The Future Of The Elite League

[oldace]

What would bring you back oldace? The new stadium? Return of star riders to the el? Knowing the meeting would be slickly presented and completed in an hour and a half?

The starting point for reviving the elshould surely be winning back lapsed fans, as if the product is right they should be easier targets than strangers to the sport.

 

Years ago myself and Moxey were probably the only two dissenting voices on here. More often than not we were met with the old "if you don't like it don't go" type speech. Of course now that trickle of lost fans has turned into a tidal wave, ironically a number of those now not attending and voicing dissatisfaction are the ones who took exception all those years ago.

 

It is well and good looking for new fans, but if the current fare doesn't even appeal to those with an obvious affinity to the sport what chance it will appeal to newcomers. The establishment of speedway are largely to blame. Promoters have gone on believing they have a divine right to custom who should turn up no matter what, they completely lost sight of the notion of competing for the leisure dollar. A few lost fans did't matter, just up the admission cost a bit and all will be OK. As things got worse fans were (still are) convinced that none of it is the clubs fault. It is, after all, far easier to find excuses to do nothing than get off your arce and do something.

 

You only need read some of Tsunamis posts to get an idea of all that's wrong with the sport.

 

As for me, what would get me back? In truth probably nothing. I have moved on and my time is spent doing other things.

 

For me I never cared if the promotion made, or lost a fortune. All I cared about was a value for money night out. For a long time speedway provided that. The result certainly never mattered, nor did league position (although I appreciate it does to many) Even the standard of racing isn't the be all and end all. A poor match racing wise can be masked if the whole show is well presented and slick. A match should be a steady 90 mins of entertainment, not 15 one minute bursts of action with 4 mins dead time between each.

[moxey63]

OldAce, I recall the abuse (nothing bad) we got back from fans, just for having a say on what we were watching drift down the pan.

 

Some Belle Vue fans didn't like it. It was like telling your best mate that he is being cheated on - you were giving them the truth but they couldn't see it or simply chose not to. They would rather de-friend you and pretend everything's alright.

 

You, like me, didn't go off speedway overnight... even if you have now. You were just worn down by it. Some will say now... but why are you on here?

 

Maybe for old time's sake, I'd reply.

 

I used to watch the crowd at Belle Vue, notice the excitement gleaned from people who you knew were witnessing speedway for the first time. I used to feel proud, a sport was discovered by someone and given the same thrill as I had enjoyed. I felt vindicated in following a little-known motorcycle sport.

 

Where did it go so wrong?

 

I doubt i'll ever be encouraged back as a regular. It is just frustrating, so many others are now feeling the same.

 

The product is still thrilling, on its day, and needs a complete overhaul of everything that has been patched up with tape for many years, just to get by for the new season.

 

It is the short term-ism that I could give anymore of my already shortening years to.

 

The thing is, OldAce, people who no longer attend aren't classed as important.. why they don't go, what made them stop going?

 

I always check on negative reviews before the lavish praise. Perhaps speedway promoters should adhere to this method.

Edited August 19, 2014 by moxey63

[cowboy cookie returns?]

Does anyone know if people in power reads these forums or are we just seen as a moaning bunch of has beans?

[The White Knight]

i don't believe league speedway is struggling because of the golden double rule or because of guests replacing a top rider..that has been going on for years....if a number 1 is missing then there is no better alternative than having a guest....it never stopped fans coming before...it doesnt stop them now,,it's a necessary evil..

 

the thing stopping fans coming is that there are not enough teams...teams are cobbled together on a yearly basis with virtually no connection to the local fans...fans know they are basically hired hands for a few months and will more than likely be a hired hand for somebody else the following season....who know what clubs actually own which rider these days.

There are not enough meetings....when i started going it was a meeting every week at the same time..usually with the same 7 riders against a different team every week...there were away supporters there in numbers..there was an atmosphere...these days there are too long a gap between meetings...when a meeting comes around its against the same old teams , who are usually turning up with half their team missing anyway...where is the encouragement for anybody to follow that...

part of the attraction in the old days was that you only got to see certain teams once a season, twice if you were lucky so you got to see a certain world star only on that occasion...there was anticipation in seeing riders so rarely in the flesh...

 

if you look back, often the racing was no better than today...the stadiums were a bit run down ...but there was variety...regular meetings and a crowd to add to the atmosphere,..there were world stars and a regular 1 to 7 where more riders actually hung around to complete a few seasons with the club..it felt like your club, your riders....none of that exists today

 

with the advent of multi channel TV, internet, computer games etc there is just so much more to stop people attending these days and the old days will never return , but speedway doesnt help itself thats for sure..

