The Future Of The Elite League

[The White Knight]

I would like to clear up one thing - the Result of a Speedway Meeting is matterless to me as long as I see some good Racing and the end Result is fairly achieved. Sadly these days that is not always the case. This is MY view only and it is the way I feel. I feel the same about the 'Play Offs' as well.

 

I will still, as I say, come on this Forum. I shall still follow Newcastle through their excellent 'Live Chat' zone.

 

Finally I will relive my Speedway through both 'BackTrack' and 'Classic Speedway' Magazines. They take me back to a time I really loved my chosen Sport (even though I was never comfortable with the Tactical Substitute Regulation).

 

"The Past is a foreign Country - they do things differently there" - L.P. Hartley

 

................. and I could add to my above quote by L.P. Hartley 'and better'.

[CUFC_Brummie]

I think it's human nature to be reminiscent about the "old days", speedway isn't unique to this, it's the same with football, music, pubs, cars, most things in everyday life, generally the older you are the more fondly you look back on bygone eras. Heck, I'm only 24 and have been going to football for 19 years but I find myself despising most things about modern football, but professional sport has still only been around as long as the lifetime of a human really, so it's still a fairly new phenomenon, in 100 years time I think it will just be accepted that everyone always thinks that the experiences from their youth (however you class it) was better than the present. With the way technology is continuing to evolve at even greater speeds than previously before, then that time frame is going to keep coming down as well and people will start looking back at the "good old days" as 5 years ago rather than 50 because everything will just keep changing so much.

 

The problem with speedway in that respect is that it has stood still with the view of it's largely older fanbase. Football in particular but also rugby, cricket, Formula 1, the big 4 American sports, have all modernised to bring their sports into the 20th/21st century (as applicable) since the early 90's, not just in the game itself but in the facilities they are played in and the "at home" experience, in the process annoying a lot of what at the time was their core fanbase. The thing is because of how successfully they have marketed it, for every fan they've lost, they've gained two, which is why they are thriving now as the "businesses" they are today. Whereas for every fan gained for speedway (like myself, 2006), they've probably lost 10, which with an aging fanbase means it's hard to see a positive future.

 

But, and I saw this analogy elsewhere which I quite liked, British people would pay £40 to see an envelope opened if it was given enough hype. We moan and moan about prices but we still have the 2nd best supported football league in the world (only held back because we insist on all-seaters unlike the Germans), sold more tickets for the Olympics than ever before, get 100,000 people at Silverstone for F1 every year etc etc. Cardiff gets such a big crowd not because of the racing but because the stature of the event is promoted, it's made to sound like a big deal (which in speedway terms it is), so people go, and it's that factor that you need to somehow incorproate into league racing before you even start thinking about tinkering with rules and riders.

 

There are many things that need to be done to make speedway, not just the EL, in this country thrive again, and it will mean pissing off a lot of the current fanbase, but it's a necessity for the sport as a whole to move forward for the next 5, 10, 50 years. However, I'm absolutely certain that there is no-one currently involved in the sport in this country who is capable of making those decisions.

[moxey63]

The worry to me... no, it isn't really... is just who's coming through as youngsters to support the sport?

 

I think time shows that most fans were probably introduced to it by an elder. As a lot of us oldies are walking away from it, it leaves less scope to encourage younger fans to attend. Hence this leaves lower and lower crowds.

 

Bit simplistic, I know, but, as Team GB have found, who is there to replace the legends, young replacing the old?

 

Who is coming along to eventually replace retiring Moxey63, The White Knight and OldAce; On track, it's like who's come in Team GB's to fill the shoes of the likes of PC, Simmo, Tautum, Wigg?

[billybikespeedway]

Who is coming along to eventually replace retiring Moxey63, The White Knight and OldAce; On track, it's like who's come in Team GB's to fill the shoes of the likes of PC, Simmo, Tautum, Wigg?

 

These were replaced by Loram louis Screen Andy Smith and the late Lee richardson ,so who is to replace them

[The White Knight]

Who is coming along to eventually replace retiring Moxey63, The White Knight and OldAce; On track, it's like who's come in Team GB's to fill the shoes of the likes of PC, Simmo, Tautum, Wigg?

