stratton Posted July 12, 2015 Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 Just said that mate on the EL Darcy threads, he scores 15 points first time out and not one i could see has praised him. Tell me, what are they going to say when he does his job tomorrow and you lose. Perhaps they'l blame Rosco for signing him... I am not that bothered about the winning and losing aspect,as long as i see some decent racing and seeing Ward in action for a few months is a massive plus it will be weird seeing him in red though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted July 12, 2015 Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 I bow down to YOUR Words of WISDOM?? this is from a bloke who said the NL was a MEDIOCRE league.Full of JOURNEYMAN ( old men on the slide) and MEDIOCRE riders. Lee,Collins, Havelock,Loram four English world champions they started there journey in the NL oh but they only rode in it because it was EASY yeh Right!!! Correct. Absolutely 100% Correct. Why do you think they start in that league? Why do you think riders dropped to that league later in their career? Because it was easier than the top league. Once again, Lee, Collins, Havelock and Loram are destroying your argument, not promoting it. They started in it when they were learning, as soon as they improved, they stopped riding in it.. In the case of Havelock, when he got older and wasn't so good anymore he went back to it.. as it was EASIER. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted July 12, 2015 Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 Correct. Absolutely 100% Correct. Why do you think they start in that league? Why do you think riders dropped to that league later in their career? Because it was easier than the top league. Once again, Lee, Collins, Havelock and Loram are destroying your argument, not promoting it. They started in it when they were learning, as soon as they improved, they stopped riding in it.. In the case of Havelock, when he got older and wasn't so good anymore he went back to it.. as it was EASIER. You are ready for the old folks home mate dinner is at 12.30 keep digging you have been sent round in circles on this subject. I will send you some of my old NL DVDs you might have a better idea what the hell you are on about then.!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted July 12, 2015 Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 (edited) You are ready for the old folks home mate dinner is at 12.30 keep digging you have been sent round in circles on this subject. I will send you some of my old NL DVDs you might have a better idea what the hell you are on about then.!! Keep telling yourself that Sidney if it makes you feel better. This post is again the ultimate sign you've got no argument as every time you come across something you can't argue against, you resort to the childish abuse. I haven't had to go round in any circles, in fact I haven't had to move. You've proved your own theory wrong all by yourself with the riders you've trotted out. To break it down very simply for you... If we take an average season.. 13 teams in the top flight.. 17 teams in the National League. That gives us 91 riders in the top flight, 119 in the National League. 210 riders in total. The top 25% riders would be above average, the middle 50% average, the bottom 25% below average. You've already confirmed yourself the top league was much tougher.. which by your own words suggest the majority, if not all the top 25% are in the top league. Which only leaves us with average and below average left. Debate is over Sidney. Anyway, back on thread, good performance from Darcy last night on his comeback. Edited July 12, 2015 by BWitcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted July 12, 2015 Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 Keep telling yourself that Sidney if it makes you feel better. This post is again the ultimate sign you've got no argument as every time you come across something you can't argue against, you resort to the childish abuse. I haven't had to go round in any circles, in fact I haven't had to move. You've proved your own theory wrong all by yourself with the riders you've trotted out. To break it down very simply for you... If we take an average season.. 13 teams in the top flight.. 17 teams in the National League. That gives us 91 riders in the top flight, 119 in the National League. 210 riders in total. The top 25% riders would be above average, the middle 50% average, the bottom 25% below average. You've already confirmed yourself the top league was much tougher.. which by your own words suggest the majority, if not all the top 25% are in the top league. Which only leaves us with average and below average left. Debate is over Sidney. Anyway, back on thread, good performance from Darcy last night on his comeback. Debate was there ever one? with you anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted July 12, 2015 Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 Debate was there ever one? with you anyway. Correct, it was never a debate. Just you arguing against reality again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler42 Posted July 12, 2015 Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 What it tells me Sidney is what we already know. You haven't got the slightest clue what you are talking about. Run along and learn the meaning of the word mediocre, then we can continue the discussion. You are the one adding extra's in such as 'second rate' mediocre and 'crap' medicore. None of these things said by me.. just you in your paranoia. Mediocre = "of only average quality; not very good." Now, if riders were 'very good' they would be in the top flight of racing for the most part. Not even the top flight was full of riders that were 'very good', but we'll ignore that for now. Riders in the old National League, i.e. the SECOND division weren't as good as the top riders in the British League... i.e. the very good riders. By definition that makes them 'not very good'. Which of course makes them of average quality or mediocre. Once again Sidney, its a FACT. This does not mean they were bad riders, that's your own fabrication. Continue to argue all you like, but you are wrong. You've even argued against yourself (again). The reason promoters loaned riders out to the lower league first was because it was easier! i.e. not mega tough like the British League was. Who has said it was a crap product? You've created this fiction yourself Sidney. It wasn't a crap product, it was an excellent product. Serious question for you now Sidders.. Did any reserves from the old NL ever reach the World U-21 Final? Mark Loram, Chris Louis and Leigh Adams all at one time were Reserves in the National League. Not only did they reach it, two of them won it and Loram lost a run off to Adams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted July 12, 2015 Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 Mark Loram, Chris Louis and Leigh Adams all at one time were Reserves in the National League. Not only did