 

finally...the old tac sub rule was far superior to the golden double !!!....in fact it was a highlight of the meeting for me to watch it happen....although i cannot believe anybody has stopped going these days purely because of the golden double...the problems are much deeper than that..

You better believe it.

 

The Golden Double was a MAJOR, MAJOR contributor to my decision. That and the 'Play Offs'. There are other Regulations that I don't agree with too - BUT - those two are the main reasons I have had enough.

[Bruiser McHuge]

You better believe it.

 

The Golden Double was a MAJOR, MAJOR contributor to my decision. That and the 'Play Offs'. There are other Regulations that I don't agree with too - BUT - those two are the main reasons I have had enough.

 

 

 

fair enough....i'm not a fan of the Golden Double..its a farce.....but , and shoot me down, i am a big fan of the play offs....the whole of the season is a bit of a farce with lack of meetings, team strengths and other things...but i do like the play offs i must admit

[The White Knight]

 

You better believe it.

 

The Golden Double was a MAJOR, MAJOR contributor to my decision. That and the 'Play Offs'. There are other Regulations that I don't agree with too - BUT - those two are the main reasons I have had enough.

 

 

 

fair enough....i'm not a fan of the Golden Double..its a farce.....but , and shoot me down, i am a big fan of the play offs....the whole of the season is a bit of a farce with lack of meetings, team strengths and other things...but i do like the play offs i must admit

 

What you say is fair enough Bruiser. That is your opinion, to which you are entitled, and I respect that. I would not dream of "shooting you down". I just don't agree with you.

 

It would be an odd world if we all agreed on everything - wouldn't it. :)

[ColinMills]

You better believe it.

 

The Golden Double was a MAJOR, MAJOR contributor to my decision. That and the 'Play Offs'. There are other Regulations that I don't agree with too - BUT - those two are the main reasons I have had enough.

i fully understand this..the thing is, once you miss a week or two, you just dont go back. you no longer miss it..you will always follow it on tv, forum, speedway star etc

[spin king]

I wouldn't say I am disillusioned with my own teams promotion at Sheffield, far from it. even though our league position is not the best.

 

But at least there is a feeling that they are trying to make improvement to team and presentation.

 

For me the Play Offs are good for the sport, and add to the excitement.

 

I can live with the Tactical double.

 

For me its the feeling that the Premier League appears to have been propping up the Elite League for more seasons that I care to mention, and this season its also National League giving them a lift up as well.

 

How far are the Elite League Promoters prepared to go, this season we have seen but for visa problems Leicester of the Elite League were going to run with the same number 1 as Somerset in the Premier League.

 

This was a group of Promoters who have had the luxury of the more than the lions share of the Sky money, but they squandered that money

 

Many times I have been asked would I like to see my team Sheffield in the Elite League, and the answer has always been the same No Thank you.

[fatface]

I can understand people's frustrations with golden tacticals and other silly rules like rider replacement, guests, doubling up etc.

To me, these are all just symptoms of the unbalanced nature of the league, high costs and far too many riders whose priorities are elsewhere. All the silly rules have been brought in to paper over the cracks and try and make meetings competitve that otherwise just would not be. The vast majority of fans want:

* competitive racing
* reasonable facilities
* a familiar team to support
* variety of opposition

This is much more likely if the promoters:

* go without GP riders
* restructure the leagues to North/South or one big league

In 17 pages, I have seen no evidence to suggest that the top dollar riders actually put more bums on seats in league speedway. Everyone hates the salaries given out to top footballers. But - depressingly - they do put bums on seats, attract mega TV contracts and sell millions of shirts. You can't say the same for speedway's top riders. Sadly, Tai Woffinden and Darcy Ward don't add 1,000s to any league attendance, so why are we paying them so much? There is no novelty of seeing the top guys as there once was. They are on TV reguarly. Beyond, that, if I really had the craving to see Ward or Woffinden I could have them on my smartphone or tablet within 30 seconds.

The money saved on top riders can be used to improve the overall experience of attending live speedway (decent toilets would be a start at some decrepit stadia) and build more evenly balanced teams. Personally, I'd also like to see North/South leagues leading to a play-off final, which would also save costs and increase the likelihood of better away support.

[westhamboy66]

I wouldn't say I am disillusioned with my own teams promotion at Sheffield, far from it. even though our league position is not the best.

 

But at least there is a feeling that they are trying to make improvement to team and presentation.

 

For me the Play Offs are good for the sport, and add to the excitement.

 

I can live with the Tactical double.

 

For me its the feeling that the Premier League appears to have been propping up the Elite League for more seasons that I care to mention, and this season its also National League giving them a lift up as well.