 

These were replaced by Loram louis Screen Andy Smith and the late Lee richardson ,so who is to replace them

I don't think so.

 

Those Riders were hardly of the same calibre as those mentioned by moxey63. They were good Riders yes - but crucially - certainly not 'Greats' to be compared with the Riders Moxey63 mentioned.

[SteveLyric2]

What a silly comment. TWK knows his speedway and is entitled to post as often as he likes about the EL as it's part of the sport he loves.

What does it matter if he prefers PL racing?

His view is as valid as anyone who loves the sport.

Disagree with him by all means but he has as much right to post here as you.

Fair enough. Silly or not silly (it was said with a wink!!), I question the relevance of some people's opinions on the future Elite League (which is what this thread is about) when they don't attend. Its all very well to say someone 'knows their speedway' - maybe so but if that knowledge is only based on the so-called 'good old days', then I'm not sure what it has to do with the future of the EL , as bad as it is now in many people's eyes.

 

I rarely post on any of the PL or NL threads because I rarely attend a PL or NL track (except very occasionally Somerset), so I don't see that my opinion has any constructive relevance on any PL/NL topics. That's my choice I know, despite having attended Poole meetings when they were in the old National League, when crowds were much much greater than the EL is now.

 

Anyway each to their own - but better still if its constructive comment rather than the same old same old!!

Edited August 18, 2014 by Skidder1

[Fromafar]

As a speedway fan can you not put who wins or loses , or how they get there , to one side and just enjoy the racing ? My team lost by ten points today , but i had a pint in the bar afterwards quite happy my team tried their best and just lost to a better team on the day . The racing was terrific .

There;s a danger we get too wrapped up in the politics of the sport and forget why we go in the first place

 

You have a good point regarding your last line comment,IMO geniune locals will probably treat the meeting as part of their entertainment for the evening then socialise in the pub afterwords and get the politics out of their systems, but for fans like myself who have a long round trip to watch my team it sometimes makes it a long journey home as drinking and driving are not recommended.Its an expensive night out if your not enjoying it for various reasons and I can see why fans just give up on the sport with its stupid rules and regs.It just cannot be taking seriously as a Professional sport.

[moxey63]

Who is coming along to eventually replace retiring Moxey63, The White Knight and OldAce; On track, it's like who's come in Team GB's to fill the shoes of the likes of PC, Simmo, Tautum, Wigg?

 

These were replaced by Loram louis Screen Andy Smith and the late Lee richardson ,so who is to replace them

 

England (or is it GB?) didn't win the World Cup with Smith, Richardson, Screen or Loram. Apart from National title success from these, it was only Loram that really stepped into the star bracket, courtesy of his GP win...

Edited August 18, 2014 by moxey63

[ColinMills]

i dont see anyone outside tai myself....nobody what so ever.us oldies get a rum deal when we hark on back to the golden era, but quite frankly we were spoilt by a conveyer belt of british (english) riders

[cowboy cookie returns?]

Fair enough. Silly or not silly (it was said with a wink!!), I question the relevance of some people's opinions on the future Elite League (which is what this thread is about) when they don't attend. Its all very well to say someone 'knows their speedway' - maybe so but if that knowledge is only based on the so-called 'good old days', then I'm not sure what it has to do with the future of the EL , as bad as it is now in many people's eyes.

 

I rarely post on any of the PL or NL threads because I rarely attend a PL or NL track (except very occasionally Somerset), so I don't see that my opinion has any constructive relevance on any PL/NL topics. That's my choice I know, despite having attended Poole meetings when they were in the old National League, when crowds were much much greater than the EL is now.

 

Anyway each to their own - but better still if its constructive comment rather than the same old same old!!

The future of the EL & the PL go hand in hand & so in turn does the future of league racing in the UK. Yes the EL is broken but so is the sport as a whole in this country!!!

[Paulco]

The future of the EL seems to be comedy track prep coupled with eccentric refereeing

[greyhoundp]

Lets look at tonights EL meetings; 1st Wolves couldnt field a full strength Team because PP decided for whatever reason (Despite riding over the weekend) he could not be arsed to ride for them tonight so we had the RR rule so the spectators lose out. 2nd Belle Vue; billed as a double header and a 7-00pm start, The first meeting started very late and was abandoned after 12 completed races due to very heavy rain, the 2nd meeting never took place, so again the spectators are short changed and lose out, due to an avoidable late start and unavoidable weather. 3rd meeting Coventry apparently we had a ref who was a little shall we say different in that he had his own ideas on interpretation of the rules the outcome, we had riders needlesly excluded, again the spectators lose out..

