The Future Of The Elite League

[hrhbig]

 

could someone tell the tories

Cor blimey every good socialist knows that the only way to balance the books is to borrow your way out of debt, after all why solve today what you can get others sort out later.

[waiheke1]

One of the main issues in working out a way forward, is that even the fans can't seem to agree on what is important.

Some think a league of 8-10 meeting each other home and away is optimal, others want a load of meetings

some want to see the top stars, others just want riders that race exclusively in England, others don't care so long as the riders are quite evenly matched

some want races where riders are evenly matched, yet others whinge about this year's format which ensures riders of similar standard almost every heat.

many want more british riders, but then moan when something like FTR is introduced

some want to see their team win, for others a close meeting is more important

Everyone wants to see good racing, but except for tracks which are exceptionally good (Bydgosh, Hyde Rd etc.) or bad (Beaumont PArk?), does the quality of racing actually impact on the attendance?

some want the meeting to be wrapped up more quickly, but others want second halfs re-instated

people long for the days when riders just had one bike each, yet plenty more would moan about a riders whose bikes are no up to standard (anyone think Tai may not have his best bikes in the UK?)

Plenty are in favour of play offs, others are very anti them

some complain that the play offs mean less is at stake in individual matches, yet neglect that a couple of months into the season in the old league system, only about three teams still had any realistic chance of being champions.

Many decry the double point rule as "unfair", yet want a return to the old tac sub rule, which was more uinfair

some think Sky coverage is imperative, others think it is part of the problem

 

Which of the above factors actually impact on attendance?

It's impossible to tell really. But I'd suggest:

Star riders help crowds i'm sure, at least amongst the current and lapsed speedway fraternity

A winning team i'd suggest helps more than close matches (a weak side will have closer matches at home, but typically struggling teams crowds go down not up)

Crowds for the play offs are the best of the season, indicating that they

 

Personally I think the way to go is perhaps two set night (Monday/Thursday), with 8-10 teams, home and away once each, then play offs.

EL to have priority over PL and NL on these nights.

TBH, I don't see way around guests/rr as cover for injured riders, no suitable solution has been found in the last 50 years, and a squad system likely to be unaffordable (suggests guests allowed only for Heat leaders, each side to have a PL rider as "no 8" to cover 2nd strings, and a local Brit to cover reseve slot)?

minimum 3 brits per team (2 at reserve, one of whom must be under23)

either have a decent points limit, or possibly something like an IPL style draft of riders. If the schedule aligned, you'd likely retain the star names currently here, re-attract the likes of Holder/Lindgren, and the young poles/danes/sweded who want to delveop by rcing on the UKs range of track sizes/shapes.

each track also to get some type of "shared event" meeting(e.g. ELRC, best pairs, 4 team tourney, British Final, test matches)

Clubs work together for concerted social media marketing campaign.

Target unis etc with 10 quid specials and cheap drinks, all tracks to invest in decent sound system, live local acts and other entertainment

get meetings over in an hour and a half - aim is for a package something like how T20 revitalized cricket

Sky TV is a reality and needs to be used positively - if EL doesn't screen, people still have the chance of watching multiple meetings online or TV each week anyway - if you get the live product right, people will come to watch it, especially if you get pricing right fo rthese meetings.

 

The alternative is one big league with no starts, but look how many people on here moan about dilution of product, by which they mean loss of quality riders. I can only see crowds dipping further

 

A couple of other thoughts:

Clubs in pretty much all sports struggle financially, even in the EPL etc. - the nature of sports competition often drives clubs to spend more than they can afford to achieve success. I'd suggest very few promoters/owners etrc do it for the money, its for the love of the sport, the ego boost etc.

People whinge about the racing not being as good or as close as it used to be - have a look back at some old league meetings (as an example, there are a couple from 1982 at Hyde Rd on youtube), and tell me that the racing then was substantially better or closer than it is now. We have selective memories, and the atmosphere etc,. generated by larger crowds is a big factor.

Bigger crowds generate bigger crowds, and vice versa (a large crowd generates more atmosphere, enhancing the experience. one extra person going may lead to them bringing others. The reverse applies - people stop going because their mates have stopped going, the banter isn't the same anymore etc.)

The fact is that the racing and package in the GPS and the SWC is as good or better than it has ever been, it is not the sport that is fundamentally flawed, it is the EL as it is currently run.

[The White Knight]

One of the main issues in working out a way forward, is that even the fans can't seem to agree on what is important.

