screm Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 So it now really boils down to who's luckiest with the rain Certainly as far as this season is concerned yes, though if we had started the season with PL fixtures we might've been that bit further down the PL fixture list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topaz325 Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 Has been said many times season too long, make it April to September, cannot really see Workington making it to the Play offs, too many meetings to fit in and some very tough matches as well!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smod Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 Any promotion voting to scrap the play-offs would be a turkey voting for Christmas. Go back to 2011 (the year without play-offs) and see Glasgow winning the title by fifteen points from Sheffield and Ipswich. The contest was over by early August, and no club, not even Glasgow (who were financially-crippled by big scores but after the title was won, sharply-decreasing income) could advertise the final third of their fixture list as other than totally meaningless. With the effect that no-one, not even Glasgow, gained any financial reward from their meetings in August, September and (if they were still running) October of 2011. This year, in mid-August, there are three clubs going hammer-and-tongs to finish in the top two (and dictate their play-off opposition) while another seven clubs have very real prospects of going to the same money-making play-offs, making their remaining matches attractive to spectators and therefore more likely to pull in the vital extra 100 or so customers each time they run. In short, ten out of thirteen member-clubs still have "something to sell" that might be attractive to customers. In these depressed financial times of alternative spectator attractions, the most important thing for your speedway club is to avoid losing disatrous amounts of money running meaningless meetings. We all have to understand, it isn't -- it cannot be -- about having the best team of thirteen being declared winners over a simple league campaign, or the Corinthian ethic of sport for sport's sake. It is giving members of the league their best chance of keeping their season 'alive' by making their season as meaningful as possible for as long as possible. Not just sport. Not just entertainment. Business. To quote Bill Clinton's successful campaign: "It's the economy, stupid" 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScotsman Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 But running the cup competitions after the league programme can keep the interest going longer, especially for those out of contention in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crescent girl Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 But running the cup competitions after the league programme can keep the interest going longer, especially for those out of contention in the league. Not really, with diminishing return from a knock-out cup -- after the first round, you've lost 50% of the competitors. As the poster above says, currently there are still ten out of thirteen clubs involved in the play-off chase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 So it now really boils down to who's luckiest with the rain Hooray!!! That sums it up EXACTLY. As I said earlier - PATHETIC!!! They won't change it - but that doesn't make it RIGHT. Who cares about that though? Any promotion voting to scrap the play-offs would be a turkey voting for Christmas. Go back to 2011 (the year without play-offs) and see Glasgow winning the title by fifteen points from Sheffield and Ipswich. The contest was over by early August, and no club, not even Glasgow (who were financially-crippled by big scores but after the title was won, sharply-decreasing income) could advertise the final third of their fixture list as other than totally meaningless. With the effect that no-one, not even Glasgow, gained any financial reward from their meetings in August, September and (if they were still running) October of 2011. This year, in mid-August, there are three clubs going hammer-and-tongs to finish in the top two (and dictate their play-off opposition) while another seven clubs have very real prospects of going to the same money-making play-offs, making their remaining matches attractive to spectators and therefore more likely to pull in the vital extra 100 or so customers each time they run. In short, ten out of thirteen member-clubs still have "something to sell" that might be attractive to customers. In these depressed financial times of alternative spectator attractions, the most important thing for your speedway club is to avoid losing disatrous amounts of money running meaningless meetings. We all have to understand, it isn't -- it cannot be -- about having the best team of thirteen being declared winners over a simple league campaign, or the Corinthian ethic of sport for sport's sake. It is giving members of the league their best chance of keeping their season 'alive' by making their season as meaningful as possible for as long as possible. Not just sport. Not just entertainment. Business. To quote Bill Clinton's successful campaign: "It's the economy, stupid" WHY NOT? Speedway labels itself as a SPORT. The Season's performance should be the Gold Riband for the League Competitons. League Champions should NOT be cheated out of their rightful Title. The whole thing makes us look stupid. I don't care how many other Sports do it either. IT DOESN'T MAKE IT RIGHT!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruffdiamond Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 Hooray!!! That sums it up EXACTLY. As I said earlier - PATHETIC!!! They won't change it - but that doesn't make it RIGHT. Who cares about that though? WHY NOT? Speedway labels itself as a SPORT. The Season's performance should be the Gold Riband for the League Competitons. League Champions should NOT be cheated out of their rightful Title. The whole thing makes us look stupid. I don't care how many other Sports do it either. IT DOESN'T MAKE IT RIGHT!!! does'nt make it WRONG either,,, ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScotsman Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 But the League cup is run in groups so teams are not out after the first match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevePark Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 Hooray!!! That sums it up EXACTLY. As I said earlier - PATHETIC!!! They won't change it - but that doesn't make it RIGHT. Who cares about that though? WHY NOT? Speedway labels itself as a SPORT. The Season's performance should be the Gold Riband for the League Competitons. League Champions should NOT be cheated out of their rightful Title. The whole thing makes us look stupid. I don't care how many other Sports do it either. IT DOESN'T MAKE IT RIGHT!!! The alternative is to see more teams go the wall. You want that do you? No, of course you don't, but no play-off = more teams possibly going out of business. To me, there's no choice between the two, whether you like it or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lucan Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 Has been said many times season too long, make it April to September, cannot really see Workington making it to the Play offs, too many meetings to fit in and some very tough matches as well!! Just as an aside then, back in the seventies during the time of the old BL2, NL and NNL format, how did they ever manage to complete their season's when there was up to 24 teams in "one" league? Might have exagerrated that a smidgen but there definitely were a lot more teams about then than there are now!