 

How far are the Elite League Promoters prepared to go, this season we have seen but for visa problems Leicester of the Elite League were going to run with the same number 1 as Somerset in the Premier League.

 

This was a group of Promoters who have had the luxury of the more than the lions share of the Sky money, but they squandered that money

 

Many times I have been asked would I like to see my team Sheffield in the Elite League, and the answer has always been the same No Thank you.

Sums up my views in a nutshell being someone who watches mainly PL. I also watch NL and EL but have to say that my order of preference is PL NL EL. The EL is so artificial its embarrassing. Whilst i would love to watch top league racing at Rye House the niche we have is the best, Perhaps the clubs like Birmingham would not be in their current position if they stuck with the tried and tested PL. Peterbourough certainly seem to have more stability than their recent times in the EL

[Bruiser McHuge]

I still think that in general people would like to see the very top riders...I think it's only real die hard fans that say otherwise and they would keep on going regardless...

 

I think if they still had a top league of 18 clubs , each with a real top star or 2 and then some good standard back ups like in my early days...every GP star riding here basically, but you didn't see them every week because it was a different club visiting all the time , then fans would come back ...to a degree...top riders do have an attraction if they are not seen all the time

 

This is never going to happen though...the old days have gone...top riders are not going to return..so we are faced with weak teams facing each other too often with loads of free weeks along the way...that is not a recipe for bringing back old fans or attracting new fans.

 

Off topic, speaking of the old days...I was watching some races from the 70's and early 80's the other day and you forget just he perfect the starts are today, and how awful they were back then...but I never thought anything of it back then.....the 1980 World Final...how Michael Lee ever got away with gating like that !! ...would anybody like to go back to the old tape breaking rule ?.....I thought the pushing at the starts added greatly to the tension...but I can't believe how unfair it actually was looking back.....so some progress is good..

[fatface]

I still think that in general people would like to see the very top riders...I think it's only real die hard fans that say otherwise and they would keep on going regardless...

 

 

Yes, most would like that. But we have to realistic with what the sport can afford.

 

I'd like to see Scarlett Johannson on Coronation Street every week. But I don't think that will ever happen.

[BeoBrummie]

Sums up my views in a nutshell being someone who watches mainly PL. I also watch NL and EL but have to say that my order of preference is PL NL EL. The EL is so artificial its embarrassing. Whilst i would love to watch top league racing at Rye House the niche we have is the best, Perhaps the clubs like Birmingham would not be in their current position if they stuck with the tried and tested PL. Peterbourough certainly seem to have more stability than their recent times in the EL

That would be the same tried and trusted PL that Gary Patchett lost bucket loads of cash when he ran Brum for a year and couldn't get away quick enough!

[Gemini]

I don't think Peterborough are that healthy either.

[spin king]

That would be the same tried and trusted PL that Gary Patchett lost bucket loads of cash when he ran Brum for a year and couldn't get away quick enough!

Is that true, I got the feeling that he could not agree a price for the club.

[mikebv]

It always does amaze me how the promoters run the sport without ever gaining any solicited feedback from their current customer base as to what they like/dislike..

 

A forum that exists such as this giving unsolicited feedback about their business (often from people who no longer frequent their business) should be used as a major part of any operational improvement plan..

 

Market Research incredibly is virtually non existent at all tracks, yet we live in an age where instant feedback is just a press of a button away..

 

For the elite league (or any league) to move forwards surely seeking the views of those who attend/used to attend would be an obvious thing to do?

 

eg GP riders yes or no? Guest riders yes or no? Tactical Rides yes or no? Doubling up, yes or no? What is a value for money admission fee? etc etc etc...

 

Anything that dissuades people from attending your business should be focused on, discussed, root caused, fixed, and not allowed to constantly impact the business negatively..

 

Standard business practice in the 'wider world' yet not followed in the 'speedway world' by people who often run businesses in the 'wider world'...?

 

For the elite league to survive I feel the promoters have to first and foremost be honest and the first thing they should do is plan rules that set up teams that are affordable. If that means no 'superstars', six man teams, more british based riders etc then so be it..

 

As an 'entity' the BSPA have to start working as a collective rather than a bunch of individuals who nod to each other and agree the next (to many) nonsensical rule, whilst already working out how they can work round it to their advantage...

 

One thing is for sure, riders missing due to GP/Euro commitments, dodgy illnesses, tired bodies, riding for one of their other GB team(s), or riding for their overseas team do nothing positive to bring supporters into the stadiums and can only have a negative effect...

