pugwash Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 Sometimes it's the posts that are written in all seriousness, with heavy handed gravity and import, that are just plain hilarious. To prick your balloon. No he won't. If my learned friend could amplify? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 The FIM had better have a water tight case against Darcy as he will be able to take them to the European courts for prohibiting him from earning his rightfull living in Europe, from the day he was first suspended. Which European Court are you talking about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Central Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 If my learned friend could amplify? There is no European court issue here at all. The FIM issued a totally legal WORLDWIDE motorcycling suspension. As is their jurisdiction. You may equate this to some contrived Euro issue. But as I say. You are quite the comic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 There is no European court issue here at all. The FIM issued a totally legal WORLDWIDE motorcycling suspension. As is their jurisdiction. You may equate this to some contrived Euro issue. But as I say. You are quite the comic. BUT, hypothetically so please don't try and make two and two make five, what if that suspension was based on a false premise? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Central Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 BUT, hypothetically so please don't try and make two and two make five, what if that suspension was based on a false premise? It is still not a 'European' issue. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salty Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 Surely the first place to appeal any action (or lack of) once you are through the FIM process is the Court of Arbitration for Sport. Given what Ward himself said in his interview in Latvia (bad news, drinks with meal, lack of re-hydration) I suspect he would struggle to make a worthwhile case. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 (edited) BUT, hypothetically so please don't try and make two and two make five, what if that suspension was based on a false premise? Why is that making two and two equal five? There is no European court that an issue like this can be taken to. That seems to be making four to me. Edited October 5, 2014 by norbold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 WHAT about a British court? The ACU are affiliates of the FIM. When messrs Briggs, Mauger and Oxley sued the FIM way back in the late seventies, the FIM tried to argue that they were not subject to courts in California. They lost, the California Supreme Court decreeing that as the AMA were agents of the FIM they did come under their jurisdiction. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARK246 Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 ALCOHOL tests at SGP events are held under the supervision of FIM officials but are usually conducted by the attending medical official or a policeman which I believe was the case in Daugavpils. The actual testing instrument will be supplied by those carrying out the procedure. BUT, hypothetically so please don't try and make two and two make five, what if that suspension was based on a false premise? What false premise would that be, If the test was in accordance with protocol, which your post on 14th sept suggests it was, then the FIM are correct with their suspension. Ward would haved signed a contract to ride in the SGP, in which he agreed to adhere to the FIM's sporting code. By turning up to ride in a SGP with alcohol in his system, he is breaking his contract as this is against the sporting code 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 (edited) WHAT about a British court? The ACU are affiliates of the FIM. When messrs Briggs, Mauger and Oxley sued the FIM way back in the late seventies, the FIM tried to argue that they were not subject to courts in California. They lost, the California Supreme Court decreeing that as the AMA were agents of the FIM they did come under their jurisdiction. That was because the dispute was with the AMA, who the court said were acting as agents of the FIM, therefore they were allowed to sue the FIM. In this case the dispute is directly with the FIM; the ACU have nothing to do with it. But in any case the laws concerning international sporting bodies have changed significantly since the 1970s The only option open to Ward if the decision goes against him is to appeal to the Court of Arbitration for Sport which has the supreme international authority to rule in sporting matters when the international governing body of a sport has made a ruling. There is no other course of appeal open. Edited October 5, 2014 by norbold 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pugwash Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 (edited) WHAT about a British court? The ACU are affiliates of the FIM. When messrs Briggs, Mauger and Oxley sued the FIM way back in the late seventies, the FIM tried to argue that they were not subject to courts in California. They lost, the California Supreme Court decreeing that as the AMA were agents of the FIM they did come under their jurisdiction. Thanks for that PR. i knew that had been some legal issue with The FIM in the past that's why i brought up the notion of a potential court action. There is no European court issue here at all. The FIM issued a totally legal WORLDWIDE motorcycling suspension. As is their jurisdiction. You may equate this to some contrived Euro issue. But as I say. You are quite the comic. Why are you taking an offensive attitude, GC? I'm not trying to be comical, just raising an issue that i thought could be applicable to this case, which due to lack of statements/actions so far looks like there's could be some kind of legal issues abound. That was because the dispute was with the AMA, who the court said were acting as agents of the FIM, therefore they were allowed to sue the FIM. In this case the dispute is directly with the FIM; the ACU have nothing to do with it. But in any case the laws concerning international sporting bodies have changed significantly since the 1970s The only option open to Ward if the decision goes against him is to appeal to the Court of Arbitration for Sport which has the supreme international authority to rule in sporting matters when the international governing body of a sport has made a ruling. There is no other course of appeal open. Thanks for that, Norbold. i knew there was some 'court' that dealt with this type of sporting dispute. Edited October 5, 2014 by pugwash 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 MY thanks too for the constructive and informative comments ... nice to have such a debate on a Sunday. If only it was always thus... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theknow 2 Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 BUT, hypothetically so please don't try and make two and two make five, what if that suspension was based on a false premise? So the test wasnt carried out properly the equipment wasnt tested or calibrated as per manufacturers specs. Just let him off and we can all move on after the lastest sorry storey in the life of Ward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 WHAT about a British court? The ACU are affiliates of the FIM. Why would a Latvian GP have anything to do with the ACU? It'll either be under the FIM which is incorporated in Switzerland, or very arguably under the Latvia FMN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 Does Ward hold an ACU licence? If so that is his route to FIM affiliation. No idea if that makes a difference legally but it is a way that could involve the ACU. Since he admitted on TV that he was likely to be over the limit it seems unlikely that he is going to be able to get off completely on a technicality. My own opinion is that he needs a fairly harsh punishment as a warning that he needs to sort himself out. Speedway may need riders like him but it needs people who behave like he does off the track like a hole in the head. If he continues as he has been doing the sport would be better without him. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 Why would a Latvian GP have anything to do with the ACU? It'll either be under the FIM which is incorporated in Switzerland, or very arguably under the Latvia FMN. NOTHING to do with a Latvian GP. If (not saying it will happen!) the FIM are found to have suspended a rider who is subsequently found not guilty of the charge are they open to litigation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 If (not saying it will happen!) the FIM are found to have suspended a rider who is subsequently found not guilty of the charge are they open to litigation? The whole matter of suspending competitors before a proper hearing has been held goes somewhat against natural justice, and I'd imagine on shaky legal ground if it came to the crunch. Equally though, if a rider tests over the limit before a meeting, then they can hardly be allowed to race. One would hope an alcohol test organised by a world governing body would follow a procedure that could be legally be upheld, and if things have been done correctly, then goodness knows why it should take so long to hold a formal hearing. If the FIM has managed to stuff-up something so simple, or even worse, if someone somewhere wants to manipulate Ward into the SGP next season, then the sport really has lost any remaining credibility it might have. One might forlornly hope that a journal of record might get to the bottom of such a potential scandal.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theknow 2 Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 The whole matter of suspending competitors before a proper hearing has been held goes somewhat against natural justice, and I'd imagine on shaky legal ground if it came to the crunch. Equally though, if a rider tests over the limit before a meeting, then they can hardly be allowed to race. One would hope an alcohol test organised by a world governing body would follow a procedure that could be legally be upheld, and if things have been done correctly, then goodness knows why it should take so long to hold a formal hearing. If the FIM has managed to stuff-up something so simple, or even worse, if someone somewhere wants to manipulate Ward into the SGP next season, then the sport really has lost any remaining credibility it might have. One might forlornly hope that a journal of record might get to the bottom of such a potential scandal.. It would appear anything to do with Speedway is a joke these days. Wonder why not many companies are attracted to the sport and the fan base falls year on year !!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 (edited) As I said before, if Ward is found guilty by the FIM his only recourse is through the Court of Arbitration for Sport. If he is found not guilty, his recourse for compensation may be through the same route or possibly through the Swiss court as that is where the FIM is based. However, Swiss courts have been reluctant in the past to get involved in these sort of issues and that's probably why a number of International sporting bodies are incorporated there. Edited October 6, 2014 by norbold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheReturn Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 The whole matter of suspending competitors before a proper hearing has been held goes somewhat against natural justice, and I'd imagine on shaky legal ground if it came to the crunch. Equally though, if a rider tests over the limit before a meeting, then they can hardly be allowed to race. Happens in cricket too, those bowlers wit weird actions are suspended whilst it is investigated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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