orion Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 That's exactly what I've been banging on about for ages - well in, mick, spot on! Not spot thou is it .. as first of all Crowds have been falling long before you could watch tv matches . And me like many others only started going back to speedway when it came back on tv . Yet again most sports due to sky are now shown live on tv and many like Darts have bigger crowds than they did . To say any sport because you can watch it on tv will somehow make them not go out watch the sport on another night is not been proved in any way . Of course like most sports a live broadcast will have a effect on the crowd of that event . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weatherwatcher Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 When did the riders start to get so greedy. I think it was some time in the late 70's early 80's when big changes happened in the sport. The new drop down bikes came along and what used to be a part time mainly amatuer sport, sudenly became a big money earing potential for the top riders. With these riders getting huge sums of money from big sponsers. What was a bloke tinkering with his bike in a shed down the garden after he came home from work, then carting it off strapped to the back of his car, turnrd out to be riders with 6 or 7 bikes and a team of machanics and top engine tuners working on his bikes. Gone then where the days that the riders rode because they loved the sport, but rode to make as much money as they could get from promoters and sponsers. Those days will never come back and I think that thier real love have racing has been lost. Don't get me wrong some of the riders do still love the sport, but is it the thought of getting to the top of the tree rather than the l9ove of the sport that drives them on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 Not spot thou is it .. as first of all Crowds have been falling long before you could watch tv matches . And me like many others only started going back to speedway when it came back on tv . Yet again most sports due to sky are now shown live on tv and many like Darts have bigger crowds than they did . To say any sport because you can watch it on tv will somehow make them not go out watch the sport on another night is not been proved in any way . Of course like most sports a live broadcast will have a effect on the crowd of that event . In your belief and i respect that,you believe the stars have to stay i don't disagree what a pleasure it is to see Ward (ect) but now we all know it is hanging on by a thread.Some longterm planning has to be made changes some hard ones to be made but there is still hope.As the Belle Vue bloke made a great post about Zagar in a earlier post, the crowds would not change that much the die hard fans will still go also the club would be minus a fat weekly salary.From then on you could maybe have a ten/twelve pound night out and the most important thing is to try and give a good evening's entertainment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 (edited) In your belief and i respect that,you believe the stars have to stay i don't disagree what a pleasure it is to see Ward (ect) but now we all know it is hanging on by a thread.Some longterm planning has to be made changes some hard ones to be made but there is still hope.As the Belle Vue bloke made a great post about Zagar in a earlier post, the crowds would not change that much the die hard fans will still go also the club would be minus a fat weekly salary.From then on you could maybe have a ten/twelve pound night out and the most important thing is to try and give a good evening's entertainment. I Don't agree with the post about Zagar ...if dies hard turn up every week no matter who was riding then the crowds each match would be about the same the fact is When Swindon ride Poole and Wolves the crowds are bigger due to Ward and Woffy . Also as I pointed out to yesterday Leigh Adams used to put 300 or fans on the gate so to say that star riders don't have effect on crowds is untrue . Edited August 12, 2014 by orion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 All those advocating cutting the standard further quite simply must be blind. What do you think they have been doing for the last 10 years? Its been cut, cut, cut, cut. What has happened as a result of that? Less people attending. It's not hard to spot the pattern, yet still folk advocate continuing it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifaxtiger Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 I Don't agree with the post about Zagar ...if dies hard turn up every week no matter who was riding then the crowds each match would be about the same the fact is When Swindon ride Poole and Wolves the crowds are bigger due to Ward and Woffy . Also as I pointed out to yesterday Leigh Adams used to put 300 or fans on the gate so to say that star riders don't have effect on crowds is untrue . I'm not so sure. Mike's figures are pretty much what I have been told and I don't think if Zagar left 200 would stop coming. I would accept that top riders do pull in additional fans but whether they pull in the additional numbers to justify their earnings is another matter. You're right about PL clubs being in financial difficulty but I doubt that any are making the 6 figure losses that Eastbourne apparently are, and while Peterborough are still losing money the gates to me are about the same, everyone says the racing