 

In all three meetings the spectators lost out, and thats part of the reason Speedway especially the EL is dying on its feet.

[ColinMills]

Lets look at tonights EL meetings; 1st Wolves couldnt field a full strength Team because PP decided for whatever reason (Despite riding over the weekend) he could not be arsed to ride for them tonight so we had the RR rule so the spectators lose out. 2nd Belle Vue; billed as a double header and a 7-00pm start, The first meeting started very late and was abandoned after 12 completed races due to very heavy rain, the 2nd meeting never took place, so again the spectators are short changed and lose out, due to an avoidable late start and unavoidable weather. 3rd meeting Coventry apparently we had a ref who was a little shall we say different in that he had his own ideas on interpretation of the rules the outcome, we had riders needlesly excluded, again the spectators lose out..

 

In all three meetings the spectators lost out, and thats part of the reason Speedway especially the EL is dying on its feet.

think lakeside had 2 guests and r/r as well...standard!

[spin king]

The big problem for me is the doubling up of riders which has gotten way out of hand.

 

Right I want you all to visualize that you have introduced a friend to speedway called Jim. Jim has come away from the meeting and has really enjoyed the niht and decides that he wants to return the following week. He comes he buys his programme and starts to look at the team for the meeting and he has a perplexed look upon his face and starts asking the following questions.

 

Jim; Whats happened to that fella that I thought was great last week Bobby Jawa, is he injured or sick or something.

 

You; No he riding for his other team in another league.

 

Jim; His other team.

 

You; He is allowed ride in two different leagues in this country and as the other club signed him first they have first choice over his services. But he will back riding for us next week as we don't have any clash of fixtures.

 

Jim; So it does not happen very often then.

 

You; Nah about 5 or 6 times over the season.

 

Jim; And whats happened to Bengt Rearguard, don't tell me his riding for his other team.

 

You; No.

 

Jim; So he is injured.

 

You; Nah he riding for his Swedish club they have first call over him as he is Swedish.

 

Jim; Does that happen often.

 

You; No only a couple of times.

 

Jim; Where is Brain Weslake is riding for another club.

 

You; No he is injured.

 

Jim; So he would have been riding tonight if he was not injured.

 

You; Not really as he rides for the same team as Bobby Jawa, so he would have been riding for them anyway. But we will be okay next week as they will all be free to ride for us.

 

 

So okay its bit over exaggerated, but you can go to any speedway meeting any night of the week and you can get any one of those examples.

 

This season Newcastle tried to sign Robert Lambert, that would have meant that they would have had three doubling up riders from Kings Lynn meaning that any fixture clashes with Kings Lynn would have resulted in having to replace nearly half of their team for that fixture, is this what you fan really wants I don't think so.

 

There is without shadow of doubt a shortage of riders in this country and a shortage of rider from overseas wanting to ride over here, this is why we have the problem of not enough riders to go around.

 

The way around this is simple and easy for me make Monday night exclusively Elite League night, all Elite League fixtures to run on Monday night.

 

If that means only 5 or 6 teams in an Elite League then so be it, its a small price to pay for the debacle that is going on now, would reduce the the fixture clashes and give riders more meetings who ride for more than one club.

 

Fans want to see riders who ride for their club on a consist basis and not see them disappear riding for other teams in other league.

. ,

[greyhoundp]

think lakeside had 2 guests and r/r as well...standard!

 

Yes you are correct,but also so far as i am aware there was something new about Morley not riding for Lakeside but riding for Kent (another twist of the rules ?) someone suggested its because Morley isnt a Lakeside asset.

 

Well can i put that arguement to bed. I think on 2 occasions maybe more, Max Clegg & Tom Perry both Cradley assets have had to miss Cradley meetings because they have been riding for EL Teams. Then on September 1st we have The Under 19,s a National Championship being cancelled due to a clash with EL meetings.

