stratton Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 Any club has to cut it cloth to amount of money it get's in and pays out it matter's not if they are in the El or Pl . There are clubs in both leagues who make money are there club who lose money as I have already pointed out .I am sure Premier League football clubs would not able to make the kind of signings they do now without the tv /sky money so if that went then just like speedway clubs they would have to budget for thatPlan ahead for when sky eventually pull out,be ahead of the game then there has to be radical changes.I wonder how many clubs make money? not many the sky money is covering over the cracks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 Plan ahead for when sky eventually pull out,be ahead of the game then there has to be radical changes.I wonder how many clubs make money? not many the sky money is covering over the cracks. The sky deal is six years and we are only one year into it .......nothing radical about putting out a weaker product so less fans turn up . That has been going on for the last 20 years hence why we are the state we are now . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 The sky deal is six years and we are only one year into it .......nothing radical about putting out a weaker product so less fans turn up . That has been going on for the last 20 years hence why we are the state we are now .The product and version i see everyweek will struggle to survive in the next six years in my opinion.Why don't the clubs balance the books and save the sky money? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 The product and version i see everyweek will struggle to survive in the next six years in my opinion.Why don't the clubs balance the books and save the sky money? How would they balance the books ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 (edited) How would they balance the books ?Every meeting that is run has to pay for itself to the penny, at the moment that is not happening.Without the sky money clubs certainly would go under i am not as frightened as you about seeing a lower grade i would miss the Top boys of course. But the survival of the league as a whole has to be more important. Edited August 11, 2014 by sidney 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 Every meeting that is run has to pay for itself to the penny, at the moment that is not happening.Without the sky money clubs certainly would go under i am not as frightened as you about seeing a lower grade i would miss the Top boys of course. But the survival of the league as a whole has to be more important. As I said there is less chance of survival without the top boys due to the loss in crowds so it's important that they stay . Yet again the mind set of a lesser grade of rider is somehow going to save speedway and save money is wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 As I said there is less chance of survival without the top boys due to the loss in crowds so it's important that they stay . Yet again the mind set of a lesser grade of rider is somehow going to save speedway and save money is wrongNot save speedway but maybe it could stabilise it and put a new longterm approach in.If Ward, Puk,Tai, and a few others were missing next year would the EL crumble in your opinion.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 Plenty of people on here whinge about the dilution of standard because of the introduction of fast track. How many more would complain if you lost also the likes of tai darcy puk zagar pawlicki etc? If your business is struggling, the easy option is to cut costs. However that can only be done to a point. You then need to look at how to grow revenue, if you keep cutting costs you end up with an inferor product that few will pay for and less profitability than before. One of speedways issues seems to be that not enough focus has been put on the - admitted ly difficult - task of how to increase revenue. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatface Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 Â Getting rid of the best people and crowd pullers makes no sense at all nor do ideas that will mean even less fans ... As I said before the Ward's and Woofies of this world paid for themselves ...a Savy boss would not just at what he pays he would look at what he was getting for his money before he starts to fire people . Does the presence of Tai Woffinden really make that much difference to crowd numbers? I'd be interested to see the evidence. Has there been a significant rise in crowds at Wolves since he became World Champion? Or does the visit of Wolves to Eastbourne or King's Lynn mean they get a big boost in numbers that week? I think we'd have to see some numbers to believe that is the case. Â IMO people go speedway to see close, competitive live racing no matter what level it is at. Thanks to the TV coverage of the GP series, we get a regular fix of the top riders anyway, so there is much less of a craving to see them than there might have been in the past. When Ivan Mauger, Ole Olsen or Peter Collins came with their teams to your home track in the 1970s, it might be the ONLY chance you get to see those riders for a year, bar a couple of highlights packages on TV - which you couldn't video - never mind Sky+ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 I always believe less is more. A team visiting once a year is all you need. Â As for Elite League needing its top men, I personally look at a team line up more than who is its top rider. It is a team spor afterallt, the GPS are for the star names... Â Only the like of Kenny carter and the always weak Halifax proved otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen7 Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 Plenty of people on here whinge about the dilution of standard because of the introduction of fast track. How many more would complain if you lost also the likes of tai darcy puk zagar pawlicki etc? If your business is struggling, the easy option is to cut costs. However that can only be done to a point. You then need to look at how to grow revenue, if you keep cutting costs you end up with an inferor product that few will pay for and less profitability than before. One of speedways issues seems to be that not enough focus has been put on the - admitted ly difficult - task of how to increase revenue. Â Quite likely the most sensible comment yet made. Watering down a product to save money is a recipe for disaster, somehow speedway needs to find a way of attracting more fans. Easier said than done I agree. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 Does the presence of Tai Woffinden really make that much difference to crowd numbers? I'd be interested to see the evidence. Has there been a significant rise in crowds at Wolves since he became World Champion? Or does the visit of Wolves to Eastbourne or King's Lynn mean they get a big boost in numbers that week? I think we'd have to see some numbers to believe that is the case. It probably make a tiny difference. But not enough to justify any huge wages. 99% of the public don't know Woffy and Hancock from Ryan Terry Daley and Arron Mogridge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 (edited) what allegedly zagar gets at bv needs (after vat) approx 200 fans' worth of admission money (with prog bought)... Â bv get, and have got for probably the past five or so years, an average gate of between 800 - 1000 tops.. Â this attendance is made up, as many are now across the country, by the 'die hards'.. Â therefore there is no way if zagar left then bv would lose 200 fans from their current attendance level, and no way his inclusion has put 200 on the gate to make his salary self financing.... Â I would also suggest most teams with an 'out and out No1' could also lose that salary of their payroll without unduly damaging the crowd levels.... Â long gone are the days of 'top riders' putting an extra 500-1000 or so on the gate therefore you do have to question their value for money at current salary levels... Edited August 12, 2014 by mikebv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickthemuppet Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 Before we had live television of Speedway matches on TV people went to the tracks to see the top riders.The top riders were much more well known and put bums on seats as you could only see these top riders once or twice a year. Now with so many live matches they hardly create any excitement as we can see them every other week. . Get all live meetings off TV and the gates will certainly go up at the tracks. Ever since live Speedway meetings the gates have gone down at the tracks. When Speedway was booming we had about 6 World Of Sport recordings a season and none live. Unbelievably tonight we have two live matches on different channels. No wonder people do not go anymore. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatface Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 Thirty years ago speedway's top riders had two bikes and a mechanic and raced front of healthy crowds in some pretty decent stadiums. Â Now the top riders have 5 or 6 bikes, a team of mechanics and tuners and race in front of a fraction of the crowds in pretty shabby stadiums. Â It doesn't take a genius to work out where the money is flooding, why supporters are bemoaning lack of value and shoddy facilities. Â To suggest that the answer is to import more high quality riders at a higher cost when there is no evidence it would drive up crowds is lunacy. Â You only need to take one look around a speedway crowd to see what sort of market we are looking at. It's pretty much a working class crowd with not a great deal of disposable income. We need to provide an entertaining, competitive product at a good value price. Â If I were to pick a business model that speedway should model itself on it would be Sports Direct. They provide decent quality at a reasonable price, that's why they are always rammed. Saying Elite League speedway should spend more on higher quality riders is like saying Sports Direct should start stocking Gucci shoes. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribbler Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 Many riders did their own work on their bikes in the late 1960s-early 1970s - and a friend in the pits who helped out for free. My husband used to be in the pits at Poole with Gordon Guasco. His wife and I used to watch meetings from the car at home meetings. Not sure if he had one or two bikes in the trailer that hooked onto the back of his car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 (edited) Before we had live television of Speedway matches on TV people went to the tracks to see the top riders.The top riders were much more well known and put bums on seats as you could only see these top riders once or twice a year. Now with so many live matches they hardly create any excitement as we can see them every other week. . Get all live meetings off TV and the gates will certainly go up at the tracks. Ever since live Speedway meetings the gates have gone down at the tracks. When Speedway was booming we had about 6 World Of Sport recordings a season and none live. Unbelievably tonight we have two live matches on different channels. No wonder people do not go anymore. Sorry but were crowds going up between 1980 and 1996 before the tv matches ? Edited August 12, 2014 by orion 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 IF the top level Riders stay in the Elite League then the League will Price itself out of existence eventually. Â Riders are taking far too much from the 'pot' these days For me they deserve every penny they get - but - the Leagues - all Leagues orion, cannot afford to pay out what they have not got. Too many appear to be doing so at present - there is only one end to that sadly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midland Red Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 Before we had live television of Speedway matches on TV people went to the tracks to see the top riders.The top riders were much more well known and put bums on seats as you could only see these top riders once or twice a year. Now with so many live matches they hardly create any excitement as we can see them every other week. . Get all live meetings off TV and the gates will certainly go up at the tracks. Ever since live Speedway meetings the gates have gone down at the tracks. When Speedway was booming we had about 6 World Of Sport recordings a season and none live. Unbelievably tonight we have two live matches on different channels. No wonder people do not go anymore. Â That's exactly what I've been banging on about for ages - well in, mick, spot on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAMMER57 Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 IF the top level Riders stay in the Elite League then the League will Price itself out of existence eventually. Â Riders are taking far too much from the 'pot' these days For me they deserve every penny they get - but - the Leagues - all Leagues orion, cannot afford to pay out what they have not got. Too many appear to be doing so at present - there is only one end to that sadly. I said in another forum.A couple of years ago a good friend within in the speedway world said Top teams can,t afford to carry on like this and it will end up being a semipro/am sport. I think he may well be right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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