BWitcher Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 Having just watched a re-run of the incident, I have to say I have some sympathy with the referee. The 'incident' happened coming off bend 4 into the finish straight (at the end of lap 3) where the fencing is covered by banners etc. It could be that Jim Lawrence just couldn't clearly see the incident fully and had to wait til the race ended before looking at all the replays and angles - as the TV audience does. You could see from the replays that Nilsson rode from mid-track right to the fence and taking Krcmar with him. In the 'live' running, Lawrence would only have seen Nilsson coming off bend 4 towards the fence and Krcmar and his handle bars/ front wheel lift above the level of the fence banner?! Maybe there needs to be a ban on fence banners on the home straight fencing if it impedes the ref's view!!!? Krcmar gesticulating to the ref at the end (and the handbags referred to) prompted the review! Good call I feel. Another one conveniently ignoring that the same move was pulled by Krcmar a lap earlier, the only reason why Nilsson didn't bounce of the fence was he had a brain and throttled off, pulling his leg back out of the way. If anyone is advocating NIlsson should have been excluded, then Krcmar should have been excluded prior. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavan Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 Another one conveniently ignoring that the same move was pulled by Krcmar a lap earlier, the only reason why Nilsson didn't bounce of the fence was he had a brain and throttled off, pulling his leg back out of the way. If anyone is advocating NIlsson should have been excluded, then Krcmar should have been excluded prior. spot on. people need to realise that the rider behind can be at fault as well. Look at Darcy and Greg in heat 20. If Dacry had of tried what the czech lad did he would have been in the fence. The difference is Darcy was controlling the throttle a lot better I hate this line. No you can't. Thats rubbish. If a rider dives under another rider going into a bed and with his back wheel wipes out the other guys front wheel you have just said that is acceptable as he was clearly in front for his back wheel to be hitting the other guys front wheel. If you can't perform a move without making contact with another rider, you in the wrong. different scenarios there and you know it. Look at Pedersen on Zagar in the gp just wiped him out and of course rightly excluded. What about a track, bit like last night , where the racing line is a foot from the fence? You saying a rider shouldnt ride close to the fence in case the rider behind wants to come round him? No he blocks him. Nilsson moved wide there was contact obviously but the lad behind should have seen him coming and either shut off or changed line. The person in front is allowed to ride where they want. Listen to riders when they moan at the ref sometimes they use it all the time. You can perform a move with contact as well. jeez ive been watching the sport for 30 years and now you dont want contact lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 different scenarios there and you know it. Look at Pedersen on Zagar in the gp just wiped him out and of course rightly excluded. No, you picked a difference senario to prove you point. Pedersen was always behind. What you have said is if your back wheel is inline with there front wheel just wipe them out. As you're in front you're allowed to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 I'm just pleased the result last night, didn't hinge on the referee decision. Very difficult to have a hard and fast rule on this as every instance is different.. I can see both angles from last night and both decisions have issues that warrant consideration I've always tried to relate to all instances, looking at them with the angle of common sense. Who created the problem, Who gained from the situation, Who could have stopped it happening. All these angles should have a bearing on the outcome and obviously, we mustn't forget all this happens when in a racing but fair environment. Sometimes a Ref is in a no win situation and either way he decides, he will be wrong. Last night was one of those instances. We had two riders giving their all. both had made hard moves on each other in their quest for points. I don't believe either rider had any intention of causing the other harm and therefore in this instance I thought the Ref should have let the result stand.. Trying to compare that to the situation at the EESG when Nicky Pedersen T-boned Kenneth Bjerre. are worlds apart. That day Pedersen raced across the corner with the sole purpose of taking Kenneth out. Tatum and Pearson couldn't believe it. Everybody who saw it, was of the same conclusion, all except the Ref. It is instances like that which gives Referees a bad name.... Fortunately, there are plenty of decent ones..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 Thought Nilsson was unlucky to get excluded ,there were plenty hard moves in last nights meeting,experienced riders read them most of the time,the Czech tried to keep it wound on in a no win situation IMO.Some good racing last night the Final should be a cracker if they don't make the track to slick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedwaysliders Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 be honest people!!<Westher it was foul riding or not,how many fans would even think about looking at tinkering with the result after that heat,when there was still much riding on the event to be had? It didnt even cross my mind in the race that anything would be looked at.Are we now going to get a new verdict after every tough heat,come on folks,i cant remember when this last happened and ,1 man has just ruined the event over one heat when you see tough riding week in week out. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star Fever Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 be honest people!!