Coventry Vs Swindon 18/8/14

[Fromafar]

Well,I for one thoroughly enjoyed the meeting it had controversy,good racing,riders and managers moaning etc.Bad part was riders falling,hope they are okay.A few points,about time the refs stamped out this delaying the start,good on him for that,and surely riders should be able to adapt to any track conditions.some of the younger riders on show,Worral,Garrity ,sergeant,North seemed to adapt brilliantly maybe it's a mindset of some of the older riders,Bomber excluded,much rather watch meetings like this than most of the bore fests that have been on lately?

While it is unclear what was said before the meeting started regarding the introduction of the clock,I agree the Ref went by the clock and that should have stopped all the messing about at the start and after a couple of exclusions it did.Fair play to him needs to be done at ALL tracks though to avoid confusion.Kelvin and Pearson were only concerned regarding Transmission time ,every other week Kelvin is moaning about the messing about at starts and restarts.

[Bee 26]

Track was poor and no need for all that dust, it was rideable and as Chris Louis said he has seen worse. Harris showed everyone how to ride it in his last 3 heats....perhaps MJJ and Hansen should take notice!

 

About time the refs clamped down on riders messing about at the start, we should have the 2 minutes countdown for all matches.

 

Hopefully track will be better for Friday and more points on the board and for a tenner too!

[mdmc82]

Well,I for one thoroughly enjoyed the meeting it had controversy,good racing,riders and managers moaning etc.Bad part was riders falling,hope they are okay.A few points,about time the refs stamped out this delaying the start,good on him for that,and surely riders should be able to adapt to any track conditions.some of the younger riders on show,Worral,Garrity ,sergeant,North seemed to adapt brilliantly maybe it's a mindset of some of the older riders,Bomber excluded,much rather watch meetings like this than most of the bore fests that have been on lately?

Agree, had bit of everything and seen much worse.

Swindons biggest problem away from home is they always travel with a negative attitude. Have seen it every time they are on sky.

Rosco should be motivating his riders instead of sulking, and would give Captain role to Simon or PK instead of Batchelor.

[Grachan]

While it is unclear what was said before the meeting started regarding the introduction of the clock,I agree the Ref went by the clock and that should have stopped all the messing about at the start and after a couple of exclusions it did.Fair play to him needs to be done at ALL tracks though to avoid confusion.Kelvin and Pearson were only concerned regarding Transmission time ,every other week Kelvin is moaning about the messing about at starts and restarts.

 

Fair play? Seriously?

 

Ok, so if the ref wants to do a system where the clock runs out and riders who aren't ready are excluded, would it not be a good idea to mention it to the team managers at the start? The home side team manager wasn't even aware that there was even a clock there, let alone have an idea of how this system was going to work.

 

Also, why was Gustafsson excluded when he was at the start and ready to race before Jepsen Jensen? Why was Worrall excluded? He was at the start line? The start marshall had absolutely no idea what was going on. Surely if a rider was going against his orders he'd have some sort of idea who was being excluded.

 

Then, in a later heat when Greaves was excluded, the two Coventry riders were not at the tapes when the 2 minutes expired. If Worrall and Gustafsson were excluded earlier, why weren't they?

 

It was absolutely dreadful refereeing. A complete shambles and, at best, biased.

 

Sure, if there is to be a system where riders have to be ready to race at the end of 2 minutes then have that. But it needs to be applied consistently and fairly. Plus, everyone needs to know about it.

 

Stunningly bad.

[SCB]

Also, why was Gustafsson excluded when he was at the start and ready to race before Jepsen Jensen? Why was Worrall excluded? He was at the start line? The start marshall had absolutely no idea what was going on. Surely if a rider was going against his orders he'd have some sort of idea who was being excluded.

Watch that one again. MJJ pulls back despite being ready and points out to the referee than Gustafsson is not ready and then the red light goes on. I wonder if after heat 1 and excluding Hans, Havvy told the Coventry boys to watch out for it so MJJ tried to get him excluded? Just because he wasn't ready when the red light come on doesn't mean he wasn't ready. All in all a farce though.

 

As for the 2 Coventry riders in heat 9, the rule is to be under starters control. The start marshal clearly told all 3 riders to pull back from the tapes and wait.

