The White Knight Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 I reckon Ward has got off extremely lightly in his length of Ban. As for financially - I don't know but I think he will have taken quite a big hit. I hope he learns from this dreadful experience and behaves himself from now on - at least his future is back in his own hands again. Can he reform - I certainly hope so. We can only wait and see, 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 Knew there used to be a rule (vaguely remember it was something to do with Berwick???) - wasn't sure if it still was in the book, but since my first mention had checked. So to sum up Ward can only be re-introduced if the MC approve. Think you are right, but was in use before that. The Berwick one I think was Peter Waite trying to put Paul Bentley back in shortly after the first League Cup meetings. It was a bit obvious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f-s-p Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 (edited) Lets ASSUME Darcy gets his suspension turned into a ban.... a 12 month riding ban dated back to the date he was suspended, meaning he can ride again toward the end of 2015, if he wants to. 1) Should he be given the Wild Card no 16 jacket for the 2015 Australian GP ......................................................................................................................... 2) Should he be given one of the four permanent 2016 GP Wild Cards? What do you think? The MA has already given the WC away to someone else: http://t.co/xINrFOK80e">pic.twitter.com/xINrFOK80e</a></p>&mdash Edited February 26, 2015 by f-s-p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 His 2014 CMA would go up from 8.55 to 8.99 & his rolling average would be similarly affected. Yes I blame a momentary brain freeze with the excitement of a Ward return in July. I apologise on the Poole thread too!! The MA has already given the WC away to someone else: http://t.co/xINrFOK80e">pic.twitter.com/xINrFOK80e</a></p>&mdash Its not an MA decision, its BSI's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk_martin Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 Let's hope the BSPA correctly apply the rules and do this. Will that include Matt Ford and Dave Hemmesley asking for their points money back under the terms of the " including forfeiture of any points and prizes." clause of the verdict? Torun could do with a cash injection too, maybe the 24 points he was paid for in Poland during the relevant time should be refunded to them too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 The MA has already given the WC away to someone else: http://t.co/xINrFOK80e">pic.twitter.com/xINrFOK80e</a></p>&mdash BSI have already refuted this. Once Ward has served his time will be eligible for a pick just like anyone else. Will that include Matt Ford and Dave Hemmesley asking for their points money back under the terms of the " including forfeiture of any points and prizes." clause of the verdict? Torun could do with a cash injection too, maybe the 24 points he was paid for in Poland during the relevant time should be refunded to them too? POSTED earlier that the FIM could and should have suspended him immediately. They did not so his licence was valid. Now retrospectively they are saying that he rode illegally which, surely, he didn't. Drivers who fail a breath test continue driving until a court of law takes their licence away. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk_martin Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 (edited) BSI have already refuted this. Once Ward has served his time will be eligible for a pick just like anyone else. POSTED earlier that the FIM could and should have suspended him immediately. They did not so his licence was valid. Now retrospectively they are saying that he rode illegally which, surely, he didn't. Drivers who fail a breath test continue driving until a court of law takes their licence away. This ruling has nothing to do with UK law. Other countries are at liberty to do things their way. This is the verdict that the FIM have come up with. Retrospective or not, either Darcy agrees to it or he appeals against it. If he agrees, then he will have to repay his points money that he earned during the "time of the ban". (my guess will be £15,000 to £20,000 if you believe what people say about what top riders get paid in Poland) Hypothetically, if you apply UK legal principles and apply the ban from the date of conviction, then Darcy can write the rest of the season off as his 10 months will only just have begun. Can't have it both ways. Edited February 26, 2015 by uk martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 This ruling has nothing to do with UK law. Other countries are at liberty to do things their way. This is the verdict that the FIM have come up with. Retrospective or not, either Darcy agrees to it or he appeals against it. If he agrees, then he will have to repay his points money that he earned during the "time of the ban". (my guess will be £15,000 to £20,000 if you believe what people say about what top riders get paid in Poland) Hypothetically, if you apply UK legal principles and apply the ban from the date of conviction, then Darcy can write the rest of the season off as his 10 months will only just have begun. Can't have it both ways. NOTHING to do with UK law. He held a valid FIM licence until he was suspended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f-s-p Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 (edited) Yes I blame a momentary brain freeze with the excitement of a Ward return in July. I apologise on the Poole thread too!! Its not an MA decision, its BSI's. Its not a BSI decision, its a SGP committee decision. I've paid my dues ln this, trust me. But at this moment I cant remember the composition of the committee. It was 3 members 2-1 in favour of FIM, just that I cant remember the names. FIM sporting director was one and I think the race director was the one from BSI? But the bottom line was/ and most likely still is that money calls the shots and promoters, not federations pick the wild cards. And I've actually read the new rulebook. The rule in itself has stayed the same, the paragraphing has changed to highlight that the committee makes the decisions. FMN's can propose