The Future Of The Elite League

[fatface]

Yet again one of the facts was about Emil when he was brought in at Cov the crowds went up ...not only is it fact you have agreed with it and have said yourself "Of course Emil brought crowds in ...so not sure want you want ? Do Poole put on about 400 people when they are town ? seeing I go and you don't I would yet again that's a fact .

 

As for Andersen you said we will be able to retain the likes of him to the league ..so explain to us how in a north and south league running 7 days a week with lower pay how he or his like would or want to be retained ?

Bizarre. Utterly bizarre. I am making the point very clearly that GP riders are not offering value. Yet you insist on trotting out Emil Sayfutdinov as an example to prove I am wrong. You probably could not choose a worse example to support your argument if you tried. In my above post I explained that the initial interest in his arrival was due to the sheer novelty of his presence. I used the word novelty three times. Did you miss it? Novelty. There it is again.

 

Why do you think 40,000 people pay a decent chunk to go to the British GP every year? Yes, its the world's best riders, yes its the best stadium you will see speedway in. But its special because its only once a year. It's a novelty (there's that word again for you). Do you think if the British GP took place every week in Cardiff 40,000 would rock up every week? I'm beginning to wonder if you do believe that would be the case.

 

Coventry speculated and didn't accumulate when it came to Emil Sayfutdinov. It was a gamble that didn't work. Whilst it sparked extra interest at first. It quickly ebbed away. The novelty went (that's no5 for you). He missed loads of matches and it simply didn't work out. If it was boom time when he was around, isn't it strange that Coventry nor any other British club has ever forked out to bring him back? Isn't that proof enough that even the biggest stars in the sport cannot deliver value for money to our league speedway? It's bleeding obvious in the case of Emil Sayfutdinov.

 

As for Hans Andersen, who said 7 days a week? Who said lower pay? You're simply arguing with no-one there on points that haven't been made. Without GP riders we would have far less guests/rider replacement. Clubs would be able to structure a sensible fixture list without fear of absentees. Fans could also say - with confidence - which riders from which teams will be racing at their track when. On costs. my fair guess is that Andersen, Nicholls etc would save money on tuners as they wouldn't have to keep up with GP riders. As for what they will get paid, that's up to them to sort out with any promoter that wants them.

 

I note you still are unable to provide your blueprint for the future? I think it's fair to assume you simply don't have the gumption to come up with one.

 

However, I gave you a couple of easy yes/no questions to answer regarding crowds being halved without GP riders. I thought the simplicity of those would be within your range. Or are you conveniently ignoring them because they expose what complete drivel you are talking?

 

I wonder if spelling is more your thing? Then again, probably not. I assume you meant to name yourself ONION on here instead? You're certainly very good at getting yourself in a pickle.

 

Anyway, for those that are capable of reading and understanding English, here's my take on Poole. As I have said, they are the best supported and most successful club of recent times. There's a few reasons for that. Partly, Poole has become one of England's most wealthiest areas over the last couple of decades. There are certainly people around Poole who have more disposable income than most. And when it comes to watching live sport, Poole Speedway are the only show in town. So they get a decent crowd through the gate and one with a bit of cash on the hip to spend on beer and grub. Aligned with an excellent promoter in Matt Ford - one who has on occasions also bent the rules to breaking point - they have made the most of a promising environment to operate a successful and winning speedway club. Of course there are other clubs in this type of situation and don't make the most of it. But for the vast majority of speedway clubs in the UK, they do not operate in such a favourable environment. If Matt Ford were to walk out on Poole and take over at say Belle Vue, Redcar or Edinburgh would he be able to make them as big a success as Poole? He might make a slight improvement, but as successful? Not a chance. That's why when people say 'Why can't more clubs be like Poole?' they are simply not being realistic. It's why any future model for the sport cannot be modelled on what Poole can do. Frankly, it's way beyond the potential of most clubs for the foreseeable future.

Edited August 23, 2014 by falcace

[orion]

Not sure why you keep moving the goalposts and start talking about Value etc your first post on the subject was that top riders don't bring in extra fans . The simple fact is Emil when he rode brought more fans in . Any amount of your Child like name calling and losing your temper is not going to change that .

Edited August 23, 2014 by orion

[MARK246]

Anyway, for those that are capable of reading and understanding English, here's my take on Poole. As I have said, they are the best supported and most successful club of recent times.

 

 

Is that the same Poole that nearly closed in 2009 when they were bottom of the league and couldn't get a viable crowd ?

The Poole team is as fragile as all the others. when they're not winning there's no crowd. So the promoter cheats to keep his business profitable.

