Grachan Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 BWitcher, You're talking to yourself. Find someone else who's prepared to play your sad mind games. I think you've missed the point of what people were talking about. It wasn't about EL being better than PL, or about how good a league the lower league is. It was about whether or not the PL is a stronger league now than the NNL was in 1975 in terms of the ability of the riders in it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 It really is quite quaint, how in the absence of REAL debate over substance. Some here just argue and argue over the minutest of semantics going back 40 years. But, was Michael Lee 'really NL' or 'not just NL' For god's sake Get me a drink, Darcy. Or something stronger, Mike. I need it. . Central he rode in the NL,so he had to be MEDIOCRE na only joking Central.!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 .......to the fans of the clubs they rode for they were 'stars', they were their best riders and were loved and quite rightly so. They found the level that was best for them and enjoyed great careers. That is a great comment BWitcher, one that I commend. It 'says all' and was the concept in the 'good old days' before British speedway started to destroy itself. It was, as in most sports, club-orientated and the fans loved it for just that. Averages to decide team make-ups, r/r, guest riders and all the other nonsense we now have are in MY OPINION reasons why, slowly but surely, people nowadays increasingly stop following the sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Central Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 That is a great comment BWitcher, one that I commend. It 'says all' and was the concept in the 'good old days' before British speedway started to destroy itself. It was, as in most sports, club-orientated and the fans loved it for just that. Averages to decide team make-ups, r/r, guest riders and all the other nonsense we now have are in MY OPINION reasons why, slowly but surely, people nowadays increasingly stop following the sport. All of which were integral parts of what helped make the National league just what it was in it's halcyon days of the 1980s. How people love to re-write history. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 (edited) That is a great comment BWitcher, one that I commend. It 'says all' and was the concept in the 'good old days' before British speedway started to destroy itself. It was, as in most sports, club-orientated and the fans loved it for just that. Averages to decide team make-ups, r/r, guest riders and all the other nonsense we now have are in MY OPINION reasons why, slowly but surely, people nowadays increasingly stop following the sport. All of which were integral parts of what helped make the National league just what it was in it's halcyon days of the 1980s. How people love to re-write history. Where is the re-write in the initial quote? Edited July 16, 2015 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 I think the point was that averages have been used for team building since at least 1980, and RR and guests for longer still, so it seems somewhat flawed to cite these as the cause of speedway's decline in support. Next you'll be saying people are stopping attending because of the double point rule.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 (edited) BWitcher, You're talking to yourself. Find someone else who's prepared to play your sad mind games. Not entirely sure how I can be 'talking to myself' when you interjected yourself into this discussion of your own will. Totally misunderstood the topics being discussed and hurled false accusations in my direction... plus some petty personal abuse. I ask you again, you've made an accusation, back it up and quote where derogatory comments have been made regarding the riders in the National League. You claim it's on the thread, so it shouldn't be too hard for you to do. I think the point was that averages have been used for team building since at least 1980, and RR and guests for longer still, so it seems somewhat flawed to cite these as the cause of speedway's decline in support. Next you'll be saying people are stopping attending because of the double point rule.... I think what Gustix is perhaps getting at is that riders move around a lot more these days? There is less of an association between riders and certain clubs than perhaps there used to be. It's always an interesting discussion point.. my team Wolverhampton have always been very loyal to their riders and traditionally kept a very familiar line up.. I like that.. but equally there are many fans that don't and in years the team struggles they use that as the reason for the struggles. It never is of course, it's simply because the team wasn't built correctly! Edited July 16, 2015 by BWitcher 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazeaway Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 Not entirely sure how I can be 'talking to myself' when you interjected yourself into this discussion of your own will. Totally misunderstood the topics being discussed and hurled false accusations in my direction... plus some petty personal abuse. I ask you again, you've made an accusation, back it up and quote where derogatory comments have been made regarding the riders in the National League. You claim it's on the thread, so it shouldn't be too hard for you to do. Ignore it mate, some people like to think of themselves as some sort of forum police. He'll be having another "I'm never posting again" hissy fit soon enough. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 Good on ya Darcy, another 5 pages - keep going mate!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 Good on ya Darcy, another 5 pages - keep going mate!! Have you read the last few pages? All the best Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris4gillian Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 Have you read the last few pages? All the best Rob The ones where a handful of posters are toing and froing and going over and over and over and over and over the same guff on the completely wrong thread? Unfortunately I have p.s. Darcy Ward rules 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 Good on ya Darcy, another 5 pages - keep going mate!! The ones where a handful of posters are toing and froing and going over and over and over and over and over the same guff on the completely wrong thread? Unfortunately I have p.s. Darcy Ward rules Hey, what's this? Another Swindon topic being hijacked by Poole fans? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 (edited) Darcy Ward thread. The one place he's not being discussed.. Edited July 16, 2015 by Jacques 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 Darcy Ward thread. The one place he's not being discussed.. Best place to hide! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 (edited) Talking of the old National League have we discussed the 1934 National League Second Division yet? Tommy Price, George Wilks, Wal Morton, Alec Statham, Mike Erskine and Acorn Dobson all rode in that one. Norbold mentioned Wal Morton in a previous Post. In how many leagues was he involved with in that 32 year career (1932-1964)? Three? National League 1st Div, National League 2nd Div, Provincial League. I think...... ...and there was.... 1964 Metropolitan League appearances: For Ipswich 5+2 (4) v Rayleigh July 21 For Weymouth 3+1 (4) at Rayleigh August 1 Ah, yes. Quite right. Wal Morton must have been towards 53 years old when he made these last speedway track appearances in 1964? There was also a Southern League at the start of the 1963 season. Add this to Morton's list of leagues - he rode for Hackney. Edited July 16, 2015 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 There was also a Southern League at the start of the 1963 season. Add this to Morton's list of leagues - he rode for Hackney. I don't think those mini-leagues really count as separate leagues. It was really the Provinvial League's Southern League. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 (edited) I don't think those mini-leagues really count as separate leagues. It was really the Provinvial League's Southern League. Agree Norbold. Only the main league programme counts as a league, rather than any secondary competitions. It gets a bit complicated when you start including e.g. the Midland League from 1980. Although Middlesbrough in 1966 is an interesting one, since they rode in the Northern League only and not the British League. All the best Rob Edited July 17, 2015 by lucifer sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 (edited) I don't think those mini-leagues really count as separate leagues. It was really the Provinvial League's Southern League. Agree Norbold. Only the main league programme counts as a league, rather than any secondary competitions. It gets a bit complicated when you start including e.g. the Midland League from 1980. Although Middlesbrough in 1966 is an interesting one, since they rode in the Northern League only and not the British League. All the best Rob Do I understand that to mean the ill-fated 1964 Metropolitan League status-wise was more important than the 1963 Southern League although the calibre of rider in the latter was much higher? Edited July 17, 2015 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 (edited) Do I understand that to mean the ill-fated 1964 Metropolitan League status-wise was more important than the 1963 Southern League although the calibre of rider in the latter was much higher? Yes. Also the 1938 Sunday Amateur Dirt Track League. Because at least they were separate leagues in their own right, not just off-shoots. Would you count the Britannia Shield as a separate league or the old National Association Trophy? Also, what about the London Cup in the late 1960s? That was run on a league basis between three teams, but it was a league nevertheless. Edited July 17, 2015 by norbold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 Yes. Also the 1938 Sunday Amateur Dirt Track League. Because at least they were separate leagues in their own right, not just off-shoots. Would you count the Britannia Shield as a separate league or the old National Association Trophy? Also, what about the London Cup in the late 1960s? That was run on a league basis between three teams, but it was a league nevertheless. As the old saying goes (something like this) - "...you pays your money and makes your choice..." So far as I am concerned, this could be an ongoing debate and for my part I am withdrawing from it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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