 

So may i ask how was ben Morley allowed to ride for Kent Kings and NOT Lakeside today ?. It doesnt bother me but a precedent seems to have been set now NL over EL Draft ?? over to the BSPA make the rules up as you go along committee.

Edited August 18, 2014 by greyhoundp

[ColinMills]

one thing is very very clear. everybody on here who love speedway, or at one point loved speedway, are now totally cheesed off by the goings on this year......is anybody in authority ever going to acknowledge the problems THEY have created? they are clearly running out of time now

[stratton]

I stood at Brough Park tonight and thought to myself - why am I doing this. I don't like the Rules/Regulations ie: Double Points, Play Offs etc - yes, even down to the Yellow Helmet Cover that I cannot distinguish from the White Helmet Cover under lights.

 

I thought I'm freezing cold, wet and I am really not enjoying this at all.

 

Well - tonight I made a decision. I said earlier that I would pick and choose when I went to Speedway next Season. I have revised my decision - I am finished. My decision had nothing to do with me being cold and wet - I could take that. It was a decent Meeting too. There were NO Tactical Rides etc. I just realised that I could no longer support a Sport that has so totally lost it's credibility and is, if it continues as it is, heading for extinction. I really don't want to watch that.

 

From now on - it is the Armchair for me.....................................................

 

Another 'Oldie' gone - that should please a few on here anyway.

I hope WK you have a change of heart,otherwise it would be a crying shame we can all tell you are passionate about your speedway.And like myself frustration has set in as we all know how better the sport could be but i am afraid it will not happen in our lifetime.Saying that i am not far behind you on your thoughts i go every week still but i am going on sufferance and habit more than anything else.I am not really enjoying it i do get the odd spark that rekindles my enthusiasm ( ie like Greaves at Swindon)but overall it is not the same as in the past.After the fiasco of last night i am not far off of doing the same as yourself have i the guts to make that stance? i don't know we shall see.

The White Knight and OldAce are perfect examples of my pattern - I became disillusioned with speedway about eight years ago, so much so that I decided to stop attending.

 

Before that I had routinely gone every week, not really looking forward to it, more I suppose going only because I felt I had to... there was a group of us and if I didn't go, no one went. The pressure was on me.

 

I remember the start of one season, which may have been 2003, the first match was like your gran coming at Christmas... and you had to give her that stomach-wrenching kiss! I didn't want to do it.

 

It wasn't important that Belle Vue were always botttom. What was, was I saw decent speedway and felt like the sport was worth my attending. Eventually, I felt it wasn't.

 

Eight years on, I have SKY but rarely watch speedway. I record all the meetings on disc, but never watch them. Sometimes the match is on in the background, but I don't know what's happening, occasionally taking notice.

 

The funny thing is, I still come on here, still try to compile speedway stat books and the like, still collect old speedway stuff... in fact, I always check ebay for items I may bid on. So it's a strange one.

Moxey yourself, WK,Oldace,Mr Mills we are so similar in a way,we all watched our speedway in a different era and still go or keep regular tabs on what is happening in the sport.It shows you do not have to go every week to know your stuff and to have a worthwhile opinion on the woes of the sport.Like yourself i have a decent memorabilia collection have built it up over a number of years and that interests me more than the present day.When i see the likes of Ward or Puk ride i still get the excitement element but in our day we had that every week.With the likes of Briggs,Mauger,Olsen,Moore,Collins,Lee,Wilson,Boocock x2 Louis,Simmons,Betts, Jansson x2)Michanek,Jessup,Crump,Sjosten,Autrey visiting our tracks. Edited August 19, 2014 by sidney

[moxey63]

Sidney,

 

I like your post.

 

Perhaps the thing was, witht he past, was you actually believed your guys were doing it for you, rightly or wrongly, and I remember the nerves when (as a BV fan) PC lined up against Ole Olsen in a Belle Vue v Coventry clash. I remember it even now... it was like the rest of your week relied on it.

 

I believe the one man-one team element has robbed the sport of commitment from riders and fans alike.

 

I am just compiling a yearbook for 1984 (sad, I know), and just going through the mags week by week, I get the old feelings. for example, I recall a story in which Belle Vue were about to lose Larry Ross to Exeter. I was sick, that he'd even think about leaving Belle Vue. It disturbed me... and I was in my 20s back then, so not a child.

