tyler42 Posted July 12, 2015 Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 (edited) I think its easy to pick out random meetings. How about this one from Poole V Hackney in 1988 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQ5SAl2VCZM While heat 2 is comedy It's MDL level! Really, I would like to see PL riders of today try to ride a track with that amount of dirt. Now that would be funny. Half can't ride a slick track as proved last week at Berwick I just looked for this. I found a top of the table clash between Weymouth and Middlesbrough. I haven't even finished watching heat 1 yet and I'm thinking that NL riders look more in control that this lot! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voEhlEEpvWg edit> While heat 2 is comedy It's MDL level! What like this one. I only watched heat 1. What standard of speedway is that? Now that is a comedy! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBzVPHgZ6NQ I've seen a better standard of riding at Hackney training school on a Saturday afternoon. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jOdXtwSrlw Edited July 12, 2015 by tyler42 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Posted July 12, 2015 Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 I think its easy to pick out random meetings. How about this one from Poole V Hackney in 1988 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQ5SAl2VCZM While heat 2 is comedy It's MDL level! Really, I would like to today's PL riders try to ride a track with that amount of dirt. Now that would be funny. Half can't ride a slick track as proved last week at Berwick Quality riders, quality racing. So much better than what was served up at Berwick the other day. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted July 12, 2015 Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 I think its easy to pick out random meetings. How about this one from Poole V Hackney in 1988 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQ5SAl2VCZM While heat 2 is comedy It's MDL level! Really, I would like to see PL riders of today try to ride a track with that amount of dirt. Now that would be funny. Half can't ride a slick track as proved last week at Berwick What like this one. I only watched heat 1. What standard of speedway is that? Now that is a comedy! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBzVPHgZ6NQ I've seen a better standard of riding at Hackney training school on a Saturday afternoon. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jOdXtwSrlw TBF, that Poole meeting is a LOT better. I'm struggling to see your point with the 20 year old CL meeting though, it doesn't prove either side of the argument here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveallan81 Posted July 12, 2015 Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 To old Dave am i wrong Dave? was the NL a crap product.? 99% of my speedway viewing was at NL level. I have watched so little modern PL racing - I haven't been through a speedway turnstile in a decade and didn't attend on anything like a regular basis for a decade before that - that it's impossible for me to compare the two with any degree of accuracy. What I do know is that the desciption of 'mediocre' is the sort of antagonistic comment I've come to expect from certain members of this forum. Accordingly I, as should you, choose to treat both post and poster with the disdain they deserve. Or crave. And perhaps someone can explain why, while watching this sport the length and breadth of the country for 15 years, I never once encountered any one of the plethora of sanctimonious, truculent, pompous, ill-informed, greeting-faced excuses for human beings that choose to haunt this forum with their nothingness. Actually, don't bother. I'm long past caring. And judging by the swathes of empty terraces that greet me on Sky, so is practically everyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted July 12, 2015 Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 99% of my speedway viewing was at NL level. I have watched so little modern PL racing - I haven't been through a speedway turnstile in a decade and didn't attend on anything like a regular basis for a decade before that - that it's impossible for me to compare the two with any degree of accuracy. What I do know is that the desciption of 'mediocre' is the sort of antagonistic comment I've come to expect from certain members of this forum. Accordingly I, as should you, choose to treat both post and poster with the disdain they deserve. Or crave. And perhaps someone can explain why, while watching this sport the length and breadth of the country for 15 years, I never once encountered any one of the plethora of sanctimonious, truculent, pompous, ill-informed, greeting-faced excuses for human beings that choose to haunt this forum with their nothingness. Actually, don't bother. I'm long past caring. And judging by the swathes of empty terraces that greet me on Sky, so is practically everyone else. Another one who fails to understand the English language. Mediocre means average. The National League was the SECOND DIVISION. The best riders, i.e. the GOOD riders were in the British League, i.e. the FIRST DIVISION. Which left a few good riders to race in the NL, along with many average ones and even more BELOW average ones. So, you're actually right, mediocre is wrong, I should have said mediocre to less than mediocre for the overall standard of rider. That of course, has nothing to do with either the standard of racing or how good the overall product was from an entertainment point of view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sommelier Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Another one who fails to understand the English language. Mediocre means average. The National League was the SECOND DIVISION. The best riders, i.e. the GOOD riders were in the British League, i.e. the FIRST DIVISION. Which left a few good riders to race in the NL, along with many average ones and even more BELOW average ones. So, you're actually right, mediocre is wrong, I should have said mediocre to less than mediocre for the overall standard of rider. That of course, has nothing to do with either the standard of racing or how good the overall product was from an entertainment point of view. You do have a fetish with mediocre don't you!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveallan81 Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 If your brains were dynamite you wouldn't have enough to blow your head off. Mediocre. Adjective. Described in Collins as "often derogatory". You are using it in that context. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler42 Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 TBF, that Poole meeting is a LOT better. I'm struggling to see your point with the 20 year old CL meeting though, it doesn't prove either side of the argument here. I think in the context of your post it does. 