orion Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 (edited) In any team sport you have subs & they can turn a match. In football you could be 1-0 down with 10 to go & a star striker comes on & scores 2 & you win 2-1 not fair on the other team but within the rules & the rule is sensible. Now if a goal that was scored counted for 2 that would be crazy & remember the stick that Fifa got for the golden goal when they tried it the rule was dropped as a result. The problem that speedway has is its rule book & those crazy rules within it have without doubt driven many away myself included. What has speedway done to stop the rot & try to win back people like me well in short nothing other than make the sport more of a joke!! For me to spend my hard earned cash going to speedway I want to see two teams with 7 riders of their own who feel a belonging to the teams that they are riding for. That means riding for one team and no guests................it has been proven that this can be done in the past. I want to see team managers managing so allow the team manager to name his top 5 in any order to try & outwit his counterpart allow him to pick which gates his riders go from. Now the tac sub I would like to see the old 6 point down rule brought back & the joker done away with. I would go as far as say that if the sport wants to be seen as a sport & charge as so then the daft stuff needs sorting out but if the powers that be want jokers guests & riders riding for 3 teams then scrap speedway as a sport & market it as a entertainment & charge about £8 to get in. You have gone on about people being turned off by crazy rules then you ask for the tac sub the most crazy and most unfair of the lot to be brought back . In Football both team have the same choices in bringing subs on at anytime no matter what the score is but in Speedway only the team that is 6 points or more can, hardly fair is it ? . If you don't like crazy rules on any tac subs then fair enough but you post is pointless if you then ask for the tac sub rule to be brought back . I hardly ever agree with White Knight on most things but at least he's made it quite clear he wants no form of tac subs or jokers double points etc . Edited August 16, 2014 by orion 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 You have gone on about people being turned off by crazy rules then you ask for the tac sub the most crazy and most unfair of the lot to be brought back . In Football both team have the same choices in bringing subs on at anytime no matter what the score is but in Speedway only the team that is 6 points or more can, hardly fair is it ? . If you don't like crazy rules on any tac subs then fair enough but you post is pointless if you then ask for the tac sub rule to be brought back . I hardly ever agree with White Knight on most things but at least he's made it quite clear he wants no form of tac subs or jokers double points etc . imo the tac sub rule worked extremely well in the boom years, there were still thrashings of 51-27 etc, the managers had loads of options under that ruling.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 I prefer the tac sub rule too. But its nonsense for people to say it's less unfair or less of a joke than the current double point ride rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 (edited) Duplicate Edited August 17, 2014 by waihekeaces1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 (edited) Duplicate Edited August 17, 2014 by waihekeaces1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 The future of the elite leagues is safe if monday night is anything to go by.... Daniel Halsey and Adam Ellis are going to ride against Belle Vue both for their own clubs and their play off rivals on the same evening.. Thus effectively either scoring enough points to help prevent themselves reaching the play offs or not scoring enough points which will possibly leave them open to accusations of not trying hard enough to help prevent themselves reaching the play offs...... All to win a competition that by definition of allowing such rules to exist renders it total mickey mouse bollox with zero credibility anyway.... All this is available for just 25 of your English pounds..... Get there early and form an orderly queue!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny the spud Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 £25 for two speedway meetings?? Isn't that what people have been crying out for ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 £25 for two speedway meetings?? Isn't that what people have been crying out for ? Yes, but the caveat to that is you would want to be watching two teams using their own riders... Otherwise the integrity of the competition you are watching is such bollox that you may as well just run challenge matches... Many on here say they are happy as long as it is seven riders v seven riders and they are entitled to that view, however quite simply no professional sport can run itself on speedways rules and then wonder why it isnt taken seriously by both the wider media and an ever dwindling fan base.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 Mikebv. What is your proposed solution? Guests and r/r have been around for 40+ years and noone seems to have found a practical solution. What do u suggest? Teams track a local junior in case of missing a rider? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 Mikebv. What is your proposed solution? Guests and r/r have been around for 40+ years and noone seems to have found a practical solution. What do u suggest? Teams track a local junior in case of missing a rider? Do what the poles and swedes do? 'Ah but it costs too much'...... Then always have a mickey mouse competition or just stick to challenge matches where you can put together select teams weekly, as we do now... Oh hang on, if we did that people would stop attending such contrived nonsense wouldn't they? Wait a minute..... Doh!!!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulco Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 A number of EL promoters wanted to drop their prices this season but the PL clubs complained that the fans would complain it was unfair the EL cost the same or less than the PL! It does though . I paid £16 to get into Kings Lynn v Leicester the other week and paid £16 to get into Ipswich v Glasgow the following evening . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowboy cookie returns? Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 Well if nothing is done to save the sport in this country then we can all sit on this forum & have a discussion about what killed off speedway..... the bottom line is the endless rule changes most of which have turned this once great sport in to a micky mouse side show have done nothing but damage to league speedway & driven away the crowds. In my collection of old speedway videos I came across a programme that channel 4 did on the sport in around 1993 mainly centred on Gary Havelock & a couple of quotes from that programme shows how little things have changed. On the issue of money a young Dave Norris said he was braking even & Eric Boocock said he could not see speedway dying but something had to be done as the sport was down to its diehard core fan base. So over 20 years on the costs to the riders are higher than ever so nothing has been done about point 1 & nothing has been done on point 2 as the crowds are at an all time low. I would suggest that the crowd level's at most tracks have halved since that programme was made which is evidence enough that the powers that be have got it totally wrong over that time unless you have rose tinted glasses then all is well & the leagues will still be running in 5 years time. You have gone on about people being turned off by crazy rules then you ask for the tac sub the most crazy and most unfair of the lot to be brought back .In Football both team have the same choices in bringing subs on at anytime no matter what the score is but in Speedway only the team that is 6 points or more can, hardly fair is it ? . If you don't like crazy rules on any tac subs then fair enough but you post is pointless if you then ask for the tac sub rule to be brought back . I hardly ever agree with White Knight on most things but at least he's made it quite clear he wants no form of tac subs or jokers double points etc . The old rule had its faults but the bottom line is nothing is more crazy than double points it turns the sport in to a joke. Mikebv. What is your proposed solution? Guests and r/r have been around for 40+ years and noone seems to have found a practical solution. What do u suggest? Teams track a local junior in case of missing a rider? That's what happens in Poland & Sweden & what used to happen in the old National league in the late 80's & early 90's so guests were not used. The rider replacement rule & naming a number 8 to cover for short term injury I have no problem with. I well remember 1990 when Ipswich lost Dave Norris & Dean Standing to injury we used rider replacement to cover one & a junior to cover the other & yes it made us weaker but the team was still an Ipswich team. But today when at times you have a 'team' that has 2 guests & is also using rider replacement to cover for riders who are riding elsewhere that is just ridiculous!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lefty Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 Last night saw four Elite teams in action: Eastbourne v Coventry & Leicester v Lakeside. Three of the sides used r/r, so the fans don't see a full team and the meetings take longer to complete. I have friends who have had enough of this and have become 'armchair' supporters. They wanted a team of seven riders to support - not guests, r/r & fast track fillers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulco Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 But today when at times you have a 'team' that has 2 guests & is also using rider replacement to cover for riders who are riding elsewhere that is just ridiculous!! That's the situation that happened at Berwick last night and will happen at Glasgow today . This nonsense has to stop , people want to see their riders riding for their team from one week to the next . Yes injuries happen and there's not a lot that can be done about that . But to turn up and support your team and discover one or two of your riders is away riding in a daft long track meeting in some god forsaken part of Europe is completely unacceptable and cant be allowed to continue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 (edited) The double points rules you can only score a max of 6 points and you have 10 points down and even more to used it twice . tell me how many could you score from the old tac rule . You could also had extra rides and also bring in say the World champion for you number 7 in a race . Also if you look at the stats you find that more match results were changed because of the old tac rule . This is why it's the biggest laugh when the old fans moan about crazy rules but then say they liked the old tac rule . I thik it just adds fuel the fire that old fans just like things from there days rather than how fair it is . Edited August 17, 2014 by orion 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowboy cookie returns? Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 The double points rules you can only score a max of 6 points and you have 10 points down and even more to used it twice . tell me how many could you score from the old tac rule . You could also had extra rides and also bring in say the World champion for you number 7 in a race . Also if you look at the stats you find that more match results were changed because of the old tac rule . This is why it's the biggest laugh when the old fans moan about crazy rules but then say they liked the old tac rule . I thik it just adds fuel the fire that old fans just like things from there days rather than how fair it is . Well we all have our own idea's & yes I prefer the old ruling. The current state of the rule book inc the joker tac sub rule guests double up double down riders etc etc etc are the main reasons that I have walked away as paying supporter & now get my fix via tv and before you ask if there was no speedway on the box would I return to the terrace the answer is no. As for being an old fan yes I am I supported my local team for over 20 years but stopped going as a regular 6 years ago & have seen two matches in the last 18 months. The age of this old fan who liked the old days well I am 36 so not an old fuddy duddy!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 (edited) Duplicate No - Triplicate. :rofl: I have already told my friend with whom I go to the Speedway that I will NOT be attending every week next Season. I will become a 'Now and again'/Armchair Supporter. My reasons for this are solely due to the Double Points and the Play Off Rules. I do realise that some will think, thank goodness for that. The downside is that you will still have me to put up with on this Forum. I can no longer continue to regularly support a Sport that has, in my eyes, totally lost it's credibility. :sad: Edited August 17, 2014 by The White Knight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 at last....middlo comments in daily star, is exactly what i have been on about for ages..he states "it doesnt matter, most of the season, its about coming to the boil for the play offs"........"it doesnt matter"....crowds are high in the play offs, cos its a meaningful match..crowds are down for 5 months cos it doesnt matter..if your bottom, crowds are down anyway, and if your clear top it doesnt matter..why spend £50 for a family night out, if it "doesnt matter"..people who think play offs are the saviour of clubs are mistaken, as they only get back, what they lose early season..quite frankly "it doesnt matter" 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandorum Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 The double points rules you can only score a max of 6 points and you have 10 points down and even more to used it twice . tell me how many could you score from the old tac rule . You could also had extra rides and also bring in say the World champion for you number 7 in a race . Also if you look at the stats you find that more match results were changed because of the old tac rule . This is why it's the biggest laugh when the old fans moan about crazy rules but then say they liked the old tac rule . I thik it just adds fuel the fire that old fans just like things from there days rather than how fair it is . The old tac sub rule allows a team to actually USE tactics whereas the new 'Joker' rule does not as you may not be able to hit back immediately and have to wait until you have someone who can use the DP rule and by then be further adrift. Tams like Poole who 3 heat leaders have an advantage as they generally can bring in someone almost at once. The old rule worked but the new one does not so the argument favours the old rule. Too many teams disadvantaged by the Joker rule whilst the tac sub rule gave teams options. Whether they took them or not is a different story Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 at last....middlo comments in daily star, is exactly what i have been on about for ages..he states "it doesnt matter, most of the season, its about coming to the boil for the play offs"........"it doesnt matter"....crowds are high in the play offs, cos its a meaningful match..crowds are down for 5 months cos it doesnt matter..if your bottom, crowds are down anyway, and if your clear top it doesnt matter..why spend £50 for a family night out, if it "doesnt matter"..people who think play offs are the saviour of clubs are mistaken, as they only get back, what they lose early season..quite frankly "it doesnt matter" This, if true, confirms me in my earlier Decision about walking away. :sad: I DOESN'T MATTER!!! :sad: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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