<Westher it was foul riding or not,how many fans would even think about looking at tinkering with the result after that heat,when there was still much riding on the event to be had? It didnt even cross my mind in the race that anything would be looked at.Are we now going to get a new verdict after every tough heat,come on folks,i cant remember when this last happened and ,1 man has just ruined the event over one heat when you see tough riding week in week out. Nope he didn't ruin the event - Australia were on fire in the last 8 heats and Sweden were struggling - the loss of 2pts made no difference whatsoever to the outcome. Another one conveniently ignoring that the same move was pulled by Krcmar a lap earlier, the only reason why Nilsson didn't bounce of the fence was he had a brain and throttled off, pulling his leg back out of the way. If anyone is advocating NIlsson should have been excluded, then Krcmar should have been excluded prior. Nope Krcmar did not do the same move -Nilsson was behind him and Krcmar simply rode defensely across his path. However Nilsson was next to Krcmar and intentionally rode him wide and kept on riding him wide into the home straight fence, thus was riding aggressively. As for throttling off its somewhat easier to do it on the straight (Nilsson) as opposed to sliding round a bend. We all know surely that if you throttle off on a bend the bike straightens up and you in fact accelerate? So Krcmar was indeed using his brain so as not to possibly cause a worse accident. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreverblue Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 spot on. people need to realise that the rider behind can be at fault as well. Look at Darcy and Greg in heat 20. If Dacry had of tried what the czech lad did he would have been in the fence. The difference is Darcy was controlling the throttle a lot better different scenarios there and you know it. Look at Pedersen on Zagar in the gp just wiped him out and of course rightly excluded. What about a track, bit like last night , where the racing line is a foot from the fence? You saying a rider shouldnt ride close to the fence in case the rider behind wants to come round him? No he blocks him. Nilsson moved wide there was contact obviously but the lad behind should have seen him coming and either shut off or changed line. The person in front is allowed to ride where they want. Listen to riders when they moan at the ref sometimes they use it all the time. You can perform a move with contact as well. jeez ive been watching the sport for 30 years and now you dont want contact lol Darcy gave it a go for a couple of laps but he wasn't ever going to be reckless when the meeting was already over but had he got the speed to get level with Greg, Greg would have given him room. Pedersen wiped Zagar out and rightly got disqualified, it is not accidental with Nicki and he should have been banned from the next gp and its a shame his dirty riding continues to largely go unpunished. Nilsson didn't wipe him out and i thought it was a 50-50 call and Nilsson was unlucky to get the decision go against him, it didn't change the result but it did destroy the meeting as a contest and obviously left the swedes feeling deflated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepturningleft Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 Nothing new about low crowd at these events. Even back in the boom time-ish 80's, White City was empty one year when the home nation were not in action in a world cup qualifier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OveFundinFan Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 Just watched the meeting from start to finish. What a good race track Bydgosh (spelling?) is. How disappointing a cracking meeting could not attract a good crowd though. Hats off to Greg, 6 races, 6 wins, pretty good stuff, and even more so at 44 years old. Other riders would give an arm and a leg to be able to gate like him, but he came from the back in the race he was led. Definitely a legend in his own lifetime IMO As for THE incident between Nilsson and Krchmar, that was a tough decision on Sweden I think. Looking at the slow motions, you can see Krchmar saw Nilsson on his inside and had plenty time to shut off and avoid a self made disaster IMO. He is young and showed his inexperience but hey! Krchmar, Bentzen and Millak have good careers in the making and I look forward to seeing them for many years to come at the top level. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 Darcy gave it a go for a couple of laps but he wasn't ever going to be reckless when the meeting was already over but had he got the speed to get level with Greg, Greg would have given him room. Pedersen wiped Zagar out and rightly got disqualified, it is not accidental with Nicki and he should have been banned from the next gp and its a shame his dirty riding continues to largely go unpunished. Nilsson didn't wipe him out and i thought it was a 50-50 call and Nilsson was unlucky to get the decision go against him, it didn't change the result but it did destroy the meeting as a contest and obviously left the swedes feeling deflated. DARCY says he tried everything for four laps to pass Greg but the old master simply out-thought him all the way round. Masterclass from the maestro. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markyb Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 (edited) Just watched the meeting from start to finish. What a good race track Bydgosh (spelling?) is. How disappointing a cracking meeting could not attract a good crowd though. Hats off to Greg, 6 races, 6 wins, pretty good stuff, and even more so at 44 years old. Other riders would give an arm and a leg to be able to gate like him, but he came from the back in the race he was led. Definitely a legend in his own lifetime IMO As for THE incident between Nilsson and Krchmar, that was a tough decision on Sweden I think. Looking at the slow motions, you can see Krchmar saw Nilsson on his inside and had plenty time to shut off and avoid a self made disaster IMO. He is young and showed his inexperience but hey! Krchmar, Bentzen and Millak have good careers in the making and I look forward to seeing them for many years to come at the top level. Sat down at 5.45 and had no intention of watching anything more than the first 4 heats. Almost 3 hours later got up from my seat. A tremendous speedway meeting - made even better with the likes of Rosco and Scott, plus the presenter on eurosport with some great no holds barred comments. Reckon Pearson and Tatum were on something dodgy too, like a comedy duo in their commentary. The only sour point was the decision of Mr Laurence. Took the edge of the meeting, although with the number of race wins, Sweden didn't deserve to go through. (How they missed the likes of Lindgren and Lindback though - SVEMO, well done ha ha ) If the final is half as good, then will be a fantastic evening. Too close to call 100%, but concerned for the Danes with Korneliussen as that is the rumour. Reckon. Poland 1st, followed by Australia, then Denmark followed by England (whoops sorry, Great Britain) Happy days ! Edited August 1, 2014 by markyb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreverblue Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 DARCY says he tried everything for four laps to pass Greg but the old master simply out-thought him all the way round. Masterclass from the maestro. No dont believe that it was obvious he didnt try as hard later in the race when he realised there was no way past the old fox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted August 2, 2014 Report Share Posted August 2, 2014 No dont believe that it was obvious he didnt try as hard later in the race when he realised there was no way past the old fox I believe Philip Rising comment in preference to yours. From where I was watching, Darcy tried which ever way but made little difference on Hancock . Herbie's speed and placement of bike was always too much for Darcy, who didn't give up trying until the last corner. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavan Posted August 2, 2014 Report Share Posted August 2, 2014 Darcy gave it a go for a couple of laps but he wasn't ever going to be reckless when the meeting was already over but had he got the speed to get level with Greg, Greg would have given him room. Pedersen wiped Zagar out and rightly got disqualified, it is not accidental with Nicki and he should have been banned from the next gp and its a shame his dirty riding continues to largely go unpunished. Nilsson didn't wipe him out and i thought it was a 50-50 call and Nilsson was unlucky to get the decision go against him, it didn't change the result but it did destroy the meeting as a contest and obviously left the swedes feeling deflated. wrong! do you not listen to riders interviews or read twitter. Darcy gave it a go for all 4 laps and admitted himself he was outrode Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreverblue Posted August 2, 2014 Report Share Posted August 2, 2014 wrong! do you not listen to riders interviews or read twitter. Darcy gave it a go for all 4 laps and admitted himself he was outrode Yeah right oh didn't you see the race, he is always going to say he gave it a go for four laps isn't he. Hancock is unpassable in those situations, Tai couldn't do it in Cardiff and he was much quicker than Hancock that night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted August 2, 2014 Report Share Posted August 2, 2014 BUT Bydgoszcz is no Cardiff ... several racing lines, riders will tell you how hard it is too defend a lead because you can never be quite sure where the attack will come from. Darcy gave it his all, admitted as much, and Greg intriguingly said he could see Ward's shadow at times and used all his guile to win the race. As KT said in commentary, you would like to think other riders there took note of Greg, aged 44, fit as a fiddle, as fresh as a daisy and in the eyes of many actually riding better now than at any stage of his long and illustrious career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tellboy Posted August 2, 2014 Report Share Posted August 2, 2014 No dont believe that it was obvious he didnt try as hard later in the race when he realised there was no way past the old fox Take those glasses off.I thought SS had left the forum.I use to value your post's as being unbiased but lately their becoming quite the opposite. Darcy got beat,even after trying for four full laps but to no avail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OveFundinFan Posted August 2, 2014 Report Share Posted August 2, 2014 Thats what makes Greg so good. He seems to expend little energy as possible to get the most points. Spectacular? Maybe not but h gets the points - 40 of them in two world cup rounds, and 3 of the weaker riders were on his team so he didnt score easy points beating them. (apologies to Gregs 3 team mates - they did a great job) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted August 2, 2014 Report Share Posted August 2, 2014 Thats what makes Greg so good. He seems to expend little energy as possible to get the most points. Spectacular? Maybe not but h gets the points - 40 of them in two world cup rounds, and 3 of the weaker riders were on his team so he didnt score easy points beating them. (apologies to Gregs 3 team mates - they did a great job) Chatting with my dad yesterday I said the same. I find Greg quite boring but if I was a young lad starting out, I'd be going down the Hancock route rather than the Ward/Gollob/Loram route. Seems to be far less effort and a lot less risky. So while I find Greg quite dull I have a huge amount of admiration for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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