Some think a league of 8-10 meeting each other home and away is optimal, others want a load of meetings

some want to see the top stars, others just want riders that race exclusively in England, others don't care so long as the riders are quite evenly matched

some want races where riders are evenly matched, yet others whinge about this year's format which ensures riders of similar standard almost every heat.

many want more british riders, but then moan when something like FTR is introduced

some want to see their team win, for others a close meeting is more important

Everyone wants to see good racing, but except for tracks which are exceptionally good (Bydgosh, Hyde Rd etc.) or bad (Beaumont PArk?), does the quality of racing actually impact on the attendance?

some want the meeting to be wrapped up more quickly, but others want second halfs re-instated

people long for the days when riders just had one bike each, yet plenty more would moan about a riders whose bikes are no up to standard (anyone think Tai may not have his best bikes in the UK?)

Plenty are in favour of play offs, others are very anti them

some complain that the play offs mean less is at stake in individual matches, yet neglect that a couple of months into the season in the old league system, only about three teams still had any realistic chance of being champions.

Many decry the double point rule as "unfair", yet want a return to the old tac sub rule, which was more uinfair

The fact is that the racing and package in the GPS and the SWC is as good or better than it has ever been, it is not the sport that is fundamentally flawed, it is the EL as it is currently run.

................ and many don't want either the Double Points Rule or the Tactical Substitute Rule. Some of us would very much like to see the Result of the Meeting being decided on the Racing. THAT is what we go to see. If someone takes a hammering - tough - it happens. Fiddling/Contriving Results will always turn people off and your credibility is lost. Once that happens - Speedway will be left to the 'diehards' like me. But even I am getting very disillusioned and fed up. I no longer look forward to the Meetings as in former years.

 

Difficult to argue with that. Many moan about watering down the Elite League and yet they accept National League Reserves. I know WHY they did that but, surely that in effect waters down the Elite League too.

 

Have Prices dropped because of this? Genuine question, because I don't know.

 

If folk are expected to pay the same or more for a watered down Product - then where is Speedway headed?

Edited August 13, 2014 by The White Knight

[BWitcher]

 

 

If folk are expected to pay the same or more for a watered down Product - then where is Speedway headed?

 

Well you've been paying it for years in the PL.

[The White Knight]

 

Well you've been paying it for years in the PL.

Then perhaps the Elite League Speedway is headed for the Premier League - to answer my own question.

 

I bloody hope not though, to be serious for a moment. :o

[SCB]

If folk are expected to pay the same or more for a watered down Product - then where is Speedway headed?

A number of EL promoters wanted to drop their prices this season but the PL clubs complained that the fans would complain it was unfair the EL cost the same or less than the PL!

[The White Knight]

A number of EL promoters wanted to drop their prices this season but the PL clubs complained that the fans would complain it was unfair the EL cost the same or less than the PL!

Thanks for that SCB.

[Trees]

A number of EL promoters wanted to drop their prices this season but the PL clubs complained that the fans would complain it was unfair the EL cost the same or less than the PL!

That's telling!!!!!

[The White Knight]

That's telling!!!!!

Well - if you label yourself Elite I suppose it's inevitable. If you are the BEST then, in business terms, you have to charge more than the minnows.

 

Whilst I'm not sure I agree with the Premier League Promoters - I can at least understand their point of view. Drop Elite League Prices to Premier League levels and some may be tempted away to watch the Elite League. The stance of the Premier League Promoters makes good business sense.

 

I might not like it, but I accept it.

[Trees]

But perhaps PL promoters are over charging?

[The White Knight]

But perhaps PL promoters are over charging?

I would say that they probably are - but - then again I think that the Elite League only charge a Pound or two more, yet pay out, it seems to me large sums of money to certain Riders. That, to me, is what makes the Elite League unsustainable.Lower the Prices and you might attract one or two new Supporters but I can't see the Riders accepting a drop in Pay so, because of this, the League would be in even more trouble.

[barncooseboy]

the arguement about a single night for speedway has left out one important factor planning permission a surprising number of tracks are fettered by only being able to run on days specified by the local planning body. Variations to planning permission can kick off councils to ask for many neew expensive comprehensive unneccessary reports that create jobs for the boys.

 

the Fast TRack scheme has prompted the former wobblers and rabbits who have made it onto the list to now be demanding £50 to 60 a point for Premier league and even National league matches because that is what the EL clubs are paying with a guarantee of a minimum of a 3 point return, cuts EL costs, increases everybody elses.

 

Why is it that riders competing for clubs in 2 or 3 countries expect the British clubs to pay their air fares but not the continental clubs, its the same distance from England to Sweden as it is from Sweden to England why do the British clubs get stuffed for the air fares. It all adds to the costs for British speedway.

[waiheke1]

If fast track riders are askng for too much money from their pl and nl clubs, why dont those clubs just say no?

