Trees Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 the thing that would hold back promotion/relegation is the fact certain promoters in prem DONT wanna move up!Exactly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R87 Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 I'd be all in favour of a cup competition being added as long as it didn't start until mid -season. Then teams who have little chance in the league have something to go for. It would reduce the number of meaningless matches. Even the British League Cup of 2003. A good idea and I enjoyed those meetings, but too many clubs didn't take it seriously and, it was given the boot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 (edited) Promoters don't want to move up when their team is promoted is an old excuse.  They don't feel they can afford the stars on their gates. But the stars have all but gone.  The EL is too high as regards its operating costs. Despite the lack of stars, crowds have also dipped in recent years, and so the clubs haven't noticed much of a break even. Though some love the Play-Offs, it has allowed seasons to be directed towards making the final two. I feel all that precedes the Play-Off semis is taken as a take-or-leave proposition by fans.  Teams visiting twice a season also reduces the need to attend both matches, especially when money's tight.  If the proposed new set-up were were tailored to Premier League standards, both divisions, then what would the problem be? If an EL team is losing £100,000 a year, what objection would it have of the whole league agreeing to reduce its high earners, to help not just save the club but the sport as well.  Without the so-called stars, both divisions could be evened out so neither league is that different. Edited August 9, 2014 by moxey63 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 I don't think its the EL promoters you have to convince!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 (edited) I don't think its the EL promoters you have to convince!! Â Â Perhaps the EL promoters who cry about losing money every time they open their gates, perhaps they should use a bit of common logic and think about stepping down, losing their few remaining star names and secure a rosier future for them and the whole sport. Â We had the early year problems with GP riders, tracks that had a GP star couldn't race this date or that. Now they, the little princesses, want to hold Britain to ransom, telling track bosses when they should operate. Â Britain should make a fresh start, a brave one I know, and plan a sport that can rely on boys who actually want to be here. Â It would certainly begin to create a product that would only grow. Â Britain could be great again. Edited August 9, 2014 by moxey63 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 Â Â Perhaps the EL promoters who cry about losing money every time they open their gates, perhaps they should use a bit of common logic and think about stepping down, losing their few remaining star names and secure a rosier future for them and the whole sport. Â Â ? just as many clubs in the PL cry about losing money . That is the bit don't understand let's all go Pl it's hardly a winning product . A rosier future is to try bring more fans into the sport not drive them away 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Skid Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 Kick the top Riders out, one League, and pray it works, cos that's about all there is left to try, if it doesn't then can the last one out turn the lights off!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 Kick the top Riders out, one League, and pray it works, cos that's about all there is left to try, if it doesn't then can the last one out turn the lights off!!! Pretty of other things to try . As for one big league it's been tried and never worked and never will . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 The question was "The future of the Elite League"? The answer is, it has no future, save your money and watch the Swedish League on TV, Zorro and Harris both riding at reserve, that's what you call an Elite League. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 The question was "The future of the Elite League"? The answer is, it has no future, save your money and watch the Swedish League on TV, Zorro and Harris both riding at reserve, that's what you call an Elite League.   That's another thing Elite League speedway has to contend with... people can watch other racing for free on the internet or satellite. In the old days we wouldn't have noticed how weak, how stale our league was, cos we had no other product to compare it with  From what I've witnessed these past few years, Premier League is much better entertainment than EL. We should try to maintain British speedway using the PL pay scale.  When a rider chooses to race in three different countries within the space of 48 hours, surely it's not these cherubs we should be asking to show the hunger and loyalty to drag British speedway from the knacker's yard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Science Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 Whilst I can put my hand up and say I have had little involvement in speedway this year and have not attended any meetings I have observed with interest the current crisis if you will with the Elite league in its present state. I hope you don't mind me sharing my views.  So what is wrong with the Elite league? Well its hard where to start really. I don't wish to jump on the perennial doom and gloom bandwagon but we have to admit this year the product has not been good and we could be seeing the beginning of the end. Birmingham have closed down and Eastbourne look set to go at the end of this year (Mr Dugard has stated that the regular crowd is only 700).  