TheReturn Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 (edited) Simon Wigg was banned in 1985 but was allowed to be a part of the selection process for 1986. Are you suggesting it is corrupt to have allowed him in. No problem with that, so in your words if Ward is allowed back in the selection process, that starts with the qualification system which means we wont see him in the GPs until 2017 at the earliest. The thing is, if Ward had come out and said 'sorry I made a mistake, it won't happen again' I would be more inclined to say he's served his time so time to move on and back his wild card entry. But to my knowledge he hasn't, so screw him, let him qualify the long way. If a compromise is needed, give him a seeded place in the GP qualifier, but he should not be given a place in 2016 unless he earns it. Same with Emil, I want him in the GPs but he walked away from them, so if he wants to come back GP Qualification minimum, if not full qualification route. Edited July 22, 2015 by TheReturn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 No problem with that, so in your words if Ward is allowed back in the selection process, that starts with the qualification system which means we wont see him in the GPs until 2017 at the earliest. The thing is, if Ward had come out and said 'sorry I made a mistake, it won't happen again' I would be more inclined to say he's served his time so time to move on and back his wild card entry. But to my knowledge he hasn't, so screw him, let him qualify the long way. If a compromise is needed, give him a seeded place in the GP qualifier, but he should not be given a place in 2016 unless he earns it. Same with Emil, I want him in the GPs but he walked away from them, so if he wants to come back GP Qualification minimum, if not full qualification route. I don't really agree with this either - but - it would certainly be a lot better than just giving/gifting/fiddling him a place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 (edited) No problem with that, so in your words if Ward is allowed back in the selection process, that starts with the qualification system which means we wont see him in the GPs until 2017 at the earliest. The thing is, if Ward had come out and said 'sorry I made a mistake, it won't happen again' I would be more inclined to say he's served his time so time to move on and back his wild card entry. But to my knowledge he hasn't, so screw him, let him qualify the long way. If a compromise is needed, give him a seeded place in the GP qualifier, but he should not be given a place in 2016 unless he earns it. Same with Emil, I want him in the GPs but he walked away from them, so if he wants to come back GP Qualification minimum, if not full qualification route. No because selection for the SGP is via 3 routes. Top 8 of this years SGP. Well he can't satisfy that criteria Top 3 in the SGP Challenge. Yes he could be wildcarded into that and gain entry that way but should he fail it would be harder to justify a wildcard pick 4 Wildcard picks. These are riders who for whatever reason are not in the SGP but for either commercial or other reasons the organisers feel should be part of it. Ward could easily and justifiably be given one of these spots. Edited July 23, 2015 by Oldace 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 No because selection for the SGP is via 3 routes. Top 8 of this years SGP. Well he can satisfy that criteria Top 3 in the SGP Challenge. Yes he could be wildcarded into that and gain entry that way but should he fail it would be harder to justify a wildcard pick 4 Wildcard picks. These are riders who for whatever reason are not in the SGP but for either commercial or other reasons the organisers feel should be part of it. Ward could easily and justifiably be given one of these spots. Now we are getting to the hub of it. What about the morality of it though - or does that not matter any more? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 Now we are getting to the hub of it. What about the morality of it though - or does that not matter any more? Any more? why when did it ever. There are fewer picks now than in lots of post war world finals and the picks these days are at least competitive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fullbore Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 Now we are getting to the hub of it. What about the morality of it though - or does that not matter any more? Forget the morality, shouldn't he show that he can keep his nose clean for a good period before being offered a place? Niamh 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 Forget the morality, shouldn't he show that he can keep his nose clean for a good period before being offered a place? Niamh That too. :approve: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 He's box office don't you know? At the end of the day is all they are worried about .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midland Red Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 No way should be be seeded into the 2015 Challenge He should go through the 2016 Challenge, although I can see some validity in him being given a wildcard for the GPs for 2016 - but not gatecrash the qualifiers which are under way 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheReturn Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 4 Wildcard picks. These are riders who for whatever reason are not in the SGP but for either commercial or other reasons the organisers feel should be part of it. Ward could easily and justifiably be given one of these spots. But when we start going down that route (ok I know BSI already do) it is no longer sport, it's a business. BSI have to run it like a business, the rest of us should view it like a sport and call BSI out when they forget the fact it is a sport. I hate the hosts getting seeded to the final for the SWC for the same reason and I hate the wildcards for the SGP (unless because of injury season before). Speedway is a sport (or should be), and the best in the world need to earn their right to be in the elite SGP. In Ward's case I have no doubt he will qualify, but that's the point, he should qualify (be that from scratch or at minimum SGP qualifier). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 But when we start going down that route (ok I know BSI already do) it is no longer sport, it's a business. BSI have to run it like a business, the rest of us should view it like a sport and call BSI out when they forget the fact it is a sport. I hate the hosts getting seeded to the final for the SWC for the same reason and I hate the wildcards for the SGP (unless because of injury season before). Speedway is a sport (or should be), and the best in the world need to earn their right to be in the elite SGP. In Ward's case I have no doubt he will qualify, but that's the point, he should qualify (be that from scratch or at minimum SGP qualifier). You say that but most motorsports are done with wildcards and payment entry. There very few AFAIK, that have qualifiers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawkins20 Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 But when we start going down that route (ok I know BSI already do) it is no longer sport, it's a business. BSI have to run it like a business, the rest of us should view it like a sport and call BSI out when they forget the fact it is a sport. I hate the hosts getting seeded to the final for the SWC for the same reason and I hate the wildcards for the SGP (unless because of injury season before). Speedway is a sport (or should be), and the best in the world need to earn their right to be in the elite SGP. In Ward's case I have no doubt he will qualify, but that's the point, he should qualify (be that from scratch or at minimum SGP qualifier). If the only way to get into the GP would be through qualifiers, we would get an even weaker lineup. One bad meeting and you are out of the qualification while weaker riders, track specialist can get through with a bit of luck. Then you can watch Harris, Zorro, Chrzanowski eating dirt for the whole GP season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OveFundinFan Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 If the only way to get into the GP would be through qualifiers, we would get an even weaker lineup. One bad meeting and you are out of the qualification while weaker riders, track specialist can get through with a bit of luck. Then you can watch Harris, Zorro, Chrzanowski eating dirt for the whole GP season. and isnt that what the GP Qualifier wild card is about - giving someone another chance who was already in the qualifiers but had a bad meeting, not someone who was over the alcohol limit 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 and isnt that what the GP Qualifier wild card is about - giving someone another chance who was already in the qualifiers but had a bad meeting, not someone who was over the alcohol limit Spot on OveFundin. :approve: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheReturn Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 If the only way to get into the GP would be through qualifiers, we would get an even weaker lineup. Tough... sport is meant to be a challenge and should not be about free passes. Weaker riders will either improve or drift away, it's what sport is all about. Giving those whose 'face fits' with certain people a free pass into the SGP is unfair on those who attempt to qualify. The only exception I make to that is when an existing SGP rider is in the top eight already and then gets injured preventing them remain in the top eight. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 and isnt that what the GP Qualifier wild card is about - giving someone another chance who was already in the qualifiers but had a bad meeting, not someone who was over the alcohol limit Very harsh Ove,do you punish Ward forever ? or let it go and hope he does not mess up again.The GP series at the moment looks stale Tai, Emil, Ward are in my opinion the best three riders in the world why would you not want them all in it.? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman2006 Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 He was punished for his one FIM transgression - nothing more or less. Move on. Don't be silly, they will never move on, 10,000 posts well on the way.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Central Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 (edited) People keep asserting things about wildcards as if they are 'facts' when they are not. That they are, or at least SHOULD, only to be given in certain circumstances, for certain reasons, to deserving cases. Utter nonsense. That has never been said, announced, laid down in regulations, or even intimated by anyone in power. At all. Ever. They exist so that the people given the right to choose them, can do so, in whatever way they feel fit for any reason that they want. No explanations or apologetic reasoning is required. Ok it has to be 'ratified' by the FIM, but that is all. But no bad luck stories are required, no force majeure, no 'Simon Cowell' X factor excuses are needed. Why do people WANT to believe that this is some sort of 'ethical' judgement of the great and good. If they just decide that a loathsome, arrogant, disgusting individual fits the bill. They can choose him.Without a care in the world. And I bet. Will. . . Edited July 22, 2015 by Grand Central 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OveFundinFan Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 Very harsh Ove,do you punish Ward forever ? or let it go and hope he does not mess up again.The GP series at the moment looks stale Tai, Emil, Ward are in my opinion the best three riders in the world why would you not want them all in it.? I am not punishing Darcy, he committed the offence, he punishes himself. If he hadnt of been stupid enough to go drinking the night before a GP he would have still been in the GP last year and no doubt this year. He was stupid, he pays the price, simple, and its not fair on other riders who are trying their hardest to achieve the sports highest accolade - that of being world champ. True not many attain that goal, but for someone who throws an opportunity away (and that was Ward last year) - do they really deserve being given a "silver spoon" I would love to see Darcy in the GP's, like the majority on here I find him an exciting racer (Note I dont say rider, but racer) but he has done the crime, the penalty of that he has been banned, now he has to earn his place in the top contest in this sport, the GP's. I think the knowledge that he cannot just walk back in and carry on as if nothing happened, and he has to qualify by right, will be a constant reminder that he has to behave himself. Don't be silly, they will never move on, 10,000 posts well on the way.. Yes, but recently some of them was hijacked posts 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheReturn Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 Don't be silly, they will never move on, 10,000 posts well on the way.. And? it's a DISCUSSSION forum. Unless I missed it in the forum rules there is no limit to a thread post count where something remains discussable. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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