Ghostwalker Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 (edited) Dudek suspended for two years according to Swedish newspapers Expressen and Nerikes Allehanda http://www.expressen.se/sport/motor/dackarnas-dudek-avstangd-for-doping/ http://na.se/sporten/speedway/1.2603807-bekraftat-dackarnas-stjarna-dopad Edited August 22, 2014 by Ghostwalker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 He's young with no previous, and we are not talking Balco (organised steroids abuse in baseball) here, and quite possibly inadvertant. I'd have thought a one year ban sufficient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandorum Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 (edited) Methylhexanamine seems to be the drug being quoted in some reports. That's easy for you to say Sadly speedway has two big decisions to make with Ward and Dudek. A message must be sent to the rest of the riders and the two riders in question must be made to understand how serious this is. But to ban for a long time 2 of the best prospects we have is a bit like asking a cat to look after your goldfish. Insane. They need to know that they have been punished but I don't envy those who hand out the punishment. Leniency will be foolish but Draconian could be even worse. Also it's time speedway looked at ways of policing this kind of thing that keeps costs down but makes riders aware that they can be tested before during and after meetings. Two black days for speedway Edited August 22, 2014 by pandorum 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostwalker Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 (edited) He's young with no previous, and we are not talking Balco (organised steroids abuse in baseball) here, and quite possibly inadvertant. I'd have thought a one year ban sufficient. 2 years is normal for a first time offence. Evy Sachenbacher got suspended for two years for the same substance so two years is standard for this kind of offence. http://news.biharprabha.com/2014/07/german-olympic-champion-evi-sachenbacher-banned-for-doping/ Perhaps he didn't intend to dope himself but from a juridical point if view it does not matter since it then would "excuse" themselves with "I didn't take it intentionally. However it is quite strange that Nerikes Allehanda is the only news source that writes this (Expresses quotes NA), Edited August 22, 2014 by Ghostwalker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 Amazing, his second sample comes back 2 days ago yet he's already banned for 2 days, Ward failed 3 tests on Sunday and is still riding! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DutchGrasstrack Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 Sad day for the sport.... realy wonder what 'I had some bad news bla bla' Ward will get for punishment .... However it is quite strange that Nerikes Allehanda is the only news source that writes this (Expresses quotes NA), Maybe another Google translate c*ck up? Happened before lol Polish media also have nothing yet... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostwalker Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 Sad day for the sport.... realy wonder what 'I had some bad news bla bla' Ward will get for punishment .... Maybe another Google translate c*ck up? Happened before lol Polish media also have nothing yet... I also think now that is is a translation error and that they misinterpreted the maximum possible length of the suspension (2 years) as a definite ruling from FIM. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f-s-p Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 2 years is normal for a first time offence. Evy Sachenbacher got suspended for two years for the same substance so two years is standard for this kind of offence. http://news.biharprabha.com/2014/07/german-olympic-champion-evi-sachenbacher-banned-for-doping/ Perhaps he didn't intend to dope himself but from a juridical point if view it does not matter since it then would "excuse" themselves with "I didn't take it intentionally. However it is quite strange that Nerikes Allehanda is the only news source that writes this (Expresses quotes NA), Nerikens Allehand = Kumla. Indianerna vs Dudeks Dackarna... Getting the picture... = ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lioness Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 the problem is that it IS possible to have products within things that are not readily identified and yes there can be 'innocent' ingenstion. As Alain Baxter found out - Vicks in America has different ingredients from Vicks in the UK and that was how he was caught out. They decided ignorance was not an excuse and he lost his Olympic medal (something I always felt was unfair tbh as I felt he had a legitimate case) Methylhexanamine as Ive already said is in a lot of dietary supplements. If it is listed as a banned substance it is easy to look at the ingredients and say 'yip, theres that nasty methylhexanamine, I wont take it. However what would you think if you saw geranium extract? Sounds innocent enough, I bet most would think that must be a natural product and ok. They'd be wrong as geranium extract and methylhexanamine are the same thing. I've had to learn a lot of these things and it is not as easy as you think to pick out things to avoid. A lot will depend on identifying what the methylhexanamine was in. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screm Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 Hhhhmmmm Dudek is in serious trouble now. However a 2 year ban sounds ridiculous. A fine and a slap on the wrist and then let Patryk get on with his career. Its just my opinion like you have yours. All well and good, but like it or not, Dudek has taking something illegal, there cant be degrees of wrongness in this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 The punishment for Dudek is a fine plus minimum of 6 months to a maximum of 2 years, according to FIM rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f-s-p Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 The punishment for Dudek is a fine plus minimum of 6 months to a maximum of 2 years, according to FIM rules. But if WADA says so, its 2 years. This is from someone else's post earlier stating if FIM is not strict enough, WADA steps in... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lioness Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 All well and good, but like it or not, Dudek has taking something illegal, there cant be degrees of wrongness in this. Sorry screm but you are wrong. Im not saying it is the case here but it IS possible he could have taken it innocently and they have to make sure that its not been a genuine mistake. Looking for a simpler example, do you suffer from hayfever? Hayfever sufferers often take some form of antihystamine that can be bought over the counter. What a lot of people probably dont realise is some brands include a compound that includes a 'banned' substance under FIM rules whilst other brands do not. If they have checked that its okay to take antihystamine in general and been told yes is it reasonable to know that there are a couple of brands out there that the 'yes' does not apply to? IF Dudek has knowingly taken a banned substance then yes, throw the book and anything else you want. But until they identify exactly what he took it in then its wrong to label him 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 Looking for a simpler example, do you suffer from hayfever? Hayfever sufferers often take some form of antihystamine that can be bought over the counter. What a lot of people probably dont realise is some brands include a compound that includes a 'banned' substance under FIM rules whilst other brands do not. If they have checked that its okay to take antihystamine in general and been told yes is it reasonable to know that there are a couple of brands out there that the 'yes' does not apply to? I "a lot of people" don't need to realise something is banned by the FIM,do they?We aren't members of the FIM riding in their sport.People that do ride in FIM meetings should be very careful in what they take and the FIm if they are going to test for banned substances should advise riders.No excuses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f-s-p Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 "a lot of people" don't need to realise something is banned by the FIM,do they?We aren't members of the FIM riding in their sport.People that do ride in FIM meetings should be very careful in what they take and the FIm if they are going to test for banned substances should advise riders.No excuses. Finnish Antidoping was at our final at Seinäjoki last weekend. TOP3 stayed after the meeting for a pee. Must have been 4th year in a row they were present. It's not just a FIM thing. Also, every ambulance has a "top-spec" alcometer on board, so basically if a ref or clerk of the course wants someone tested, it's no biggie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 the problem is that it IS possible to have products within things that are not readily identified and yes there can be 'innocent' ingenstion. As Alain Baxter found out - Vicks in America has different ingredients from Vicks in the UK and that was how he was caught out. They decided ignorance was not an excuse and he lost his Olympic medal (something I always felt was unfair tbh as I felt he had a legitimate case) Methylhexanamine as Ive already said is in a lot of dietary supplements. If it is listed as a banned substance it is easy to look at the ingredients and say 'yip, theres that nasty methylhexanamine, I wont take it. However what would you think if you saw geranium extract? Sounds innocent enough, I bet most would think that must be a natural product and ok. They'd be wrong as geranium extract and methylhexanamine are the same thing. I've had to learn a lot of these things and it is not as easy as you think to pick out things to avoid. A lot will depend on identifying what the methylhexanamine was in. Vicks comes in what forms, vapour rub, that stick you stick up your nose, nasal spray, cold and flu remedy etc. So what's in the stuff in it that is deemed performance enhancing? Surely you'd have to take a lot of the stuff, or sniff a lot for it to do anything? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screm Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 Sorry screm but you are wrong. Im not saying it is the case here but it IS possible he could have taken it innocently and they have to make sure that its not been a genuine mistake. Looking for a simpler example, do you suffer from hayfever? Hayfever sufferers often take some form of antihystamine that can be bought over the counter. What a lot of people probably dont realise is some brands include a compound that includes a 'banned' substance under FIM rules whilst other brands do not. If they have checked that its okay to take antihystamine in general and been told yes is it reasonable to know that there are a couple of brands out there that the 'yes' does not apply to? IF Dudek has knowingly taken a banned substance then yes, throw the book and anything else you want. But until they identify exactly what he took it in then its wrong to label him Good post, for what its worth I think Dudek probably has taken a banned substance unwittingly, but I`m afraid the bottom line is he has taken a banned substance and should be banned accordingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f-s-p Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 Vicks comes in what forms, vapour rub, that stick you stick up your nose, nasal spray, cold and flu remedy etc. So what's in the stuff in it that is deemed performance enhancing? Surely you'd have to take a lot of the stuff, or sniff a lot for it to do anything? .. just like the substance Dudek was on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 .. just like the substance Dudek was on. But it doesn't matter.If the FIM have issued a list of banned substances then it is up to riders to avoid those substances 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f-s-p Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 But it doesn't matter.If the FIM have issued a list of banned substances then it is up to riders to avoid those substances It's not about FIM, it's about WADA. World Antidoping Agency. They give the rules for medics in sport. Knit-picking, yes I am. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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