is much better and I don't doubt that the losses are way below what Rick Frost was shelling out season after season. You're also right about TV coverage. At a wild guess, I'd say we have probably lost some on balance but nowhere near as many as would make up the revenue from Sky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 When Zagar rode for Swindon fans from Reading some that post on here would go just to watch him ride . Also when him and Leigh Adams were riding the crowds were decent and we were doing ok the moment they left and replaced them with Scot Nicholls ect Swindon have lost money season after season . Not sure who told you about the Boro crowds but reading the boro topics and the Mick Hortons statements the crowds have been shocking . Not sure why thou as you say the racing is great and that is what all people care about so we have been told . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hans fan Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 Not sure who told you about the Boro crowds but reading the boro topics and the Mick Hortons statements the crowds have been shocking . Not sure why thou as you say the racing is great and that is what all people care about so we have been told . there has been some poor crowds with 500 odd , but Horton never mentions when there's well over a thousand coming thro the gate , Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifaxtiger Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 (edited) When Zagar rode for Swindon fans from Reading some that post on here would go just to watch him ride . Also when him and Leigh Adams were riding the crowds were decent and we were doing ok the moment they left and replaced them with Scot Nicholls ect Swindon have lost money season after season . Not sure who told you about the Boro crowds but reading the boro topics and the Mick Hortons statements the crowds have been shocking . Not sure why thou as you say the racing is great and that is what all people care about so we have been told . Simply based upon what they have been like when I have been there. According to Mick Horton, they are 200 down a week or £3,000 or so. Over a season, that's maybe £80k. Julie Mahoney said the EL Panthers were losing 'upwards of £100k'. Clearly, Horton's losses are still too much and my figures are very rough, but cutting £20k or more off those losses illustrates my point that PL speedway is more viable than EL and could be the difference in some places between survival and closure. Edited August 12, 2014 by Halifaxtiger 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 I Don't agree with the post about Zagar ...if dies hard turn up every week no matter who was riding then the crowds each match would be about the same the fact is When Swindon ride Poole and Wolves the crowds are bigger due to Ward and Woffy . Also as I pointed out to yesterday Leigh Adams used to put 300 or fans on the gate so to say that star riders don't have effect on crowds is untrue .Not anough to justify keeping them though,Adams put 300 on the gate Briggs more than anyone in Swindon's history and Ashby and Crump senior on par with Leigh.The difference is Orion the sport was in better shape then much better than now these top guys do not earn shirt buttons now they are exspensive and they deserve that.We can all watch the top boys on the tv anyway, we can all except Britain is a after thought the days of watching a top rider once a year only and being excited are long gone.So why not be prudent for the long haul balance the books and go from there.! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 Simply based upon what they have been like when I have been there. According to Mick Horton, they are 200 down a week or £3,000 or so. Over a season, that's maybe £80k. Julie Mahoney said the EL Panthers were losing 'upwards of £100k'. Clearly, Horton's losses are still too much and my figures are very rough, but cutting £20k or more off those losses illustrates my point that PL speedway is more viable than EL and could be the difference in some places between survival and closure. Yet again it depends who is running the club no offence to Frost and Mahoney but I thought they done a poor job at Boro and that go's back to my point about Phillips and busting Brum at any level . You can't go league or league on losses without factoring in who is running the club 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 All those advocating cutting the standard further quite simply must be blind. What do you think they have been doing for the last 10 years? Its been cut, cut, cut, cut. What has happened as a result of that? Less people attending. It's not hard to spot the pattern, yet still folk advocate continuing it. Keep paying and you won't have a sport simples, certainly the EL the sport has not cut cut cut in Britain they still pay a decent wedge i have heard sums mentioned the top boys anyway( thats the problem).But we are now down the list of priorities in riders minds,we are a league to ride in for a bit of extra revenue no more than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hans fan Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 Yet again it depends who is running the club no offence to Frost and Mahoney but I thought they done a poor job at Boro and that go's back to my point about Phillips and busting Brum at any level . You can't go league or league on losses without factoring in who is running the club the frosts were cacked on from