[Red Robin]

We unfortunately made the journey from Bristol to watch this meeting, think we went to a circus and the clowns had taken over. What a fiasco, especially the ref and the start marshall ( are they related?). Knew the Robins would lose without our No 1 but we sat in total disbelief at all the rubbish decisions and everything else that was wrong. Got there at 7pm, didn't see a parade or any sign of introducing the riders,did we miss it? No P.A on the centre "Grey area "so couldn't hear what was happening especially at the start when all the shennanagens were beyond belief. Worall had 3 races on the trot for god's sake, the ref should have allowed for that. The presentation at Brandon is beyond diabolical. Wish we could get our money back, was a waste of both, petrol and time. The coventry supportors in the main stand were jeering the start marshall , he was shocking . As for the two 5-1's, why bother?

As we were leaving, three Coventry fans apologised to us for what ,even they saw as a shocking meeting. Why the hell do the riders have to ride such a long way from the pits to get on the track? All in all a terrible advert for speedway. Robinson should be sacked pronto!!!!

[Midland Red]

Conclusions from last night:

 

1. I've said all along that live televising of league matches is not good for the sport - there are necessary (and a lot of unnecessary) gaps during meetings which are difficult to fill/explain - new customers will not be attracted by that. However, a highlights "Match of the Day" programme would be much more likely to appeal to potential supporters - imagine seeing Harris, Howarth and Garrity in action for the first time in a highlights show, and realising that just along the A428 at Brandon they could be seen live - that would be more likely to attract new fans

2. Whatever, Sky, in whatever form (Russell or not), should be nowhere near track preparation - there is no reason to doubt what FTM posted, and clearly there was interference/influence yesterday towards the end of a programme of track prep started late on Saturday night!

3. Similarly, there was also interference/influence on the track maintenance during the meeting, so that grading was not as it should have been and watering was not permitted - if this is down to programme scheduling, then it again supports my case against live televising

4. Clearly there was a poor attendance, which is not unusual for a televised meeting (another support to my argument), but also Monday night is not a good night for Coventry speedway fans, brought up on, firstly, Saturday night racing, and latterly Fridays (after an experiment with Thursdays), and therefore the idea of a single night for EL racing, the most common suggestion for which seems to be Monday, would not suit, for example, Coventry - and of course, this would limit home meetings to every other week when fans have, over the years (postponements aside), enjoyed regularly weekly home meetings

5. The absence of a guest to replace Swindon's no.1 highlights the fact that Monday night racing is not ideal when other teams are racing and foreign-based riders are not interested in, or available for, flying to the UK for a guest appearance

6. There appeared to have been a lack of communication prior to the meeting about the use of the clock introduced for this meeting, and this clearly caught riders and managers unaware early on, resulting in perhaps harsh exclusions - however, if the use of a clock, with clear rules for its use, can be introduced throughout the league(s), then this will aid a reduction in the amount of gardening/hole digging/clutch adjustment which has grown out of all proportion in recent times, and is a big turn-off to many supporters - if implemented thoughtfully, it will be of benefit to the fans

7. This forum quite regularly calls into question the level of ability of a number of referees, and, even apart from the time exclusions last night, there appeared to be several cases where exclusion lights were not shown for some considerable time after the race stoppage light had come on - whether this highlights a failure in decision making or an inability to use the controls provided, it does suggest that referees need to be assessed on a regular basis in order to either withdraw those who fail to reach the correct standard or to enable them to improve - there also appeared to be a lack of good communication between referee and starting marshal at times, which only added to unnecessary delays

8. Overall, it appeared that Coventry riders "wanted it more" than many of Swindon's, although it was unfortunate that their no.1 was absent and a reserve had so many machinery problems - perhaps the visiting team manager failed to generate sufficient enthusiasm amongst his whole squad to raise their game when it was necessary

9. Apart from speedway in general, the big losers last night were the Coventry promotion - they set out before their two-home-meetings-in-four-days situation by making an admission price offer to those attending both, and when the first meeting was rained off, they made sure that the price reduction was maintained for those who had paid to enter the stadium for the postponed meeting last Friday - none of the points 1. to 8. made above can be blamed on Mick Horton and his promotion, and if the the meeting which turned into, at times, a fiasco, even leaving Kelvin Tatum speechless, results in a loss of existing supporters or potential new ones, that is very bad news as all of the issues were out of the control of Coventry Speedway - had television just shown a highlights package - and there was in the event some excellent racing - then, as mentioned in 1. above, perhaps the promotion could be looking forward to increased levels of support

[philfromcov]

I dont see what the ref did wrong?

 

its about time riders stopped messing around and get on with it, Worrall wasn't at the tapes before the two minutes, it was quite clear from where i was, obviously he had made it plain he wants all riders up at the tapes for two minutes.

 

in the later heat when greaves was excluded, the clock wasn't on and the starting official was on his phone to confirm only three riders.

 

batchelors attitude stank the place out the pathetic fall was so childish.