 

Add in the constant stories of dodgy average manipulation, poor racing surfaces, laughable presentation standards etc etc etc, and it is easy to see how and why to many the sport in its current guise is dying an irrevocable 'death by 1000 self inflicted cuts'...

 

Maybe this years conference hotel will have very strong coffee available and finally it will be smelt!!!

Edited August 20, 2014 by mikebv

[ColinMills]

It always does amaze me how the promoters run the sport without ever gaining any solicited feedback from their current customer base as to what they like/dislike..

 

A forum that exists such as this giving unsolicited feedback about their business (often from people who no longer frequent their business) should be used as a major part of any operational improvement plan..

 

Market Research incredibly is virtually non existent at all tracks, yet we live in an age where instant feedback is just a press of a button away..

 

For the elite league (or any league) to move forwards surely seeking the views of those who attend/used to attend would be an obvious thing to do?

 

eg GP riders yes or no? Guest riders yes or no? Tactical Rides yes or no? Doubling up, yes or no? What is a value for money admission fee? etc etc etc...

 

Anything that dissuades people from attending your business should be focused on, discussed, root caused, fixed, and not allowed to constantly impact the business negatively..

 

Standard business practice in the 'wider world' yet not followed in the 'speedway world' by people who often run businesses in the 'wider world'...?

 

For the elite league to survive I feel the promoters have to first and foremost be honest and the first thing they should do is plan rules that set up teams that are affordable. If that means no 'superstars', six man teams, more british based riders etc then so be it..

 

As an 'entity' the BSPA have to start working as a collective rather than a bunch of individuals who nod to each other and agree the next (to many) nonsensical rule, whilst already working out how they can work round it to their advantage...

 

One thing is for sure, riders missing due to GP/Euro commitments, dodgy illnesses, tired bodies, riding for one of their other GB team(s), or riding for their overseas team do nothing positive to bring supporters into the stadiums and can only have a negative effect...

 

Add in the constant stories of dodgy average manipulation, poor racing surfaces, laughable presentation standards etc etc etc, and it is easy to see how and why to many the sport in its current guise is dying an irrevocable 'death by 1000 self inflicted cuts'...

 

Maybe this years conference hotel will have very strong coffee available and finally it will be smelt!!!

good post,survey would be interesting, also the ages to see how wide range views are, but yes, i know customer feedback is poor

[Trees]

Closed questions, way to go then no 1001 opinions!

[orion]

In 17 pages, I have seen no evidence to suggest that the top dollar riders actually put more bums on seats in league speedway.

Really silly comment it's quite clear if a Ward or a Woffy come to town then the crowd going to be bigger , just pure common sense . Swindon crowds are nearly always based upon what the oppo side is like .

 

As for being able to afford riders as I said before It's all about money going in and out that's why Poole can afford to Pay Ward and teams like Glasgow and Boro can't even paid there riders even thou they have much lower wages .

 

This great plan of cutting costs and making the standard lower is the same plan for the last 20 years and that is why we find ourselves in the state we are in now .

Sums up my views in a nutshell being someone who watches mainly PL. I also watch NL and EL but have to say that my order of preference is PL NL EL. The EL is so artificial its embarrassing. Whilst i would love to watch top league racing at Rye House the niche we have is the best, Perhaps the clubs like Birmingham would not be in their current position if they stuck with the tried and tested PL. Peterbourough certainly seem to have more stability than their recent times in the EL

??? Boro can even paid there wages and are begging fans to attend . Tell me how well Brum did in money terms in the Pl last time . How are Glasgow getting on ? One day people will wake up and understand that Speedway is not working at any level and that includes pl .

.

[spin king]

Really silly comment it's quite clear if a Ward or a Woffy come to town then the crowd going to be bigger , just pure common sense . Swindon crowds are nearly always based upon what the oppo side is like .

 

As for being able to afford riders as I said before It's all about money going in and out that's why Poole can afford to Pay Ward and teams like Glasgow and Boro can't even paid there riders even thou they have much lower wages .

 

This great plan of cutting costs and making the standard lower is the same plan for the last 20 years and that is why we find ourselves in the state we are in now .

??? Boro can even paid there wages and are begging fans to attend . Tell me how well Brum did in money terms in the Pl last time . How are Glasgow getting on ? One day people will wake up and understand that Speedway is not working at any level and that includes pl .

.

And for me it starts a the very top, and the way the top league has been run.

 

The Elite League has had the lions share of money that has been given to British Speedway and they have messed up, to a point now that there is not much difference between the Premier League and Elite League.

 

If we think back to 10 years ago the standard of the Elite League reduced drastically and the Premier League at worse is no different.