a high level often ,in my mind the reason they got out was because they wouldn't have stood a chance this season of winning anything with the reserve situation , probably would have done a lot more than 100k with less sky money coming in , they wanted the best riders in the world riding (and would have payed them ) just what you want to see , but other members of the bspa certainly made sure they didn't stand a chance of improving the product in this country 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 Not anough to justify keeping them though,Adams put 300 on the gate Briggs more than anyone in Swindon's history and Ashby and Crump senior on par with Leigh.The difference is Orion the sport was in better shape then much better than now these top guys do not earn shirt buttons now they are exspensive and they deserve that.We can all watch the top boys on the tv anyway, we can all except Britain is a after thought the days of watching a top rider once a year only and being excited are long gone.So why not be prudent for the long haul balance the books and go from there.! Adams never earned shirt buttons did he and when rode near the end the sport was still in a bad way ? tell me has Swindon Speedway been in a better state with or without him ? Ask Matt Ford if he feels he can justify keeping Darcy Ward or Holder and he will tell you yes due to the extra crowds they can bring in . You don't balance the books by just cutting the top earners out as some will pay for themselves . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 (edited) Adams never earned shirt buttons did he and when rode near the end the sport was still in a bad way ? tell me has Swindon Speedway been in a better state with or without him ?Ask Matt Ford if he feels he can justify keeping Darcy Ward or Holder and he will tell you yes due to the extra crowds they can bring in . You don't balance the books by just cutting the top earners out as some will pay for themselves .No one is bigger than the club and since Leigh retired the sport has changed so much certainly in Britain.One meeting at the abbey against Eastbourne we had about 800.? Unreal we used to get 1200, 1500 plus times have changed people pick and choose meetings now.To have a high roller now is risky at the moment the sky money compensates for that.Two choices really have a handful of stars get rid of them miss them of course but you may still have a product longterm after.? Edited August 12, 2014 by sidney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 No one is bigger than the club and since Leigh retired the sport has changed so much certainly in Britain.One meeting at the abbey against Eastbourne we had about 800.? Unreal we used to get 1200, 1500 plus times have changed people pick and choose meetings now.To have a high roller now is risky at the moment the sky money compensates for that.Two choices really have a handful of stars get rid of them miss them of course but you may still have a product longterm after.? That's right when had a better standard we had bigger crowds and broke even and better 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Blachshadow Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 (edited) Yet again it depends who is running the club no offence to Frost and Mahoney but I thought they done a poor job at Boro and that go's back to my point about Phillips and busting Brum at any level . You can't go league or league on losses without factoring in who is running the club Course, it's all about money coming in that determines how much you lose as much as money going out. When some other promoters are more than happy to take Mr Frost's money in exchange for a rider's contract and the MC are happy to see the same money circulating within the sport, I'm sure Mr Frost would have appreciated other clubs having the same sense of fair play and spent some of theirs' when getting his paid-for riders from him. As you say, you have to factor in who's running the clubs and obviously not every promoter has Mr Frost's integrity. Edited August 12, 2014 by Vincent Blackshadow 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 That's right when had a better standard we had bigger crowds and broke even and betterA different day different circumstances a different climate simple really,your opinion i hope comes true but i cannot see it.If Leigh was riding today it would be no different better of course but the sport in this country has come to a standstill certainly in the EL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifaxtiger Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 Yet again it depends who is running the club no offence to Frost and Mahoney but I thought they done a poor job at Boro and that go's back to my point about Phillips and busting Brum at any level . You can't go league or league on losses without factoring in who is running the club Yes, that's true. I wonder how many would say that Horton is better than Frost, though ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 A different day different circumstances a different climate simple really,your opinion i hope comes true but i cannot see it.If Leigh was riding today it would be no different better of course but the sport in this country has come to a standstill certainly in the EL. And why is that? What's the common theme.. What has been done every year.. and every year its got worse... but you advocate continuing it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.