they reach it, two of them won it and Loram lost a run off to Adams Read the question again. To make it clearer for you, did any reserves from the old NL reach the World U-21 Final WHILE they were riding at reserve in the NL? I don't know the answer so am genuinely interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Posted July 12, 2015 Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 Mark Loram, Chris Louis and Leigh Adams all at one time were Reserves in the National League. Not only did they reach it, two of them won it and Loram lost a run off to Adams Don't wish to be picky but Mark was never a NL reserve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazeaway Posted July 12, 2015 Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 My English is good anough to debate with the likes of you,oh sorry no one really debates with you do they unless they agree with you.The NL from my way of thinking you know nothing about it to be honest,you never saw half of the riders if any that i named.Yet your disgusting remark about past riders was uncalled for, tyler exposed you early on and you have been in a little strop ever since.Your best bet is to give Gustix a tinkle he will put you straight about the MEDIOCRE NL have a listen you might LEARN something. Definitely good anough, I think Witcher should opologise. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted July 12, 2015 Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 .Your best bet is to give Gustix a tinkle he will put you straight about the MEDIOCRE NL have a listen you might LEARN something. Leave gustix and his tinkles out of this.Anyway he has those rubber pants now,so can tinkle away in safety 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler42 Posted July 12, 2015 Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 Read the question again. To make it clearer for you, did any reserves from the old NL reach the World U-21 Final WHILE they were riding at reserve in the NL? I don't know the answer so am genuinely interested. I thought by adding the smiley, You would have known my answer was tongue in cheek. To be fair you did not say whilst riding at reserve in you original question. I like you don' know the answer either. At the end of the day we all have our own opinions and that's why this forum is fantastic. I was lucky to watch speedway both 1st and 2nd division speedway in the 70's, 80's, 90's and early 2000's. In my rose tinted glasses one of my favourite meetings of the season was the National League Riders Final at Wimbledon Packed to the rafters with an atmosphere second to none. Now a question for you. I think it very sad to see a British Speedway Final with 13 PL riders. Now in your view does that mean The Pl of today has to be of a much higher standard than from yesteryear or that the standard of British riders is the lowest it has ever been? Maybe they should omit Woffindon, Harris and Nicholls and call it the PLRC The nearest I get to a speedway meeting nowadays is in front of the TV. So maybe I'm not entitled to have a say but, In my opinion the PL Is a better product then the EL but does that make it a better standard? I would say no but, that once again is only my own opinion and not fact. The plan of the BSPA a few years ago was to bring both leagues closer in terms of standard and to save money. You only have to look at the number of PL DU Riders riding in the EL To see that in a way they have achieved what they set out to do. Don't wish to be picky but Mark was never a NL reserve. Sorry, of course he made his debut for Hackney in 87 in the British League Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted July 12, 2015 Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 And then of course there was the 2nd tier between 1960 and 1964, the Provincial League, with Ivan Mauger, Charlie Monk, Colin Pratt, Eric Boocock, Dave Younghusband, Ivor Brown, Trevor Redmond, Graham Warren, Maurie Mattingly, George Hunter, Norman Hunter, Ross Gilbertson, Jimmy Squibb, Reg Reeves, Ken Middleditch, Roy Trigg, Ray Wilson, Peter Vandenberg, Dick Bradley, Jack Kitchen, Clive Featherby, Tommy Roper, Jim Airey, Gordon Guasco, Bert Harkins......etc. etc. etc....... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman2006 Posted July 12, 2015 Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 Definitely good anough, I think Witcher should opologise. Good job you wrote that and not me !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted July 12, 2015 Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 Good job you wrote that and not me !! Whooosh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted July 12, 2015 Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 Good job you wrote that and not me !! Woosh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavan Posted July 12, 2015 Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 Good job you wrote that and not me !! whooosh Im still deciding whether you and Gavan are the same person. Do you have anything else to do with your time other than spending it all on this forum arguing the toss, because to me that is all you do, very much like Gavan. Funny that !! Must be something in the Suffolk water.. ah thanks for bringing me into every post you write..........you do have an obsession with me dont you? How about contributing to the debate or is that beyond you.? i happen to think Sidney is a very angry man and we dont get along on here but i make him right in this instance. Would be nice if you could contribute to a debate once in a while Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted July 12, 2015 Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 There is video on you tube of a Weymouth 1980s National League match. Watch it and then tell me it is a better standard than today's PL. It is not even the standard of the current NL. Incidentally the 70s and 80s had only two world champions who started in the New National/ National league. The last 12 years have had 4 riders who started their careers in the current second tier, it really doesnt indicate anything but others have cited it as a strength of the old second tier when in truth the current second tier has produced twice the amount of world champions 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted July 12, 2015 Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 (edited) There is video on you tube of a Weymouth 1980s National League match. I just looked for this. I found a top of the table clash between Weymouth and Middlesbrough. I haven't even finished watching heat 1 yet and I'm thinking that NL riders look more in control that this lot! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voEhlEEpvWg edit> While heat 2 is comedy It's MDL level! Edited July 12, 2015 by SCB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted July 12, 2015 Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 Weymouth v glasgow is on there and id very similar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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