 

the two minutes is the rule well done to the ref for actually using it!

 

on a different point im sure heat two only had three laps can someone check?

[krompa]

It was pure pleasure to watch Harris last night. If only GP tracks were grippy....

I want to believe he still has something to prove on a world stage. But he needs to:

-lose weight

-finally get some quick equipment for slick tracks

-still work very hard on gating as his gatng technique is very bad

 

Hopefully next season we will see good, improved version of Bomber. Have to say that he is one of only few pure racers this days.

[oldace]

15.3 The time from the finish of a heat to the start of the next shall not exceed 5 minutes (including

the 2-minute allowance) except if the Referee allows extra time for Track Maintenance or

other valid reason. Where a re-run is necessary due to non-compliance with SR15.3.4 the 2-

minute allowance shall be given following a 1 minute delay. The time allowance will be shown

on a Countdown Clock if present, which must be used and strictly adhered to at all Televised

Meetings or by way of an audible siren and flashing amber lamp.

15.3.4 Riders must be either “ready to race” or provided the Rider is in the correct Gate Position and

is “under the control of the Start Marshal” within the permitted Time Allowance. Failure to

comply is a Starting offence. Additionally it is a Starting offence to a) not comply with the Start

Marshal instructions, wrongly prevent the raising of the Start gate or © if any part of the

motorcycle touches or breaks the tapes after the Green Starting Light has been displayed.

The ref applies the rules exactly as laid down and he is incompetent.

Edited August 19, 2014 by Oldace

[jim3751]

Rosko wears his heart on his sleeve which can be a breath of fresh air at times but when he's down he's sending the wrong message to his team. Even after Anderson's exclusion in heat 1 Havvy accepted the decision and moved on. It's a proffessional sport. Take it and adapt and call the ref an idiot when it's all over.

[mdmc82]

Bees wanted it more. Harris raced brilliantly on the same track.

Don't think Swindon have the right attitude.

[SCB]

 

15.3 The time from the finish of a heat to the start of the next shall not exceed 5 minutes (including

the 2-minute allowance) except if the Referee allows extra time for Track Maintenance or

other valid reason. Where a re-run is necessary due to non-compliance with SR15.3.4 the 2-

minute allowance shall be given following a 1 minute delay. The time allowance will be shown

on a Countdown Clock if present, which must be used and strictly adhered to at all Televised

Meetings or by way of an audible siren and flashing amber lamp.

15.3.4 Riders must be either “ready to race” or provided the Rider is in the correct Gate Position and

is “under the control of the Start Marshal” within the permitted Time Allowance. Failure to

comply is a Starting offence. Additionally it is a Starting offence to a) not comply with the Start

Marshal instructions, wrongly prevent the raising of the Start gate or © if any part of the

motorcycle touches or breaks the tapes after the Green Starting Light has been displayed.

The ref applies the rules exactly as laid down and he is incompetent.

 

15.3.4 suggests Gustafsson should not have been excluded. It's certainly very harsh. Hans was his own fault - why go back to the pits if you dont need to?

[JT]

It was pure pleasure to watch Harris last night. If only GP tracks were grippy....

I want to believe he still has something to prove on a world stage. But he needs to:

-lose weight

-finally get some quick equipment for slick tracks

-still work very hard on gating as his gatng technique is very bad

 

Hopefully next season we will see good, improved version of Bomber. Have to say that he is one of only few pure racers this days.

I'm sorry but how many chances does the guy need? It's alright doing it against a weakened Swindon side in the Delete League, but this season he has been absolutely abysmal in the GP series, has dropped to reserve in Sweden, and he's a middle of the road heat leader in the Polish Second Tier. Hardly great credentials for proving himself on the world stage.

 

Nobody is doubting Harris is an exciting rider when the track looks like an allotment, but the vast majority of circuits aren't like that. He's been riding in the GP series (thanks to the charity of the organisers mainly) almost every season since 2007, and he still can't figure out how to set up his bikes on slick tracks? What makes you think that's going to change? Likewise his gating; a hugely significant attribute for a rider.

 

Harris is a good EL rider (not a No.1 I would add), but he's had his chance to prove himself on the world stage, and 2007 and 2010 aside, has hardly shown himself in a great light.

 

JT.

 

Edited August 19, 2014 by JT

[Grachan]

15.3.4 suggests Gustafsson should not have been excluded. It's certainly very harsh. Hans was his own fault - why go back to the pits if you dont need to?

 

Actually 15.3.4 makes no sense at all.