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 The alternative is to see more teams go the wall. You want that do you? No, of course you don't, but no play-off = more teams possibly going out of business. To me, there's no choice between the two, whether you like it or not. Out of interest Steve - IF the 'Diamonds' are not in the 'Play Offs' - how much Revenue comes to Newcastle from the said 'Play Offs'? Genuine question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lucan Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 (edited) Play-offs seem to be the thing nowadays, though I`m not in favour of them for the PL, for the reasons you give, plus I cant get my head round a team finishing sixth can become Champions. Yes they are the rules everyone plays under but for me the Champions are the one with the most points at the end of the season, maybe we should go straight into PL racing at the start of the season and have the lesser competitions at the end. Quite agree with that Screm, and as yourself and Super Blue allude to, just manipulate the fixture list to give the main competition every possible chance of a completion? Edited August 16, 2014 by Lord Lucan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevePark Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 Out of interest Steve - IF the 'Diamonds' are not in the 'Play Offs' - how much Revenue comes to Newcastle from the said 'Play Offs'? Genuine question. I don't suppose Newcastle will get anything from the Play-offs if they don't make them(although I don't know for sure). Which is why there is the 'mad scramble' to get into them. Just to make it quite clear, I am against the Play-offs to determine who become League Champions. If they want to make an end of season competition worth winning, they should go back to the Young Shield (or whatever they want to call it). I also think they should scrap the League Cup, have one challenge meeting to kick the season off, then go straight into PL fixtures and keep the KOC. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 Just as an aside then, back in the seventies during the time of the old BL2, NL and NNL format, how did they ever manage to complete their season's when there was up to 24 teams in "one" league? Might have exagerrated that a smidgen but there definitely were a lot more teams about then than there are now!! oh dont get me started!...but yes, golden days, proper teams, crowds, better individual leathers, john berry, yellow/black helmet, better programmes, world of sport with dave lanning.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 Out of interest Steve - IF the 'Diamonds' are not in the 'Play Offs' - how much Revenue comes to Newcastle from the said 'Play Offs'? Genuine question. Genuine answer. You will never know, because of variables like, the strength of the home team, the strength of the away team, the proximity of that team to the home team, the weather, if it's a dead rubber, if it is televised etc. What is known, and is generally accepted, is that the build up to the ties will create interest, and more than likely deliver an above average attendance. It is the chance to end the season on a high with a profit being made, to offset against losses such as made during another season badly affected by the weather. Like the last throw of the dice, hoping to make a bit. If your not in it, you can't win it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
van wolfswinkel Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 (edited) Edinburgh Berwick Somerset Scunthorpe Ipswich Peterboro or hopefully Worky if they can complete their fixtures Edited August 16, 2014 by keef van cross Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lucan Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 oh dont get me started!...but yes, golden days, proper teams, crowds, better individual leathers, john berry, yellow/black helmet, better programmes, world of sport with dave lanning.... And of course the staple attire of the bad weather rider.... the all in one boiler suit!! Kneckerchief's, (type of scarf for all you young un's) dont see many of those flapping in the breeze thesedays!! Always remember the old Comets favourite Mal Mackay used to ride round with a football top on, never knew why tho? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 (edited) And of course the staple attire of the bad weather rider.... the all in one boiler suit!! Kneckerchief's, (type of scarf for all you young un's) dont see many of those flapping in the breeze thesedays!! Always remember the old Comets favourite Mal Mackay used to ride round with a football top on, never knew why tho? Kept his leathers clean so they didn't have to wash them. Mike Watkin, Mauger, Goog Allan, Peter Kelly, Bill Andrew, Ken Sharples, all used to wear them mid sixties for the same reason. They were the 60's team suits. Kneckerchiefs went out of fashion when Neil Collins finally retired. Shame. Edited August 16, 2014 by Tsunami 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lucan Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 Kept his leathers clean so they didn't have to wash them. Mike Watkin, Mauger, Goog Allan, Peter Kelly, Bill Andrew, Ken Sharples, all used to wear them mid sixties for the same reason. They were the 60's team suits. Kneckerchiefs went out of fashion when Neil Collins finally retired. Shame. Youv'e got me there my friend I'm 1970 onwards, remember the first two names well the other's not hugely familiar!! Quite right about Neil Collins, should have got that one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 (edited) I don't suppose Newcastle will get anything from the Play-offs if they don't make them(although I don't know for sure). Which is why there is the 'mad scramble' to get into them. Just to make it quite clear, I am against the Play-offs to determine who become League Champions. If they want to make an end of season competition worth winning, they should go back to the Young Shield (or whatever they want to call it). I also think they should scrap the League Cup, have one challenge meeting to kick the season off, then go straight into PL fixtures and keep the KOC. Then we are more or less in agreement. The League Championship should be just that. The top six could then ride in a 'Play Off' Competition to decide who is the 'Play Off' Champions. I WOULD HAVE NO PROBLEM WHATSOEVER WITH THAT!!! All fair and above board. The 'Play Off' Competition with the Top Six Teams would be a real money spinner without, on occasions, robbing the true League Champions of their Title. Edited August 17, 2014 by The White Knight 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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