stratton Posted July 11, 2015 Report Share Posted July 11, 2015 (edited) Once again another pointless list Sidney. What they did in the BL is IRRELEVANT. It's what level they were at in their time in the NL. However, it is a big long list mainly of pretty mediocre riders. They're certainly not greats, they're certainly not very good riders.. they're riders of average quality.. which funnily enough is the definition of Mediocre. You have been disrespectfull to all those riders i have named some no longer with us you should know better you know a few dont you? i respect any rider who has the balls to ride and entertain us not that you have SEEN many of them ride if any? At times your comments are so BRUTAL,and totally uncalled for to be honest you act like a spoilt child who has to win an a arguement at any cost.SAD man slag me off by all means,water off a ducks back but don't slag the riders of the past off unless you have the balls to tell them to there FACE which i doubt very much. Once again another pointless list Sidney. What they did in the BL is IRRELEVANT. It's what level they were at in their time in the NL. However, it is a big long list mainly of pretty mediocre riders. They're certainly not greats, they're certainly not very good riders.. they're riders of average quality.. which funnily enough is the definition of Mediocre. Pointless why? because it is different to the rubbish you have spouted on this subject. Edited July 11, 2015 by sidney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted July 11, 2015 Report Share Posted July 11, 2015 Collins rode 1 year in the National League and averaged 8. So you can scratch him off your list of being a great National League rider for starters. Again you bring up.. 'went on to be'. What they went on to be is irrelevant. What is relevant is their abilities at the time they rode in the league. It's very very easy to name a bunch of no 1's over an ever expanding period. Go ahead and name me the same amount of second strings and reserves who weren't mediocre or journeymen. Should be easy for you, there's 4 times as many of them! Perhaps - but he became a World Champion who had ridden in the National League BW. Or, are we ignoring that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted July 11, 2015 Report Share Posted July 11, 2015 Perhaps - but he became a World Champion who had ridden in the National League BW. Or, are we ignoring that? Yes, because it's utterly irrelevant! You have been disrespectfull to all those riders i have named some no longer with us you should know better you know a few dont you? i respect any rider who has the balls to ride and entertain us not that you have SEEN many of them ride if any? At times your comments are so BRUTAL,and totally uncalled for to be honest you act like a spoilt child who has to win an a arguement at any cost.SAD man slag me off by all means,water off a ducks back but don't slag the riders of the past off unless you have the balls to tell them to there FACE which i doubt very much. Pointless why? because it is different to the rubbish you have spouted on this subject. Because we are discussing the strength of the National League. So what someone did in totally different seasons in another league is irrelevant. It's like saying the Portuguese league was the toughest league in Europe in 1992 because Porto won the Champions League in 1994. Meanwhile once again you're unable to argue the point and are resorting to your rants. I know one rider who rode in both leagues to a pretty decent standard, you know how he describes himself? An average rider. How dare he abuse himself like that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted July 11, 2015 Report Share Posted July 11, 2015 Yes, because it's utterly irrelevant! Of course it isn't. Sidney, rightly stated that there were some great Riders in the old National League - and that is true. Granted a lot of these Riders were developing their careers but they all had to start somewhere. Even today Woffinden started in the National League. Yes, because it's utterly irrelevant! Because we are discussing the strength of the National League. So what someone did in totally different seasons in another league is irrelevant. It's like saying the Portuguese league was the toughest league in Europe in 1992 because Porto won the Champions League in 1994. Meanwhile once again you're unable to argue the point and are resorting to your rants. I know one rider who rode in both leagues to a pretty decent standard, you know how he describes himself? An average rider. How dare he abuse himself like that! Who? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazeaway Posted July 11, 2015 Report Share Posted July 11, 2015 Of course it isn't. Sidney, rightly stated that there were some great Riders in the old National League - and that is true. Granted a lot of these Riders were developing their careers but they all had to start somewhere. Even today Woffinden started in the National League. Who? Tai started in The Conference League actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted July 11, 2015 Report Share Posted July 11, 2015 Yes, because it's utterly irrelevant! Because we are discussing the strength of the National League. So what someone did in totally different seasons in another league is irrelevant. It's like saying the Portuguese league was the toughest league in Europe in 1992 because Porto won the Champions League in 1994. Meanwhile once again you're unable to argue the point and are resorting to your rants. I know one rider who rode in both leagues to a pretty decent standard, you know how he describes himself? An average rider. How dare he abuse himself like that! Not a rant at all,but disgusted in your comments about past riders alot of them you don't even know who they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted July 11, 2015 Report Share Posted July 11, 2015 Not a rant at all,but disgusted in your comments about past riders alot of them you don't even know who they are. Then you have a problem. Your main one being a lack of understanding of the English language. Mediocre = average rider. Riders in the second division are mainly just that, average riders. Some of them will progress to become good riders and move up a league, some of them will progress further to become great riders... some will regress back.. That's the reality, no matter how much you stamp your feet. Of course it isn't. Sidney, rightly stated that there were some great Riders in the old National League - and that is true. Granted a lot of these Riders were developing their careers but they all had to start somewhere. Even today Woffinden started in the National League. Who? When Peter Collins rode in the National League he wasn't a great rider. He was a promising rider with potential who in later years would become a great one. What he did later is totally irrelevant to the conversation regarding the strength of the National League. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted July 11, 2015 Report Share Posted July 11, 2015 (edited) My English is good anough to debate with the likes of you,oh sorry no one really debates with you do they unless they agree with you.The NL from my way of thinking you know nothing about it to be honest,you never saw half of the riders if any that i named.Yet your disgusting remark about past riders was uncalled for, tyler exposed you early on and you have been in a little strop ever since.Your best bet is to give Gustix a tinkle he will put you straight about the MEDIOCRE NL have a listen you might LEARN something. Edited July 11, 2015 by sidney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 11, 2015 Report Share Posted July 11, 2015 (edited) The long awaited return: SATURDAY, JULY 11, 2015 ELITE LEAGUE LEICESTER 49: Jason Doyle 13+1, Carl Wilkinson 12, Szymon Wozniak 11+1, Simon Lambert 6+1, Piotr Swiderski 6, Sam Masters 1+1, Grzegorz Walasek R/R.SWINDON 42: Darcy Ward 15+1, Grzegorz Zengota 14+1, Craig Cook 6+1, Lewis Rose 3, Eduard Krcmar 2, Adam Roynon 2, Nick Morris R/R.Elite League points: Leicester 3 Swindon 0 Edited July 11, 2015 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted July 11, 2015 Report Share Posted July 11, 2015 My English is good anough to debate with the likes of you,oh sorry no one really debates with you do they unless they agree with you.The NL from my way of thinking you know nothing about it to be honest,you never saw half of the riders if any that i named.Yet your disgusting remark about past riders was uncalled for, tyler exposed you early on and you have been in a little strop ever since.Your best bet is to give Gustix a tinkle he will put you straight about the MEDIOCRE NL have a listen you might LEARN something. I'm still waiting for you to name all the second string/reserves that populated the NL that made it a 'mega tough' league in your words and were above average standard. Now bear in mind, riders such as Danny King/Simon Stead/Graham Jones to give 3 examples are deemed to be average standard.. lets hear all the NL second strings/reserves who match up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted July 11, 2015 Report Share Posted July 11, 2015 I once saw Sam Hurst and Billy Legg beat Tai Woffinden - does that make them both World Championship standard riders now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted July 12, 2015 Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 (edited) I'm still waiting for you to name all the second string/reserves that populated the NL that made it a 'mega tough' league in your words and were above average standard. Now bear in mind, riders such as Danny King/Simon Stead/Graham Jones to give 3 examples are deemed to be average standard.. lets hear all the NL second strings/reserves who match up. On this subject about the old NL you have not got a clue,so you might as well shut up and move on.Believe me it was a tough league to ride in,anyone who saw it would understand that UNLIKE yourself.If you had just said you believed the PL was a better and a harder product i could understand that go back to Henry his post a very good one he had a valid case.Unlike yourself he did not make the silly comment about the league being full of Journeyman and full of second rate MEDIOCRE riders.Three of us supplied endless top riders that graced the NL over a period for you you ignored it i supplied a few of the second/string reserve BL riders that rode NL that went on and made the BL what it was a tough one.You then basically said most of them were crap how would YOU know you didn't see many of them ride.So at the end of the day Witcher is saying all those people from the year 1969 who watched regular NL racing