were 22 riders in the series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 (edited) You'd hope not, BUT there seems to be a tendency to want two swedes in the series. If Lindback makes it through the GP challenge, then I would certainly rather see Killer/Zmarzlik in than a token extra swede - even if it means having four Poles. Back in the day I'm sure the GP series (had it existed) would have accomodated four Danes (hans, eirik, Jan O, Tommy) or four Brits (Collins, Lee, Simmons, Louis) or Yanks (Ermolenko,King, Morans) though in fairness I'd argue talent was spread across fewer nations in the 70s/80s. But does that not tell you all you need to know about the Qualifying System for Speedway's World Championship. Edited July 26, 2015 by The White Knight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reviresco Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 Ideal would be" current top8 finnish as they are, Lindback, Pawlicki and another from the GP Challenge (Harris would be nice), plus wildcards to Ward, EMil, Lindback and Kildermand. that would leave only Vaculik, G Laguta and Zmarzlik of riders with a genuine claim to be currently top 15 in the world out of the series - and much as I'd like to see Laguta in it, he frankly doesn't re to participate deserve one given his failure to participate in qualifying for a number of years, and late withdrwal from SWC. Not Hampel? IMO, surely a regular, loyal, contributor to the GP series who has been runner-up twice and also finished third and was placed third in this year's series before his injury deserves to be considered in the current top 15 in the world and 'deserves' a wild card for 2016 ahead of any of Ward, Emil, Lindback or Kildemand? But I see that you have Lindback in twice - from the GP Challenge and as a wildcard, so maybe you meant Jarek and not Antonio as a wildcard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 TWK - all sports have a tendency to want a certain number of competitors/nations from different parts of the world, even if it means some weaker competitors at the expense of stronger ones - Olympics, football world cup etc. In speedway, this historically this was far more of an issue - host nations being given four seeded riders, 5 no hopers from the continental final (or 4 plus Muller) etc. Can I ask you - did you complain when Peter Collins was seeded to the 77 inter-continental final? The current system is arguably the best their has been in terms of a) ensuring the strongest possible field fairness (i.e. relative easyness/toughness to qualify, irrespective of nationality). at most i would say 1/2 riders each year may reach the series based on nationality. Not Hampel? IMO, surely a regular, loyal, contributor to the GP series who has been runner-up twice and also finished third and was placed third in this year's series before his injury deserves to be considered in the current top 15 in the world and 'deserves' a wild card for 2016 ahead of any of Ward, Emil, Lindback or Kildemand? But I see that you have Lindback in twice - from the GP Challenge and as a wildcard, so maybe you meant Jarek and not Antonio as a wildcard. Yes I did, sorry typo on my part. Hampel IMHO is a certainty for a WC, unless three Poles are alreayd qualified (and even in that case I would give him one). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sommelier Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 Not Hampel? IMO, surely a regular, loyal, contributor to the GP series who has been runner-up twice and also finished third and was placed third in this year's series before his injury deserves to be considered in the current top 15 in the world and 'deserves' a wild card for 2016 ahead of any of Ward, Emil, Lindback or Kildemand? But I see that you have Lindback in twice - from the GP Challenge and as a wildcard, so maybe you meant Jarek and not Antonio as a wildcard. I think Hampel should, will get a wild card Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 In all honesty whka1 - I have never liked the 'seeding' System. It just seems that these days the World Championship is decided more on 'Business needs' than on Speedway. That is the way I see it anyhow. I think Hampel should, will get a wild card As this is the System that we have - so do I. He, at least, deserves it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reviresco Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 Yes I did, sorry typo on my part. Hampel IMHO is a certainty for a WC, unless three Poles are alreayd qualified (and even in that case I would give him one). Thank you for confirming my 'Kiwi' friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 But there are less "seeds", or riders in the series due to nationality now than there were historically. To clarify - did you complain when pc was seeded through to the 77 ic final? What about when penhall was seeded to the 82 overseas final? Are you pleased that the current system is a lot fairer than the old one? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozrik Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 FOUR Aussies ... Adams, Crump, Lyon and Wiltshire In 2002 GP season we had four riders Crump 2nd, Sullivan 3rd, Adams 4th, and Todd Wiltshire who competed in the whole series. Incidently those four riders are our best ever WTC side having won the WTC final in 99, 00, and 02. At the Aussie GP in 2002 Jason Lyons, Steve Johnston, and Mick Poole, were seeded into the elimination heats (without success) giving us seven riders in the field for the Australian GP. I can't recall Jason Lyons competing in a full GP season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sommelier Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 In 2002 GP season we had four riders Crump 2nd, Sullivan 3rd, Adams 4th, and Todd Wiltshire who competed in the whole series. Incidently those four riders are our best ever WTC side having won the WTC final in 99, 00, and 02. At the Aussie GP in 2002 Jason Lyons, Steve Johnston, and Mick Poole, were seeded into the elimination heats (without success) giving us seven riders in the field for the Australian GP. I can't recall Jason Lyons competing in a full GP season. 2003 Lyons did a full season in the GPs, i think ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salty Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 (edited) In 2002 GP season we had four riders Crump 2nd, Sullivan 3rd, Adams 4th, and Todd Wiltshire who competed in the whole series. Incidently those four riders are our best ever WTC side having won the WTC final in 99, 00, and 02. At the Aussie GP in 2002 Jason Lyons, Steve Johnston, and Mick Poole, were seeded into the elimination heats (without success) giving us seven riders in the field for the Australian GP. I can't recall Jason Lyons competing in a full GP season. Five Aussies in 2003 (out of 22)...including Jason Lyons https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Speedway_Grand_Prix Edited July 27, 2015 by salty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pugwash Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 Thus putting someone else out of the GPs who had behaved themselves - and not been prepared to endanger others by Riding whilst over the Alcohol Limit. There was nothing unfortunate about it. He knew what he was doing. Ward admitted to drinking too much - nothing unfortunate about that. He was unfortunate to be caught. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 In the 50s/60s, the reigning World Champion was seeded direct to the final. In 1959, Barry Briggs, as champion, was seeded to the final without having ridden all season as he had been in dispute with Wimbledon and had remained in New Zealand. He still managed to come third. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 In the 50s/60s, the reigning World Champion was seeded direct to the final. In 1959, Barry Briggs, as champion, was seeded to the final without having ridden all season as he had been in dispute with Wimbledon and had remained in New Zealand. He still managed to come third. 1970 was the worst example with 6 Poles seeded straight to the final. In the main they were, by the world standards of the day, pretty average riders as well. Even right up to the 90s 5 places were given over to sub standard continental riders, although they did have a qualification process for those places Despite the cobblers often posted on here the current system of qualifiers and wildcards is the fairest selection process ever used and pretty much guarantees the best 15 riders in the world contest the series, Harris aside. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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