The main thing we have to ask ourselves now is are we getting value for our money - the simple answer is a big fat NO!. Crowds are going down because it is simply too expensive for a family now to attend on a regular basis. Wages have not increased for ages and the cost of living continues to rise yet we are asking folk to part with their hard earned cash to pay upto £18 each week per person (excluding kids of cause). Now lets face it people don't mind paying this is they are getting value for their money (football is well attended at roughly the same price or more) but the Elite League is a watered down product compared to what it used to be. People want to see the best riders in the world if they are paying top dollar - thats why Cardiff is so well attended but we can probably count on one hand the amount of GP riders that race here and maybe on two hands the number of truly world class riders. When I first started going to speedway back in 1993 each team had 3 world class heat leaders and the second strings were knocking on the door. Fast forward to 2014 Each team probably has a 1 top rider or maybe 2 if your lucky, the rest is made up of premier league regulars.  Doubling up between the leagues seemed a good when the idea was first conceived, you would have the best riders in the premier league slot into the reserve spots in the Elite. It was like a natural progression. What has happened now is that this system has got out of control. The Elite league is full of riders that also race in the premier league. Supporters can no longer associate a rider with one team. You can watch an Elite league match at Belle Vue on a Monday and then go and watch premier league at Somerset on Friday. chances are you will see 60% of the same riders you say on Monday. A case of the same riders wearing different race jackets. This means that in effect the Elite League is just a glorified Premier league with a few top riders thrown in. As for the fast track system for British youngsters - This may have seemed a good idea but has become a total farce. It has weakened the Elite league and was almost certainly brought in as a cost cutting measure. Most of the youngsters are struggling and after a few meetings are dropped. The club then has to take on the next rider in line and so on.  Tai Woffinden has stated that the league has to change if he is to ride here next year. I have always said that if the league is to move forward and attract the best riders in the world again we have to have a set race night. Promoters are stuck in the past if they think they can still expect to run on any night they want and the riders have to revolve around that. If the BSPA insist on continuing the status quo maybe the only way forward is to combine the 2 leagues again? At least the fans would get the variety of seeing a different team each week and each team would have different riders to the other as there would be no need for doubling up.  Whatever happens the Elite league needs to change!  Kelvin Lapworth I could understand criticism of the BSPA if everyone was singing from the same hymn sheet.This topic is less than 2 pages long and already we have had,Get the best riders back,ditch the best riders,go to a set race night,use 2 race nights,Go for 1 big league,go for 2 leagues,have promotion and relegation,promotion and relegation wont work,keep the draft,ditch the draft,bring back the KO cup,don't bring back the KO cup,stop doubling up,get rid of the tactical ride etc.You ask 10 people what they want they come up with 10 different answers ! Unless we can all agree on a way forward doesn't seem much point lambasting the BSPA for not implementing the personal wishes of 20 separate posters. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 I could understand criticism of the BSPA if everyone was singing from the same hymn sheet.This topic is less than 2 pages long and already we have had,Get the best riders back,ditch the best riders,go to a set race night,use 2 race nights,Go for 1 big league,go for 2 leagues,have promotion and relegation,promotion and relegation wont work,keep the draft,ditch the draft,bring back the KO cup,don't bring back the KO cup,stop doubling up,get rid of the tactical ride etc.You ask 10 people what they want they come up with 10 different answers ! Unless we can all agree on a way forward doesn't seem much point lambasting the BSPA for not implementing the personal wishes of 20 separate posters. What I seen on this topic and most that people can not accept that Speedway has problems in General rather than in one league . Intill people get there head round that speedway it's not working at any level or league then I doubt it will ever move forward . 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 the thing that would hold back promotion/relegation is the fact certain promoters in prem DONT wanna move up! And why would they? The Elite League is far too expensive to compete in. At least Promoters in the Premier League recognise their limits. As I have said earlier some Premier League Teams are struggling now - why the hell would they want to move up to a League that could bankrupt them. Â I know that some Elite League Supporters don't/won't accept this fact, nevertheless, it is true. Â The question was "The future of the Elite League"? The answer is, it has no future, save your money and watch the Swedish League on TV, Zorro and Harris both riding at reserve, that's what you call an Elite League. Sadly, I believe that if something is not done soon, you may well be right. :sad: Â What I seen on this topic and most that people can not accept that Speedway has problems in General rather than in one league . Intill people get there head round that speedway it's not working at any level or league then I doubt it will ever move forward . And as I have said many times