[Trees]

Go for the racing people, the four guys out on track are what speedway is mainly all about :-)

[stratton]

Bizarre. Utterly bizarre. I am making the point very clearly that GP riders are not offering value. Yet you insist on trotting out Emil Sayfutdinov as an example to prove I am wrong. You probably could not choose a worse example to support your argument if you tried. In my above post I explained that the initial interest in his arrival was due to the sheer novelty of his presence. I used the word novelty three times. Did you miss it? Novelty. There it is again.

Why do you think 40,000 people pay a decent chunk to go to the British GP every year? Yes, its the world's best riders, yes its the best stadium you will see speedway in. But its special because its only once a year. It's a novelty (there's that word again for you). Do you think if the British GP took place every week in Cardiff 40,000 would rock up every week? I'm beginning to wonder if you do believe that would be the case.

Coventry speculated and didn't accumulate when it came to Emil Sayfutdinov. It was a gamble that didn't work. Whilst it sparked extra interest at first. It quickly ebbed away. The novelty went (that's no5 for you). He missed loads of matches and it simply didn't work out. If it was boom time when he was around, isn't it strange that Coventry nor any other British club has ever forked out to bring him back? Isn't that proof enough that even the biggest stars in the sport cannot deliver value for money to our league speedway? It's bleeding obvious in the case of Emil Sayfutdinov.

As for Hans Andersen, who said 7 days a week? Who said lower pay? You're simply arguing with no-one there on points that haven't been made. Without GP riders we would have far less guests/rider replacement. Clubs would be able to structure a sensible fixture list without fear of absentees. Fans could also say - with confidence - which riders from which teams will be racing at their track when. On costs. my fair guess is that Andersen, Nicholls etc would save money on tuners as they wouldn't have to keep up with GP riders. As for what they will get paid, that's up to them to sort out with any promoter that wants them.

I note you still are unable to provide your blueprint for the future? I think it's fair to assume you simply don't have the gumption to come up with one.

However, I gave you a couple of easy yes/no questions to answer regarding crowds being halved without GP riders. I thought the simplicity of those would be within your range. Or are you conveniently ignoring them because they expose what complete drivel you are talking?

I wonder if spelling is more your thing? Then again, probably not. I assume you meant to name yourself ONION on here instead? You're certainly very good at getting yourself in a pickle.

Anyway, for those that are capable of reading and understanding English, here's my take on Poole. As I have said, they are the best supported and most successful club of recent times. There's a few reasons for that. Partly, Poole has become one of England's most wealthiest areas over the last couple of decades. There are certainly people around Poole who have more disposable income than most. And when it comes to watching live sport, Poole Speedway are the only show in town. So they get a decent crowd through the gate and one with a bit of cash on the hip to spend on beer and grub. Aligned with an excellent promoter in Matt Ford - one who has on occasions also bent the rules to breaking point - they have made the most of a promising environment to operate a successful and winning speedway club. Of course there are other clubs in this type of situation and don't make the most of it. But for the vast majority of speedway clubs in the UK, they do not operate in such a favourable environment. If Matt Ford were to walk out on Poole and take over at say Belle Vue, Redcar or Edinburgh would he be able to make them as big a success as Poole? He might make a slight improvement, but as successful? Not a chance. That's why when people say 'Why can't more clubs be like Poole?' they are simply not being realistic. It's why any future model for the sport cannot be modelled on what Poole can do. Frankly, it's way beyond the potential of most clubs for the foreseeable future.

 

Great post and i agree with everything,GP riders we all love watching them ride but they are not viable anymore.WHEN sky pull out and they will at some stage we now need to be prudent and have a long term plan in place for that eventuality.

[cowboy cookie returns?]

Go for the racing people, the four guys out on track are what speedway is mainly all about :-)

Four guys racing on the track is what it should be about & the sport should be simple & inexpensive to follow because of that.................the problem is that the many rules & regs that surround the sport are just crazy & that is what makes myself & many others no longer willing to pay the price that the promoters are asking for what is on offer.

Why not bring the two leagues together & split the clubs into two divisions with no crazy rules & do away with guests & take the sport back to basics & try to bring some credibility back to the sport in the hope that this will holt the slide in attendance figures & overtime see them start to rise & yes this means using riders who are based & will commit full time to UK speedway. Each team would meet once in the league & the KO cup would be run involving all sides from both divisions each round over two legs & try the dreaded promotion & relegation would all so be tried again.

That's one option but if the BSPA & sky really still believe that they can make a proper Elite League work then they must look at Indian Primer League Cricket to see the way forward.

That would mean trying to find someone to bank roll such a league maybe Monster? having 8 tracks with top line riders in all sides & just have a league programme of 14 meetings per team either run over a couple of months mid summer or on the dreaded fixed night idea.

[Trees]

Of course there is all the sh#t that goes with speedway BUT if u can go, pay ya dosh and just watch the racing/support your team like loads of people do then your enthusiasm may be rekindled?