 

Time does alter your feelings, but I don't feel daft - even 30 years later - that I felt like this. Those feelings, for speedway anyway, left me as time progressed. As a 52 year-old, I still have them.. but now for Man City. I don't collect Man City stuff though, never look on ebay etc for it, but I do for any speedway stuff.

 

I still love the speedway, but when did I stop idolising modern day speedway?

 

Sorry to go on about football, but I was thinking just last night... that City had just visited Newcastle, and that will be their one visit in the league. Has the two and three time a year visit in speedway also robbed us of something?

 

I think speedway's problems are several contributing factors.

 

I know it'll never be the same as it was, but surely there is something wrong... with me, even... when you prefer one period of speedway to the current one. It is like two different sports.

 

I'm going on, I know, so I'll shut up.

Edited August 19, 2014 by moxey63

[Bruiser McHuge]

i don't believe league speedway is struggling because of the golden double rule or because of guests replacing a top rider..that has been going on for years....if a number 1 is missing then there is no better alternative than having a guest....it never stopped fans coming before...it doesnt stop them now,,it's a necessary evil..

 

the thing stopping fans coming is that there are not enough teams...teams are cobbled together on a yearly basis with virtually no connection to the local fans...fans know they are basically hired hands for a few months and will more than likely be a hired hand for somebody else the following season....who know what clubs actually own which rider these days.

There are not enough meetings....when i started going it was a meeting every week at the same time..usually with the same 7 riders against a different team every week...there were away supporters there in numbers..there was an atmosphere...these days there are too long a gap between meetings...when a meeting comes around its against the same old teams , who are usually turning up with half their team missing anyway...where is the encouragement for anybody to follow that...

part of the attraction in the old days was that you only got to see certain teams once a season, twice if you were lucky so you got to see a certain world star only on that occasion...there was anticipation in seeing riders so rarely in the flesh...

 

if you look back, often the racing was no better than today...the stadiums were a bit run down ...but there was variety...regular meetings and a crowd to add to the atmosphere,..there were world stars and a regular 1 to 7 where more riders actually hung around to complete a few seasons with the club..it felt like your club, your riders....none of that exists today

 

with the advent of multi channel TV, internet, computer games etc there is just so much more to stop people attending these days and the old days will never return , but speedway doesnt help itself thats for sure..

 

finally...the old tac sub rule was far superior to the golden double !!!....in fact it was a highlight of the meeting for me to watch it happen....although i cannot believe anybody has stopped going these days purely because of the golden double...the problems are much deeper than that..

[moxey63]

i don't believe league speedway is struggling because of the golden double rule or because of guests replacing a top rider..that has been going on for years....if a number 1 is missing then there is no better alternative than having a guest....it never stopped fans coming before...it doesnt stop them now,,it's a necessary evil..

 

the thing stopping fans coming is that there are not enough teams...teams are cobbled together on a yearly basis with virtually no connection to the local fans...fans know they are basically hired hands for a few months and will more than likely be a hired hand for somebody else the following season....who know what clubs actually own which rider these days.

There are not enough meetings....when i started going it was a meeting every week at the same time..usually with the same 7 riders against a different team every week...there were away supporters there in numbers..there was an atmosphere...these days there are too long a gap between meetings...when a meeting comes around its against the same old teams , who are usually turning up with half their team missing anyway...where is the encouragement for anybody to follow that...

part of the attraction in the old days was that you only got to see certain teams once a season, twice if you were lucky so you got to see a certain world star only on that occasion...there was anticipation in seeing riders so rarely in the flesh...

 

if you look back, often the racing was no better than today...the stadiums were a bit run down ...but there was variety...regular meetings and a crowd to add to the atmosphere,..there were world stars and a regular 1 to 7 where more riders actually hung around to complete a few seasons with the club..it felt like your club, your riders....none of that exists today

 

with the advent of multi channel TV, internet, computer games etc there is just so much more to stop people attending these days and the old days will never return , but speedway doesnt help itself thats for sure..

 

finally...the old tac sub rule was far superior to the golden double !!!....in fact it was a highlight of the meeting for me to watch it happen....although i cannot believe anybody has stopped going these days purely because of the golden double...the problems are much deeper than that..

 

 

Your post, my friend, is spot on.