Re the airfares, if the polish and swedish clubs are paying much higher wages, that would explain why they expect riders to pay their own airfares?

[orion]

the arguement about a single night for speedway has left out one important factor planning permission a surprising number of tracks are fettered by only being able to run on days specified by the local planning body. Variations to planning permission can kick off councils to ask for many neew expensive comprehensive unneccessary reports that create jobs for the boys.

 

 

If that was true then I would say then one race night say Monday would easier than it is now where teams ride there normal race nights then some Mondays . Swindon asking to ride every Monday is the same as asking to ride every Thursday .All teams have being able ride home matches on Mondays before .

[Midland Red]

If that was true then I would say then one race night say Monday would easier than it is now where teams ride there normal race nights then some Mondays . Swindon asking to ride every Monday is the same as asking to ride every Thursday .All teams have being able ride home matches on Mondays before .

Any chance of a translation into English, please?

[waiheke1]

Dont think it needs translating. All teams seem to have been able to tun Mondays for sky meetings, so if we eent to a single race night, monday would seem ok for all/most tracks.

Does anyone have a definitive list of tracks that couldn't race homr meetings on s monday or thursday?

................ and many don't want either the Double Points Rule or the Tactical Substitute Rule. Some of us would very much like to see the Result of the Meeting being decided on the Racing. THAT is what we go to see. If someone takes a hammering - tough - it happens. Fiddling/Contriving Results will always turn people off and your credibility is lost. Once that happens - Speedway will be left to the 'diehards' like me. But even I am getting very disillusioned and fed up. I no longer look forward to the Meetings as in former years.

 

 

If folk are expected to pay the same or more for a watered down Product - then where is Speedway headed?

Twk - I did almost add a rider that some are opposed to both. Not sure you can argue tactical rides are csusing speedway to lose credibility though - they have been around since before my firstspeedway meeting 81), so the credibility is long gone if your argument holds true.

your comment re diehards - surely the point has already been reached where only the diehards remain?

As for your last point - dont you consistently argue that the pl is a better product? That would surely indicate that you yhink the standard of rider is not the key measure of product quality and therefore introduction of ftr doesnt necessarily mean dilution of product?

[SteveLyric2]

Racing on the occasional Mondays to suit Sky is one thing, but despite what Woffy has said, several of the top riders DO NOT like Monday meetings in the UK on a regular basis. Many prefer the day off after GP and Poland at the weekend and then Sweden on a Tuesday.

 

Wednesdays and Thursdays seem a better option, even with the Danish League alternatives.

 

As for the EL/PL admission price differential, the EL proposal to reduce admission by £2, was opposed by the PL as it would mean the PL reducing their prices by a similar amount - not competing at the same price!!! Many PL promoters stated it would 'ruin them'!! So clearly the PL clubs are also running very close to the financial wind!!

Edited August 14, 2014 by Skidder1

[Midland Red]

Dont think it needs translating.

So, what does "If that was true then I would say then one race night say Monday would easier than it is now where teams ride there normal race nights then some Mondays . Swindon asking to ride every Monday is the same as asking to ride every Thursday .All teams have being able ride home matches on Mondays before" mean???

[orion]

Speedway used to be packed when you had the stupid and unfair tac sub rule ...So to say that things like double points turns people off don't hold much water

Edited August 14, 2014 by orion

[The White Knight]

If that was true then I would say then one race night say Monday would easier than it is now where teams ride there normal race nights then some Mondays . Swindon asking to ride every Monday is the same as asking to ride every Thursday .All teams have being able ride home matches on Mondays before .

EH!!!!!

Dont think it needs translating. All teams seem to have been able to tun Mondays for sky meetings, so if we eent to a single race night, monday would seem ok for all/most tracks.

Does anyone have a definitive list of tracks that couldn't race homr meetings on s monday or thursday?

Twk - I did almost add a rider that some are opposed to both. Not sure you can argue tactical rides are csusing speedway to lose credibility though - they have been around since before my firstspeedway meeting 81), so the credibility is long gone if your argument holds true.

your comment re diehards - surely the point has already been reached where only the diehards remain?

As for your last point - dont you consistently argue that the pl is a better product? That would surely indicate that you yhink the standard of rider is not the key measure of product quality and therefore introduction of ftr doesnt necessarily mean dilution of product?

Very true - and I didn't like them then either.

Speedway used to be packed when you had the stupid and unfair tac sub rule ...So to say that things like double points turns people off don't much water

orion - I am doing my very best to understand your Posts.

 

Do you mean: "doesn't hold much water.

 

Only asking - but that is two in a row I have struggled with. In fact I am still not sure about the first one.