must of been watching crap MEDIOCRE riders after all that's why it is the second division.? You need to understand the NL was a hard one,because it had a mix up of all different ages from a 16 year old Lee to a 47/48 veteran Mckinlay.It served its purpose in a way giving riders an apprenticeship race time and in those days it was hard to go full time in the old BL. Boothroyd,Littlechild,Oliver all great speedway men loaned Carter,Lee,Collins out first they did not plunge them straight into the BL does that not tell you something.? Edited July 12, 2015 by sidney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveallan81 Posted July 12, 2015 Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 Gaun Sidney, punch his lights oot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted July 12, 2015 Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 Gaun Sidney, punch his lights oot To old Dave am i wrong Dave? was the NL a crap product.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sommelier Posted July 12, 2015 Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 I'm still waiting for you to name all the second string/reserves that populated the NL that made it a 'mega tough' league in your words and were above average standard. Now bear in mind, riders such as Danny King/Simon Stead/Graham Jones to give 3 examples are deemed to be average standard.. lets hear all the NL second strings/reserves who match up. Sidney has tied you up in knots on this one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted July 12, 2015 Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 (edited) On this subject about the old NL you have not got a clue,so you might as well shut up and move on.Believe me it was a tough league to ride in,anyone who saw it would understand that UNLIKE yourself.If you had just said you believed the PL was a better and a harder product i could understand that go back to Henry his post a very good one he had a valid case.Unlike yourself he did not make the silly comment about the league being full of Journeyman and full of second rate MEDIOCRE riders.Three of us supplied endless top riders that graced the NL over a period for you you ignored it i supplied a few of the second/string reserve BL riders that rode NL that went on and made the BL what it was a tough one.You then basically said most of them were crap how would YOU know you didn't see many of them ride.So at the end of the day Witcher is saying all those people from the year 1969 who watched regular NL racing must of been watching crap MEDIOCRE riders after all that's why it is the second division.? You need to understand the NL was a hard one,because it had a mix up of all different ages from a 16 year old Lee to a 47/48 veteran Mckinlay.It served its purpose in a way giving riders an apprenticeship race time and in those days it was hard to go full time in the old BL. Boothroyd,Littlechild,Oliver all great speedway men loaned Carter,Lee,Collins out first they did not plunge them straight into the BL does that not tell you something.? What it tells me Sidney is what we already know. You haven't got the slightest clue what you are talking about. Run along and learn the meaning of the word mediocre, then we can continue the discussion. You are the one adding extra's in such as 'second rate' mediocre and 'crap' medicore. None of these things said by me.. just you in your paranoia. Mediocre = "of only average quality; not very good." Now, if riders were 'very good' they would be in the top flight of racing for the most part. Not even the top flight was full of riders that were 'very good', but we'll ignore that for now. Riders in the old National League, i.e. the SECOND division weren't as good as the top riders in the British League... i.e. the very good riders. By definition that makes them 'not very good'. Which of course makes them of average quality or mediocre. Once again Sidney, its a FACT. This does not mean they were bad riders, that's your own fabrication. Continue to argue all you like, but you are wrong. You've even argued against yourself (again). The reason promoters loaned riders out to the lower league first was because it was easier! i.e. not mega tough like the British League was. To old Dave am i wrong Dave? was the NL a crap product.? Who has said it was a crap product? You've created this fiction yourself Sidney. It wasn't a crap product, it was an excellent product. Serious question for you now Sidders.. Did any reserves from the old NL ever reach the World U-21 Final? Edited July 12, 2015 by BWitcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted July 12, 2015 Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 (edited) What it tells me Sidney is what we already know. You haven't got the slightest clue what you are talking about. Run along and learn the meaning of the word mediocre, then we can continue the discussion. You are the one adding extra's in such as 'second rate' mediocre and 'crap' medicore. None of these things said by me.. just you in your paranoia. Mediocre = "of only average quality; not very good." Now, if riders were 'very good' they would be in the top flight of racing for the most part. Not even the top flight was full of riders that were 'very good', but we'll ignore that for now. Riders in the old National League, i.e. the SECOND division weren't as good as the