[cowboy cookie returns?]

Of course there is all the sh#t that goes with speedway BUT if u can go, pay ya dosh and just watch the racing/support your team like loads of people do then your enthusiasm may be rekindled?

The problem is that no longer are loads of people going I can only use Ipswich because that is my local track but I would suggest that the crowds have dropped by 50% in the last 25 years this also takes away enjoyment due to lack of atmosphere!

The reason that I no longer go & others that I know is down to the rules in the main.

[moxey63]

I have always thought a programme is a vital part of the night's entertainment. But, now some are as expensive as the Speedway Star magazine etc and perhaps efforts should be made to reduce the prices and even banish the efforts of trying to rival speedway programmes with Premier soccer ones.

 

I think a racecard should be sold. I know some will say the programme is a vital part of clubs' income, but it could be so easily putting off a family from attending. Five programmes is a lot to shell out for, especially when it's only the racecard that people want. On top of five admission prices etc.

 

How many people put the importance of purchasing a programme into the full night's entertainment and cannot justify the full price.

 

As I say, some fans will say that a programme is important for the club, finances etc. It is over-priced usually, so therefore must be ripping off the fan. If fans say they cannot/will not pay the money tracks charge now, how can they justify saying a programme is much needed income?

 

I am going throught the 1984 Speedway Stars right now, in fact, to compile a yearbook for that season. In a column in that very special mag, "Whisperit" has a dig about a certain British League track (Poole) having no number one rider (Michael Lee, on another of his awol) but at least can boast to having (tongue in cheek) the Best Programme In The League! I think it was an effort to show how some speedways focused on the wrong things....

Edited August 24, 2014 by moxey63

[Barney Rabbit]

Of course there is all the sh#t that goes with speedway BUT if u can go, pay ya dosh and just watch the racing/support your team like loads of people do then your enthusiasm may be rekindled?

 

I always saw 'support your team' as more than just watching the racing and shouting for red and blue at home etc. I wanted my team to be on the same playing field as the opposition, at least when teams were put together, but that was not the case. I wanted the powers that be to treat my team the same way they treated all the others but again, it was patently obvious that was not the case, that all are equal but some more equal than others. I wanted the team that finishes top of the table after the home and away matches to be League Champions not merely top of the qualifying group, thus relegating league matches to qualifying matches. In short, speedway, to me, was more than watch fifteen heats, go home, come back another day and watch fifteen heats....What went on between those sets of fifteen heats was just as important.

[Chadster]

I grew up with speedway in the 1960s, so from a nostalgic perspective I might favour one big league, 13 heats and a second half, the old tac sub rule etc. However, 13 heats was not a good formula and there were good reasons why second halves were abolished. People arguing for greater value for money seem reluctant to accept a logical step, which would seem to be longer matches. 18 heats was tried a while ago, is it time to think again? However, are the riders available? One weakness of the one big league approach is that if it included the 22 teams currently in the top 2 flights they would need 154 riders to stock the teams. I'm not sure at the moment there are sufficient riders of the standard available and that the top 2 flights are only able to run because of the amount of doubling up that's going on.

[The White Knight]

 

Does it need to be a credible sport?

Monster Trucks? Massive in many ways!?

Freestyle Moto x Jumping??!

Drifting?!

Wrestling?!

 

None credible sports but get pretty big crowds (Fill giant arenas in some countries)

 

It needs to be more modern and entertaining

How about not marketing Speedway as a Sport any more. Market it as 'Sports Entertainment' the same as the WWE. It already has some of the more ridiculous Rules ergo it would make sense to make the change.

 

Neither has any credibility - BUT - at least the WWE is honest as to where it is in the grand scheme of things and - doesn't pretend to be something it isn't.

 

Of course there is all the sh#t that goes with speedway BUT if u can go, pay ya dosh and just watch the racing/support your team like loads of people do then your enthusiasm may be rekindled?

Not - I think - in my case. :sad:

Edited August 24, 2014 by The White Knight

[marko]

Oh don't get me started on proggys! they are nearly all as bad as each other but to use my local track as an example, Lakeside charge £3 for theirs and you get 32 odd pages, my local non league football team produce a proggy that is twice the size and content but only costs £2.50 and their crowds are often less than Lakesides so its not like they are getting revenue elsewhere.

Speedway always marks itself up to be needlessly expensive.

[SteveLyric2]

Oh don't get me started on proggys! they are nearly all as bad as each other but to use my local track as an example, Lakeside charge £3 for theirs and you get 32 odd pages, my local non league football team produce a proggy that is twice the size and content but only costs £2.50 and their crowds are often less than Lakesides so its not like they are getting revenue elsewhere.

Speedway always marks itself up to be needlessly expensive.