orion - you are right - Speedway has problems at all levels. The trouble is that by far the BIGGEST problems are in the Elite League. This is something you seem to find difficult to accept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 And why would they? The Elite League is far too expensive to compete in. At least Promoters in the Premier League recognise their limits. As I have said earlier some Premier League Teams are struggling now - why the hell would they want to move up to a League that could bankrupt them. Â I know that some Elite League Supporters don't/won't accept this fact, nevertheless, it is true. Â Sadly, I believe that if something is not done soon, you may well be right. :sad: Â And as I have said many times orion - you are right - Speedway has problems at all levels. The trouble is that by far the BIGGEST problems are in the Elite League. This is something you seem to find difficult to accept. I answer that last week when you say the same thing ...Yet again another myth that only el teams not knowing there limits for everyone I can give you a Pl that don't as well . No doubt Newport knew there limits when they were in the pl no doubt Boro knew there limits as they can't paid there riders at the moment . I accept something when you come with some facts that back up what you say but like last week I doubt you can . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 I answer that last week when you say the same thing ...Yet again another myth that only el teams not knowing there limits for everyone I can give you a Pl that don't as well . No doubt Newport knew there limits when they were in the pl no doubt Boro knew there limits as they can't paid there riders at the moment . I accept something when you come with some facts that back up what you say but like last week I doubt you can . I don't have to come up with anything - it is all there for you to see if you just open your eyes. Â "There are none so blind as those who will not see" Â John Heywood - 1546 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 (edited) I don't have to come up with anything - it is all there for you to see if you just open your eyes. Â Â That's what I expected you can't come up with anything ...As I said don't say things unless you can back it with some facts . Edited August 9, 2014 by orion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowboy cookie returns? Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 For as long as I have been a Speedway supporter (the best part of 30 years) the BSPA or at least the promoters of the top league have always been more interested in in fighting & self interest. The most professional league this country has had in that time was the old National League of the late 1980's which was broken up to try & save top flight speedway in 1991. I think I missed around 10 meetings in 22 years at Ipswich I think I have been to about 6 in the last 6 seasons & before anyone asks it has nothing to do with the drop down my interest started to fade as more & more daft rules came in the last straw was the change mid season to change the playoffs from the top 6 to the top 4. Until the powers that be sort themselves out the future of the top flight in the short term & speedway as a whole in the mid term is in danger! Just a question not really on topic but does however sum up this country why do we not hold a round of have anyone in the European Championships? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 That's what I expected you can't come up with anything ...As I said don't say things unless you can back it with some facts . It is a waste of time discussing things with you orion. Â Birmingham is only the start - believe you me. :sad: Â Anyway - time will tell. Â We shall see............................................. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeoBrummie Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 It is a waste of time discussing things with you orion. Â Birmingham is only the start - believe you me. :sad: Â Anyway - time will tell. Â We shall see............................................. Birmingham were doomed the day Alan Phillips rejected Tony Mole's offer of buying the club back and instead decided to run the club on his own assisted by his mini me son! - "Amateurs" - to quote Phil Morris! and bloody ell was he right! Â Birmingham's demise is not typical of the EL as a whole, but I do admit The EL in it's current format is on borrowed time and needs radical changes in order to survive. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted August 10, 2014 Report Share Posted August 10, 2014 (edited) It is a waste of time discussing things with you orion. Â Birmingham is only the start - believe you me. :sad: Â Anyway - time will tell. Â We shall see............................................. Why because I don't agree with what you say ? or when I asked you to back up what you say with some examples you can't up come with any bar Birmingham who of course had lost a packet in the Pl the last time they were in that league .No matter what league brum were in Phillips would have busted them . Â Just like any club that go's under like Newport Pl or Birmingham El it tends to be due to who is running the club not what league they are in . Yet again at the start of the year were hearing how great it was that Boro had left the El and there problems were over because they were in the Pl but sure enough before long there have been statements begging for fans to come and watch as they are way under there break even figure and rumors that riders have been paid all season long . Â Both leagues have the same big problem not enough fans to make it pay . Edited August 10, 2014 by orion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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