SCB Posted June 27, 2015 Report Share Posted June 27, 2015 So that's 1 GP, 2 junior titles and an open meeting. Not my definition of great.Im far from Wards biggest fan but that's not a bad record for a 23(?) year old! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted June 27, 2015 Report Share Posted June 27, 2015 Norbold - I think the ones who won world champs post war are "safe" as the world championship is really the barometer of success. So I think the likes of fundin should remain safe, just as say pele will always remain on the list of football greats. And certainly those from 70s on should have no issues, as decent video footage exists. What about the pre war world champs. Why are they not safe? Same barometer? Even looking post war, who includes Jack Young or Tommy Price these days? The other problem is that as time goes by naturally more and more riders come to the fore. Whatever video exists of the 1970s, in 20 years time, we'll have had another 4,5,6 "greats" and people really won't remember the 70s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted June 27, 2015 Report Share Posted June 27, 2015 My 20 would be (not in order): Briggs mauger Moore Collins Lee craven funding michanek knuttson t Rick Hancock penhall gollob Nielsen gundersen Olsen n pedersen j crump young duggan Agree with all of them apart from Pedersen,wilkinson i would put above him certainly and like Duggan i would put Farndon and Huxley in the mix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted June 27, 2015 Report Share Posted June 27, 2015 What about the pre war world champs. Why are they not safe? Same barometer? Even looking post war, who includes Jack Young or Tommy Price these days? The other problem is that as time goes by naturally more and more riders come to the fore. Whatever video exists of the 1970s, in 20 years time, we'll have had another 4,5,6 "greats" and people really won't remember the 70s. Pre world war there were only 3 world finals, and no multi-time world champs. The majority of most people's top 20 would consist of riders with two or more crowns. And of course events such as world pairs, wtc/wc, blrc are more recent phenomenons with results readily accessible .And of course, which is probably your point, there is a natural bias towards riders we have seen racing ourselves. Of my list of 20 I'd say there are around 15 names which would be pretty much unanimous. But others such as gollob, michanek,Lee etc. could easily be replaced by riders from earlier years by those with a better knowledge than I of those eras. Norbold - when the "who would have won GPS had they been in place" discussion was had on this forum, do you recall who were identified as being likely multi world champs? Recall duggan was but not sure about the war years and earlier? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted June 27, 2015 Report Share Posted June 27, 2015 (edited) Norbold - when the "who would have won GPS had they been in place" discussion was had on this forum, do you recall who were identified as being likely multi world champs? Recall duggan was but not sure about the war years and earlier? Sorry, waihekeaces1, without looking it up I can't recall. But if the Grand Prix was in place from 1928 (in fact there was a similar system in operation in 1928 on A.J.Hunting's tracks, which included most of the top riders) to 1939, I'd say that there would have been three multiple world champs in Vic Huxley, Tom Farndon and Bluey Wilkinson. During the War is more difficult to say but maybe Vic Duggan, Aub Lawson, Tommy Price or Eric Chitty (but not all as obviously they couldn't all have won multiple times!). Edited June 27, 2015 by norbold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fullbore Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 Im far from Wards biggest fan but that's not a bad record for a 23(?) year old! How old was Tai when he bevame world champion? Niamh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mini Jack Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 How old was Tai when he bevame world champion? Niamh Picking at something that isn't there Niamh. SCB is merely pointing out the Ward's record to date isn't bad considering his age. Not enough to be considered a great, true, but not bad. Multiple World Champions are a must in a top 20 list surely. Plenty of one off winners but to do it again and then again brings an aura of greatness. Trick being the greatest of them all 👍. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris4gillian Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 Rickardsson was the best/greatest modern day rider, end of. Nobody could touch him on so many levels. I'm not qualified to comment on anyone pre-late 70's as that's when I started going to speedway with my father, but from then til now Rickardsson is without a shadow of doubt the best I've ever seen on a speedway bike. Majestic doesn't come close. IMO Ward has the talent to be as good as Rickardsson. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreverblue Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 I think Tai in his own way is nearer to T Rick than anyone else in the modern era and could go on to win many more gp titles, Ward is a fantastic rider and in league racing very few are his equal but in gp racing you need to get out the gate consistently and unless he improves his gating world championships are going to be a distant dream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arson fire Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 I predict Ward never to be world champ... 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 I predict Ward never to be world champ... Poole hater! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gee jay Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 darcy does have the talent but unfortunately that's where any similarities end 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 Was michanek really a great? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 Was michanek really a great? Well if he wasn't - he was bloody good!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screm Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 Darcy Ward #4⃣3⃣ @D_Dublu_racing 3h3 hours ago Is back !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 I'd agree with that twk but I'm not really sure he was a great,up there no doubt but always thought there was something missing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavan Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 Alot of judging a riders greatness is usually impaired by your own bias, i think alot of us do that.Out of all the Champions Pedersen who is a three time world champion for me he would not get in my all time top twenty.Alot would disagree but i would have Olsen,Gundersen,Lee,Nielsen,Sigalos,Adams,Gollob, all ahead of him mainly because of there ability and conduct.To name a all time top twenty it would be interesting to see how many of the GP stars got in it.?are you honestly saying you would have Leigh Adams above Nicki Pedersen in a list of great riders! In what respect? 3 x world champion against a two time rostrum placer! By your reckoning Jarek Hampel must be better then Nicki? Don't get me wrong as a person Adams is miles ahead but as a rider achieving greatness he is behind Nicki. Talk about great...how about the greatest to date...Darcy Ward is without doubt the most talented rider ever to throw his leg over a speedway bike. I have been watching speedway for nearly 60 years and have never seen a rider with so much time on a bike ...just as well he cannot gate otherwise it would be boring !!! no he isnt. I would say Mark Loram was more naturally talented than Darcy If you are looking for the word great in relation to speedway riders than Adams shouldn't be in the top 20. My favourite ever rider was Loram but even with only 1 world title I'm not sure he would make my top 20. Nicki Pedersen has to be in the top 20. Darcy Ward! Laughable to call him great he hasn't achieved anything of note yet. I say yet because the potential is there to be great but sadly the attitude isn't. My list would be Mauger Rickardsson Fundin Briggs Hancock Pedersen Nielsen Gundersen Olsen Penhall Craven Crump Lee Collins Ermolenko Wilkinson Jan O Pedersen Gollob Jonsson and ok for sentiment Loram. I don't think you can be classed as a true great without at least 1 world crown. Riders like Adams Knudsen and Morton for example were fantastic in the leagues but lacked something extra 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 No michanek in gavans list.I may be onto something! Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman2006 Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 . I would say Mark Loram was more naturally talented than Darcy I was a big fan of Mark, but i think your wrong there, Darcy is far more naturally gifted than Mark. Mark had to work for what he got, Darcy finds it all so naturally easy, the same applies to Brady Kurtz. Anyway, i thought you'd left..Clearly not.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YerRopes Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 I was a big fan of Mark, but i think your wrong there, Darcy is far more naturally gifted than Mark. Mark had to work for what he got, Darcy finds it all so naturally easy, the same applies to Brady Kurtz. Anyway, i thought you'd left..Clearly not.. Darcy is the most talented rider I've ever seen, end of... I hope he can finally sort himself out, perhaps Rosco can assist and help him should his temporary move to Swindon take place... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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