 

"Riders must be either “ready to race” or provided the Rider is in the correct Gate Position and is “under the control of the Start Marshal” within the permitted Time Allowance. "??

What does that mean?

[Star Lady]

Conclusions from last night:

 

1. I've said all along that live televising of league matches is not good for the sport - there are necessary (and a lot of unnecessary) gaps during meetings which are difficult to fill/explain - new customers will not be attracted by that. However, a highlights "Match of the Day" programme would be much more likely to appeal to potential supporters - imagine seeing Harris, Howarth and Garrity in action for the first time in a highlights show, and realising that just along the A428 at Brandon they could be seen live - that would be more likely to attract new fans

2. Whatever, Sky, in whatever form (Russell or not), should be nowhere near track preparation - there is no reason to doubt what FTM posted, and clearly there was interference/influence yesterday towards the end of a programme of track prep started late on Saturday night!

3. Similarly, there was also interference/influence on the track maintenance during the meeting, so that grading was not as it should have been and watering was not permitted - if this is down to programme scheduling, then it again supports my case against live televising

4. Clearly there was a poor attendance, which is not unusual for a televised meeting (another support to my argument), but also Monday night is not a good night for Coventry speedway fans, brought up on, firstly, Saturday night racing, and latterly Fridays (after an experiment with Thursdays), and therefore the idea of a single night for EL racing, the most common suggestion for which seems to be Monday, would not suit, for example, Coventry - and of course, this would limit home meetings to every other week when fans have, over the years (postponements aside), enjoyed regularly weekly home meetings

5. The absence of a guest to replace Swindon's no.1 highlights the fact that Monday night racing is not ideal when other teams are racing and foreign-based riders are not interested in, or available for, flying to the UK for a guest appearance

6. There appeared to have been a lack of communication prior to the meeting about the use of the clock introduced for this meeting, and this clearly caught riders and managers unaware early on, resulting in perhaps harsh exclusions - however, if the use of a clock, with clear rules for its use, can be introduced throughout the league(s), then this will aid a reduction in the amount of gardening/hole digging/clutch adjustment which has grown out of all proportion in recent times, and is a big turn-off to many supporters - if implemented thoughtfully, it will be of benefit to the fans

7. This forum quite regularly calls into question the level of ability of a number of referees, and, even apart from the time exclusions last night, there appeared to be several cases where exclusion lights were not shown for some considerable time after the race stoppage light had come on - whether this highlights a failure in decision making or an inability to use the controls provided, it does suggest that referees need to be assessed on a regular basis in order to either withdraw those who fail to reach the correct standard or to enable them to improve - there also appeared to be a lack of good communication between referee and starting marshal at times, which only added to unnecessary delays

8. Overall, it appeared that Coventry riders "wanted it more" than many of Swindon's, although it was unfortunate that their no.1 was absent and a reserve had so many machinery problems - perhaps the visiting team manager failed to generate sufficient enthusiasm amongst his whole squad to raise their game when it was necessary

9. Apart from speedway in general, the big losers last night were the Coventry promotion - they set out before their two-home-meetings-in-four-days situation by making an admission price offer to those attending both, and when the first meeting was rained off, they made sure that the price reduction was maintained for those who had paid to enter the stadium for the postponed meeting last Friday - none of the points 1. to 8. made above can be blamed on Mick Horton and his promotion, and if the the meeting which turned into, at times, a fiasco, even leaving Kelvin Tatum speechless, results in a loss of existing supporters or potential new ones, that is very bad news as all of the issues were out of the control of Coventry Speedway - had television just shown a highlights package - and there was in the event some excellent racing - then, as mentioned in 1. above, perhaps the promotion could be looking forward to increased levels of support

 

 

Excellent post.

[Halifaxtiger]