what they want and when they want, that does not REALLY count. So did I drop a bollock and made myself a pillock (like the saying goes in wikipedia when I checked)? No, I dont think so. But I think the MA did. Just like SML did last year with the help from our FIM people... Edited February 26, 2015 by f-s-p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk_martin Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 NOTHING to do with UK law. He held a valid FIM licence until he was suspended. Maybe you can see whether in the terms and conditions of the license the FIM reserves the right at their discretion to revoke the license at any time... (or words to that effect) The FIM seems to keep that sort of documentation in a private section of its web site, where you have to log in to access the information, which is why I can't get in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 Its not a BSI decision, its a SGP committee decision. I've paid my dues ln this, trust me. But at this moment I cant remember the composition of the committee. It was 3 members 2-1 in favour of FIM, just that I cant remember the names. FIM sporting director was one and I think the race director was the one from BSI? But the bottom line was/ and most likely still is that money calls the shots and promoters, not federations pick the wild cards. And I've actually read the new rulebook. The rule in itself has stayed the same, the paragraphing has changed to highlight that the committee makes the decisions. FMN's can propose what they want and when they want, that does not REALLY count. So did I drop a bollock and made myself a pillock (like the saying goes in wikipedia when I checked)? No, I dont think so. But I think the MA did. Just like SML did last year with the help from our FIM people... Are you telling me IF? you are a speedway fan are you not looking forward to Ward riding i am! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave69 Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 Will that include Matt Ford and Dave Hemmesley asking for their points money back under the terms of the " including forfeiture of any points and prizes." clause of the verdict? Torun could do with a cash injection too, maybe the 24 points he was paid for in Poland during the relevant time should be refunded to them too? Probably not got got it as it was pissed up against a wall somewhere. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 Will that include Matt Ford and Dave Hemmesley asking for their points money back under the terms of the " including forfeiture of any points and prizes." clause of the verdict? Torun could do with a cash injection too, maybe the 24 points he was paid for in Poland during the relevant time should be refunded to them too? That is what the ruling states should happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 (edited) THEY did revoke his licence when they suspended him and the FIM Jury in Latvia had the authority to impose an immediate 28 day ban but did not do so. So, the fact remains that at no time did he compete without a valid FIM licence. The FIM were aware that he was continuing to ride and could have pulled the plug at any time but chose to wait. Edited February 26, 2015 by PHILIPRISING 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk_martin Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 ... could have pulled the plug at any time but chose to wait. And now they've chosen to pass the verdict that they have...which they are also at liberty to do. If it all sounds a bit like a punishment, then tough. That's exactly what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 I'M not arguing against the punishment, which is probably two months short of what most people would have expected, just that I cannot see how his clubs can be penalised for using a rider who had every right to ride at that time. Or that Ward should refund money he legitimately earned. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salty Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 Think you are right, but was in use before that. The Berwick one I think was Peter Waite trying to put Paul Bentley back in shortly after the first League Cup meetings. It was a bit obvious. The Berwick one was when he had Rymel, Makovsky and Franc all in on 9.00 assessed averages and wanted to bring Bentley in once their averages had gone down. As Bentley was in their previous years final 1-7 this rule was used to stop him coming in. Totally different circs with Ward, but will be interesting to see what happens. If their rumoured introduction of Gomolski on a low average comes to pass, one would imagine him having boosted it by the end of June which may cause difficulties for Poole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazlux Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 Not posted for years but forfeiture of points and prizes would surely not include monies paid for scoring points as it does not constitute a prize Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 No but if he forfeits the points, then he was paid points money for points he didn't score. The "prizes" part is irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk_martin Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 (edited) Not posted for years but forfeiture of points and prizes would surely not include monies paid for scoring points as it does not constitute a prize If a prize is the reward for endeavour, then points money is the prize you get for each race. It may be called something else, but I think that the FIM will seek to make sure that Darcy does not "profit" from his time between 17-28 August. As for clubs/teams being penalised, you could argue that teams could / should have taken pre-emptive measures and suspended Darcy in the way that Man United suspended Erik Cantona, well before the FA handed out their punishment for his infamous king fu kick. Let that be a lesson to those promoters who live in a land of denial of what goes on in the real world. Let it also be a lesson to the BSPA and PZM for not taking immediate action against a rider who brought the sport into disrepute (at the very least). Edited February 26, 2015 by uk martin 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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