BWitcher Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 So why the delay. If it was clear cut, and the test was OK, this could have been over months ago. Any suggestions. It's perfectly normal as has been pointed out numerous times on the thread. In other far bigger profile sports, with bigger names than Ward it has taken a long time. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arson fire Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 So why the delay. If it was clear cut, and the test was OK, this could have been over months ago. Any suggestions. ya mate starman is having too much influence on you 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate Nick Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 It's perfectly normal as has been pointed out numerous times on the thread. In other far bigger profile sports, with bigger names than Ward it has taken a long time. The fact that hearing dates have been set and then cancelled suggests to me that the FIM are not sure of their ground. To me it should be black and white. The alcohol limit is zero so you pass or fail, there is no grey area. I wouldn't be at all surprised if proper procedures weren't followed and Darcy, as a result , will be able to ride in March. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk_martin Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 The comment about alcohol not being performance enhancing is a load of tosh. No, it doesn't give muscles greater strength, no it doesn't convert more oxygen to energy, and no it won't enhnace reaction times. BUT what it does is to remove inhibitions and removes the fright that may stop a rider from making a move that a sober rider wouldn't dream of. That in itself boosts a performance. Right now, we don't know if this was a one-off, or the tip of the iceberg. Right now, we don't know if some of Darcy Ward's breathtaking rides over the years have been as a result of his own courage, or because of Dutch Courage. That's NOT fair on fans. If anyone thinks it's OK for any rider to get "tanked up" just for their entertainment, then why not get ALL the riders drunk before they race. What could possibly go wrong? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman2006 Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 . If anyone thinks it's OK for any rider to get "tanked up" just for their entertainment, then why not get ALL the riders drunk before they race. What could possibly go wrong? Nothing if done what I suggest at every GP round. An ALL TEST... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 Uk martin - darcy wasnt drunk when tested 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salty Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 With respect to the last paragraph, clause 7.5.8 of the regs includes the statement "nor will any such Provisional Suspension or decision give rise under any circumstances to any claim (from the Rider or any other affected party), should such violation not be upheld at a later stage in the procedure." For those that would suggest that the FIM then be taken to court, Appendix 2 reproduces the Acknowledgement & Agreement form signed by all riders in which point 5 states "I acknowledge and agree that the decisions of the arbitral appellate body referenced above shall be final and enforceable, and that I will not bring any claim, arbitration, lawsuit or litigation in any other court or tribunal." If the FIM have it wrong, or gone the wrong way about it, then rightly or wrongly, Darcy has a claim. And that could, run into a real pretty penny. Starry, as Alan Jones pointed out last week (in the above quote) - Darcy will not have a claim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 Uk martin - darcy wasnt drunk when tested I think everyone knows that w1, but it's UK's chance to pontificate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman2006 Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 (edited) Starry, as Alan Jones pointed out last week (in the above quote) - Darcy will not have a claim. Yes he will.. I don't care what Alan jones has writ. Edited January 28, 2015 by Starman2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 Starry, as Alan Jones pointed out last week (in the above quote) - Darcy will not have a claim. Problem is that the rules state with reference to a decision being made being 'final and enforceable', but what if before that happens a charge against the FIM is made, which was and could be upheld in a Court of Law. Are we saying the FIM will plod along and risk a compensation claim, if they know that the counter charge is valid and proveable. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 Yes he will.. I don't care what Alan jones has writ. Yea Salty ..who cares about the laws and the rules . so there 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 (edited) ya mate starman is having too much influence on you I like the way Starman thinks I am agreeing with him, when I think he is agreeing with me. Edited January 28, 2015 by Tsunami 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 (edited) Another fictional post crops up. Who are you referring too. It seems the most 'biased' poster people talk about is Gavan.. who has stated many times he believes a 12 month ban, backdated from the time of the incident is appropriate. So who wants him taken out and hung? I'm sorry BW - I was using a term, an expression. Edited January 28, 2015 by The White Knight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salty Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 Problem is that the rules state with reference to a decision being made being 'final and enforceable', but what if before that happens a charge against the FIM is made, which was and could be upheld in a Court of Law. Are we saying the FIM will plod along and risk a compensation claim, if they know that the counter charge is valid and proveable. Do you really think that Ward's legal team would make such a move? Woulod be quite risky going up against the FIM in such a manner. Yes he will.. I don't care what Alan jones has writ. What Alan Jones "writ" (nice freudian slip given the legalistic nature of the thread) was just a copy of the FIM regs, not a figment of his imagination. But we will wait and see who is right and who is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman2006 Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 (edited) Problem is that the rules state with reference to a decision being made being 'final and enforceable', but what if before that happens a charge against the FIM is made, which was and could be upheld in a Court of Law. Are we saying the FIM will plod along and risk a compensation claim, if they know that the counter charge is valid and proveable. If the test was done wrongly, or was inconclusive, and or not performed by an FIM official, or performed by A N Other person who is not a bonified FIM official, then the FIM could find themselves in very deep water. and if found at fault could be liable for substantial damages.. That said, should the possibility of Darcy being cleared to ride then he could, well be advised to leave it at that. BUT, like the police when somebodys Alledgedly put one over them or been seen to be proven wrong they do not like that, and the same will apply with the FIM, Darcy will need to be whiter than white, because he will have to accept he will be a marked man from then on in...And should, he put a foot out of place, which I don't believe he will they will bounce him from one end of the pits to the other.. Edited January 28, 2015 by Starman2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 Do you really think that Ward's legal team would make such a move? Woulod be quite risky going up against the FIM in such a manner. But we will wait and see who is right and who is wrong. But what would you do if the senior organisation of the sport, is going to take your livelihood away from you, when/if there is evidence that would possibly not be legal in a proper Court of Law. A desperate decision needs desperate reaction. We have to, but it's taking rather a long time to simply decide a, was the machine calibration correct, b, was the person taking the test legally allowed to take the test given the FIM/GP rules, c, was the result positive or negative. Three questions , none of them very hard to answer, so why no decision. As you say, we have to wait, and it's going to be very interesting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salty Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 The current FIM Anti-doping code merely says that "hearings shall be scheduled and completed within a reasonable time". Reasonable is a wonderful word as it is open to a multitude of definitions (a bit like on this thread where we have a wide range of "reasonable" punishments). One suspects in this case the FIM's definition of a reasonable time is quite different to those supporting Ward. But once you enter the legal world then time has a rather abstract feel to it especially when you are paying by the hour! 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 If the F.I.M. thought they might be wrong and that they could be sued for loss of earnings what possible reason could they have for hanging the case out? So they can pay even more in compensation? That makes absolutely no sense at all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salty Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 That makes absolutely no sense at all. Which would explain Starry's belief it might happen. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triple.H. Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 The farce in reality started after the test took place Darcy Ward rode in league/cup matches around UK and Europe for the best part of 2 weeks from memory. As the FIM have to wait for the report from the "event jury" ? To arrive at HQ. In this day and age why did it take so long haven't they heard of the Internet or faxes( does anyone remember faxes) Maybe as a new starting point Britain could lead the way by having a trained/qualified person breathalyse all riders before a meeting starts and all results recorded and archived. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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