you are welcome to your opinion but no way was there any skimping (as you call it) on the track prep .When Sky are involved they need to understand how to prepare a track and what time scales you need leading up to the meeting commencement.This has been and always will be out of their remit as they have no bloody idea whatsoever as was proved tonight .The track prep was put on hold from 3.30 as regards ripping the track on the bends and as there was a threat of rain forecast from 4pm there had already been a heavy localised downpour at 2.30onwards so at that time the track was smooth but drying out as the afternoon went on .At 6.30 with only 1 hr to go a panic situation arose from Sky we need bends ripped up to give some outside overtaking moves .Now yourself and probably 90% of fans don,t realize it isn,t possible to rip this late without losing a certain amount of what was a good track up until then .By the time the trackwork had finished it was too late to water to any degree of success when Sky had a 7.30 start deadline so track now having been opened up is going to dry the more the evening goes on .Now I would like to know having been told 7.30 National Anthem why was there then a 20+min delay before we saw any bikes on track .Then the pedantic and stupid (IMO) refereeing in the opening few heats the track is deteroiating even more with no chance to water or grade .The final problem as regards getting a chance to redeem any hope of providing any success at all was the Sky company , or whoever was the tv coverage provider, told the track prep guys they were only allowed two laps after 4,7,10 and 14 as the coverage was being wrapped up by 21.05 as they had other highlights to include in the 2 hr show .This is not a cop out in any way shape or form as the track was poor but the weekend incl Friday ,s rain off onwards there was a lot of work done preparing the track from early Sat morning for 16 Stock Car /Banger races 5 pm to 10 30pm then up until 2 am Sun morning when things to do with the Dogs then had to be started for Sun nights meeting then change again Mon ready for a tv meeting .Being close to most of the work this weekend I thought I would put the opinion from the other side of the fence to probably a lot of you fans that are not party to what goes on .. Reference Stox at Eastbourne they don,t run on the speedway track

 

Maybe 'skimping' wasn't the right word. How about 'incompetent' instead.

 

Every week we hear excuses for poor track preparation - weather, stock cars, greyhounds, not enough time, poor equipment - and now we have a new one - the TV company.

 

How dare Sky want entertaining racing for their paying subscribers. They'll be wanting meetings that run to time and full teams next.

 

If its so difficult to prepare a decent track, how is it the norm at Scunthorpe ? How do Belle Vue do it ? Or Wolverhampton ? Or Mildenhall ? The answer is because they have track curators who know what they are doing, and rarely do you go to any of those tracks and see a poor surface.

 

I have had the pleasure of working with Robert Huggins in the past and he could turn a track destroyed by stock cars the night before into a superb racing strip in a matter of hours. Having worked with Bob Ellis, I know he only starts on the morning of a meeting.

 

The best comment made last night was 'I have seen worse'. Hardly complimentary, is it ?

 

We all know the weather affects track preparation but hearing the same excuse week after week simply isn't good enough. If one track can be consistently good, all the others can.

 

These are a few of the comments about Coventry v Belle Vue:

 

Thank god that this wasn't on Sky. Track was so poor.

Terrible track, poor meeting,

that meeting was a complete and utter borefest of some of the most processional racing that I have witnessed in many years

Why is the track so terrible?

thought it was 'another midlands track' for a minute I was watching...

all riders 30 yards apart, straight legged drifting across the apex of the turn unable to bring the rear wheel round until pulling an almighty locker to prevent themselves hitting the fence...

is that polish fella back??

Not the best is it.

The track was substandard Not the racing.

 

What was the excuse that time ?

 

I can't comment much on Coventry's track this season - I don't go there because the track and the racing have been rubbish in the past - but it seems that last night was anything but a one off.

 

The thing is it can't be underestimated just how important the quality of the track surface is - in fact, I'd say it is the single most important issue in the running of any meeting. Good surfaces mean good racing which means entertainment for paying customers which means people will come back and bring others with them. Crap track surfaces mean the complete opposite.

Edited August 19, 2014 by Halifaxtiger

[SCB]

The track last night was nothing like the track for the BV meeting. The one had dirt and was pathcy while the other was slicker than Ronnie Russells head.

[RobMcCaffery]

He's not in charge of Track Prep when Sky are around - it's a BSF myth. Went last night, less said about it the better unfortunately. One of those nights.

They're good on mythology at Rye House.

[oldace]

You deserve to be pulled for speeding when travelling at 30.0000000001mph in a 30 zone!

 

Only a complete idiot applies rules to the letter when common sense and judgement suggests a bit of leeway is applied, especially when that leeway is available and considered acceptable.

 

 

 

 

But then where do you draw the line. Yes you could allow 10 seconds extra, it takes longer to do the exclusion and get going again after all, but then wahat about the guy who is 15 seconds out, its only 5 seconds over the additional 10 seconds so common sense should apply ? OK but then the guy who is 25 seconds later than the two minutes !!!!!!!

 

It is far easier to have set parameters and stick to them than have a loose 2 mins that can stretch to 3.

 

Problem being as the rules are always only loosely applied by most refs (you might say they usually use a bit of common sense) then when one comes along who decides to apply them rigidly we end up with last night.

 

I don't disagree with what Dave Robinson was doing but it might have been an idea for him to brief the riders beforehand on his methods.

 

If ultimately it gets rid of the tiresome antics before each race the I endorse his stance.

 

Sadly the early showing on this made a bit of a mockery of a TV match.

 

Shades of Frank Ebdon in 1984