£3 for 48 full-colour pages at Poole. Don't forget the revenue from programmes is often one of the few revenue streams for the speedway club. Football clubs usually get all the food and beverage and carpark revenue!!!

[RobMcCaffery]

Four guys racing on the track is what it should be about & the sport should be simple & inexpensive to follow because of that.................the problem is that the many rules & regs that surround the sport are just crazy & that is what makes myself & many others no longer willing to pay the price that the promoters are asking for what is on offer.

Why not bring the two leagues together & split the clubs into two divisions with no crazy rules & do away with guests & take the sport back to basics & try to bring some credibility back to the sport in the hope that this will holt the slide in attendance figures & overtime see them start to rise & yes this means using riders who are based & will commit full time to UK speedway. Each team would meet once in the league & the KO cup would be run involving all sides from both divisions each round over two legs & try the dreaded promotion & relegation would all so be tried again.

That's one option but if the BSPA & sky really still believe that they can make a proper Elite League work then they must look at Indian Primer League Cricket to see the way forward.

That would mean trying to find someone to bank roll such a league maybe Monster? having 8 tracks with top line riders in all sides & just have a league programme of 14 meetings per team either run over a couple of months mid summer or on the dreaded fixed night idea.

 

Yes, but this time we MUST ensure that the amalgamation is at Premier League level and that the clubs in that competition do not suffer as a result, unlike the BL/NL merger of the early 90s when the NL clubs were royally shafted. Sadly promotions like Poole's will never, ever allow this solution to happen.

[Bruiser McHuge]

The advertising space in the programme is a vital part of the funds coming into a club so if they scrapped the programme for a scorecard then they lose all the advertising revenue on top of the programme sales revenue....that's a lot to give up

[Leicester Lion]

I grew up with speedway in the 1960s, so from a nostalgic perspective I might favour one big league, 13 heats and a second half, the old tac sub rule etc. However, 13 heats was not a good formula and there were good reasons why second halves were abolished. People arguing for greater value for money seem reluctant to accept a logical step, which would seem to be longer matches. 18 heats was tried a while ago, is it time to think again? However, are the riders available? One weakness of the one big league approach is that if it included the 22 teams currently in the top 2 flights they would need 154 riders to stock the teams. I'm not sure at the moment there are sufficient riders of the standard available and that the top 2 flights are only able to run because of the amount of doubling up that's going on.

Doubling up between EL and PL teams, along with riders appearing for teams in different countries, sustain an impression that there are plenty of decent riders to go round. Loyalty is an integral part of supporting a team, but it's hard to buy into this concept when many of the riders go away and ride for several other teams even during the same week. Sadly, I think British speedway has gone too far down the line of extending doubling up opportunities to revert to a system of one rider one team. Too many riders now depend on the income doubling up brings, and the system enables teams to track a line-up of greater strength and more attraction than if there was no doubling up. For these reasons, I doubt we will see one big league again, as desirable as it is to the fans.

[moxey63]

The advertising space in the programme is a vital part of the funds coming into a club so if they scrapped the programme for a scorecard then they lose all the advertising revenue on top of the programme sales revenue....that's a lot to give up

Understandable. They could lower the asking price, sell more, and make people more aware of their sponsors in the programme.

[ColinMills]

Doubling up between EL and PL teams, along with riders appearing for teams in different countries, sustain an impression that there are plenty of decent riders to go round. Loyalty is an integral part of supporting a team, but it's hard to buy into this concept when many of the riders go away and ride for several other teams even during the same week. Sadly, I think British speedway has gone too far down the line of extending doubling up opportunities to revert to a system of one rider one team. Too many riders now depend on the income doubling up brings, and the system enables teams to track a line-up of greater strength and more attraction than if there was no doubling up. For these reasons, I doubt we will see one big league again, as desirable as it is to the fans.

riders depending on doubling up for income?....NO..the majority of speedway fans dont want to see riders flip from one team to another night after night, and quite frankly i dont give 2 hoots if a rider cant make a living riding for just 1 team. this is a TEAM sport.. it may sound harsh, but riders can always get a part time job elsewhere!....its what happened in the past, the days of doubling up has simply got to end, its pathetic how many racejackets these riders are wearing every night

[cowboy cookie returns?]

 

Yes, but this time we MUST ensure that the amalgamation is at Premier League level and that the clubs in that competition do not suffer as a result, unlike the BL/NL merger of the early 90s when the NL clubs were royally shafted. Sadly promotions like Poole's will never, ever allow this solution to happen.

As a result of that amalgamation the old NL was killed off which is ironic as in my view that league was the closest that this country had to a well run league oh and no guests.

Looking through my old programmes on 89/90 I see the only time Ipswich had a guest was for a challenge match v Kings Lynn & we had Andy Galvin replacing a reserve.