top riders in the British League... i.e. the very good riders. By definition that makes them 'not very good'. Which of course makes them of average quality or mediocre. Once again Sidney, its a FACT. This does not mean they were bad riders, that's your own fabrication. Continue to argue all you like, but you are wrong. You've even argued against yourself (again). The reason promoters loaned riders out to the lower league first was because it was easier! i.e. not mega tough like the British League was. Who has said it was a crap product? You've created this fiction yourself Sidney. It wasn't a crap product, it was an excellent product. Serious question for you now Sidders.. Did any reserves from the old NL ever reach the World U-21 Final? What it tells me Sidney is what we already know. You haven't got the slightest clue what you are talking about. Run along and learn the meaning of the word mediocre, then we can continue the discussion. You are the one adding extra's in such as 'second rate' mediocre and 'crap' medicore. None of these things said by me.. just you in your paranoia. Mediocre = "of only average quality; not very good." Now, if riders were 'very good' they would be in the top flight of racing for the most part. Not even the top flight was full of riders that were 'very good', but we'll ignore that for now. Riders in the old National League, i.e. the SECOND division weren't as good as the top riders in the British League... i.e. the very good riders. By definition that makes them 'not very good'. Which of course makes them of average quality or mediocre. Once again Sidney, its a FACT. This does not mean they were bad riders, that's your own fabrication. Continue to argue all you like, but you are wrong. You've even argued against yourself (again). The reason promoters loaned riders out to the lower league first was because it was easier! i.e. not mega tough like the British League was. Who has said it was a crap product? You've created this fiction yourself Sidney. It wasn't a crap product, it was an excellent product. Serious question for you now Sidders.. Did any reserves from the old NL ever reach the World U-21 Final? I bow down to YOUR Words of WISDOM?? this is from a bloke who said the NL was a MEDIOCRE league.Full of JOURNEYMAN ( old men on the slide) and MEDIOCRE riders. Lee,Collins, Havelock,Loram four English world champions they started there journey in the NL oh but they only rode in it because it was EASY yeh Right!!! Edited July 12, 2015 by sidney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman2006 Posted July 12, 2015 Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 What it tells me Sidney is what we already know. You haven't got the slightest clue what you are talking about. Run along and learn the meaning of the word mediocre, then we can continue the discussion. You are the one adding extra's in such as 'second rate' mediocre and 'crap' medicore. None of these things said by me.. just you in your paranoia. Mediocre = "of only average quality; not very good." Now, if riders were 'very good' they would be in the top flight of racing for the most part. Not even the top flight was full of riders that were 'very good', but we'll ignore that for now. Riders in the old National League, i.e. the SECOND division weren't as good as the top riders in the British League... i.e. the very good riders. By definition that makes them 'not very good'. Which of course makes them of average quality or mediocre. Once again Sidney, its a FACT. This does not mean they were bad riders, that's your own fabrication. Continue to argue all you like, but you are wrong. You've even argued against yourself (again). The reason promoters loaned riders out to the lower league first was because it was easier! i.e. not mega tough like the British League was. Who has said it was a crap product? You've created this fiction yourself Sidney. It wasn't a crap product, it was an excellent product. Serious question for you now Sidders.. Did any reserves from the old NL ever reach the World U-21 Final? Im still deciding whether you and Gavan are the same person. Do you have anything else to do with your time other than spending it all on this forum arguing the toss, because to me that is all you do, very much like Gavan. Funny that !! Must be something in the Suffolk water.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted July 12, 2015 Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 Im still deciding whether you and Gavan are the same person. Do you have anything else to do with your time other than spending it all on this forum arguing the toss, because to me that is all you do, very much like Gavan. Funny that !! Must be something in the Suffolk water..Is that FACT " Starman? all the Darcy knockers are a bit quiet today mate.! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman2006 Posted July 12, 2015 Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 Is that FACT " Starman? all the Darcy knockers are a bit quiet today mate.! Just said that mate on the EL Darcy threads, he scores 15 points first time out and not one i could see has praised him. Tell me, what are they going to say when he does his job tomorrow and you lose. Perhaps they'l blame Rosco for signing him... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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