'While heat 2 is comedy It's MDL level!' I was trying to show that the standard of that meeting would be imo on par with the standard of a MDL meeting. i.e Riders learning to ride bikes. Riders of that standard in the Weymouth days would have been riding in the second half not in the main meeting. I think as others have said we could go on for ages showing different examples. which we both must agree is quite pointless. The post that really started this debate was 'You keep saying this.. the 'mega tough' old NL. What was mega tough about it? It was a league full of journeyman. The current PL is stronger.' Which was not just imo derogatory of the old NL Imo but also suggested so many fantastic riders from that era were Journeyman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 whooosh ah thanks for bringing me into every post you write..........you do have an obsession with me dont you? How about contributing to the debate or is that beyond you.? i happen to think Sidney is a very angry man and we dont get along on here but i make him right in this instance. Would be nice if you could contribute to a debate once in a while Angry no you are wrong i am as happy as Larry Gavan,rightly or wrongly does it Matter?i think it has been an interesting discussion different OPINIONS surely that is what it is all about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Central Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) One can imagine a Portuguese love nest. The pillow talk after a passionate conjugal congress. A glistening, exhausted Mrs BW turns to her triumphant partner in love. And says 'Your performance certainly matched up to your usual standard. It was really, spot on on your average.' 'You are mediocre ' . Edited July 13, 2015 by Grand Central 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 I think in the context of your post it does. 'While heat 2 is comedy It's MDL level!' I was trying to show that the standard of that meeting would be imo on par with the standard of a MDL meeting. i.e Riders learning to ride bikes. Riders of that standard in the Weymouth days would have been riding in the second half not in the main meeting. I think as others have said we could go on for ages showing different examples. which we both must agree is quite pointless. The post that really started this debate was 'You keep saying this.. the 'mega tough' old NL. What was mega tough about it? It was a league full of journeyman. The current PL is stronger.' Which was not just imo derogatory of the old NL Imo but also suggested so many fantastic riders from that era were Journeyman. It was a league full of journeyman, young riders who as soon as they got good, for the most part moved up a league and older riders, no longer as good as they were on their way down. That is the reality no matter how much you cry and whinge about it. Therefore, in the context of being a professional speedway rider it wasn't 'mega tough'. That part is not even a debate. What can be debated is whether the current PL is stronger or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) It was a league full of journeyman, young riders who as soon as they got good, for the most part moved up a league and older riders, no longer as good as they were on their way down. That is the reality no matter how much you cry and whinge about it. Therefore, in the context of being a professional speedway rider it wasn't 'mega tough'. That part is not even a debate. What can be debated is whether the current PL is stronger or not. I think the PL became a lot stronger in the late 80s, after the top flight started to struggle and the NL began to sign foreign riders. Instead of just a league for those on the way up or the way down it became a proper, competitive league - just at a lower level. By 1988 (the year of the Poole footage), the top flight was down to about 12 clubs and teams began dropping down for econmic reasons. I'd say the PL is definitely tougher than the old NL for those very reasons. The old second division and NNL wasn't much different to the National League now. That's why genuinely talented riders like Peter Collins and Michael Lee could come in and straight away be heatleaders in much the same Tai Woffinden could in the third tier recently. One reason there are so many PL riders in the British final now is because of the lack of clubs in the EL plus the doubling up. If we had 18 clubs at top level and no doubling up, then the British Final would be pretty much full of EL riders. It's funny that people call doubling up riders "Premier League" riders all the time, when they are just as much EL as PL. Edited July 13, 2015 by grachan 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OveFundinFan Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 I'm pretty sure the thread title started by the original poster is "Darcy Ward", it seems most posts are now far removed. How is Darcy going on? Has he made any statements yet? When does he start riding? Any other news about DARCY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 I think the PL became a lot stronger in the late 80s, after the top flight started to struggle and the NL began to sign foreign riders. Instead of just a league for those on the way up or the way down it became a proper, competitive league - just at a lower level. By 1988 (the year of the Poole footage), the top flight was down to about 12 clubs and teams began dropping down for econmic reasons. I'd say the PL is definitely tougher than the old NL for those very reasons. The old second division and NNL wasn't much different to the National League now. That's why genuinely talented riders like Peter Collins and Michael Lee could come in and straight away be heatleaders in much the same Tai Woffinden could in the third tier recently. One reason there are so many PL riders in the British final now is because of the lack of clubs in the EL plus the doubling up. If we had 18 clubs at top level and no doubling up, then the British Final would be pretty much full of EL riders. It's funny that people call doubling up riders "Premier League" riders all the time, when they are just as much EL as PL. Absolutely spot on, agree with every word of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 I'm pretty sure the thread title started by the original poster is "Darcy Ward", it seems most posts are now far removed. How is Darcy going on? Has he made any statements yet? When does he start riding? Any other news about DARCY ....and hopefully in this section, it can be related to what he's doing for Torun and Piraterna rather than Swindon or Poole!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Why do people think it's so offensive to call someone average or a journeyman? Neither is a bad thing to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Why do people think it's so offensive to call someone average or a journeyman? Neither is a bad thing to be. Exactly, its what the vast majority are in any profession! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Exactly, its what the vast majority are in any profession! It's just speedway fans once again redefining the meaning of words! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) Mediocre, average, journeymen?? Whatever. The NL product in the late 80's and into the nineties was superb because the racing was brilliant with the likes of Boyce, Adams and other young riders et al entertaining everyone!! Crowds were packed in, fans travelled to away meetings in huge numbers. The current EL and PL would be rubbing their hands with those crowds. Edited July 13, 2015 by Skidder1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Mediocre, average, journeymen?? Whatever. The NL product in the late 80's and into the nineties was superb because the racing was brilliant with the likes of Boyce, Adams and other young riders et al entertaining everyone!! Crowds were packed in, fans travelled to away meetings in huge numbers. The current EL and PL would be rubbing their hands with those crowds. Nobody has questioned the quality of the racing, like now there were good and bad meetings. Although, of course, the quality of the racing has little bearing on crowd figures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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