Rules Question On Injuries And Replacements

[Lioness]

Genuine rules question here and although I am using two examples I am not saying I think the decisions are right or wrong. i just have this weird idea that there are rules which cover it and it would be nice to know what they are!

Last week I was at a meeting where a visiting rider pulled out of the meeting with an existing injury, the comment being made that he had come and tried but just wasnt fit. His team were allowed to replace him in his remaining rides. Today I was at another meeting where a home rider pulled out with an existing injury and his team werent allowed replacements in his remaining rides.

My question is, what EXACTLY are the rules for this situation? Is it

1. At the referee's discretion?
2. Set in stone in which case one referee called it wrong
OR
3. Decided by the team managers agreeing a replacement will/will not be allowed?

Maybe I should ask 4. Why the hell do I expect there to be clear rules in speedway but it IS a genuine question. Im curious as to why the two situations were dealt with differently and what the difference was. Does it depend on if it is a home team or visitors?

Thanks

[Halifaxtiger]

I think its this:

 

18.15.2 If a Rider (except those riding as per SR 18.10 (g)) is prevented as a result of an injury sustained in that Meeting (as confirmed by the CMO), the minimum ride rule will not apply.

That means if the injury was sustained in another meeting the minimum ride rule does apply.

 

[Fromafar]

it is a strange one,you would have thought that anyone out with injury would have be pass a doctors examination before returning ,however if he passes and returns he has too take 3 rides as per the rules therefore the team concerned would only have 1rider in the rides that need to be covered.There seems to be confusion about this situation but it is Speedway so it's not straightforward as they are made up the rules as they go along.

[Lioness]

I think its this:

 

18.15.2 If a Rider (except those riding as per SR 18.10 (g)) is prevented as a result of an injury sustained in that Meeting (as confirmed by the CMO), the minimum ride rule will not apply.

That means if the injury was sustained in another meeting the minimum ride rule does apply.

 

 

You were at the meeting too HT and never noticed

 

Mike Hunter has kindly confirmed for me on facebook that in fact the first occurence where a replacement was allowed is in fact wrong and that the rider should NOT have been replaced but one rider only until three of his initial rides were taken.

 

Ive seen both scenarios happen on a few occassions which for me just highlights even more that perhaps making sure referees know basic rules should be high on the agenda for this years referees meeting!

it is a strange one,you would have thought that anyone out with injury would have be pass a doctors examination before returning ,however if he passes and returns he has too take 3 rides as per the rules therefore the team concerned would only have 1rider in the rides that need to be covered.There seems to be confusion about this situation but it is Speedway so it's not straightforward as they are made up the rules as they go along.

 

I was shocked to find out that a rider was only signed off for 7 days for concussion. I am still trying to figure out why Stoke's James McBain was signed off for an automatic 28 days when he suffered concussion and yet in the PL riders can come back after 7 days. I think I've used the wooden spoon enough tonight already though!

[Triple.H.]

So in reality if you are carrying an injury which you aggravate from a previous meeting which means you need to withdraw from the current meeting you quite simply claim to have a different injury etc. It ain't rocket science didn't it in life of Tai which I haven't seen yet say Tai told track Dr's his wrist was hurting not his collarbone.

IMO if you suffer a concussion you should be banned from competing in any sport not just speedway for at least a week concussion is a very strange thing. In fact if you get concussed you should maybe be banned from driving and working for a week

[Lioness]

Triple H - remember its speedway riders....

 

Having had concussion in March I agree with you - I was stopped curling for 14 days ffs (correctly). Bizarrely though when I was released from hospital I asked the doctor how long I should refrain from driving for and was told I could drive home if I wanted (I didnt, I knew I wasnt fit to but it makes you wonder).

 

In a high adrenaline high impact split second decision making sport like speedway I would say 14 days easily. the problem yo uthen have though is that its riders livlihood and there may be attempts to get round that

[tonyk]

I may be way out of touch but can remember the days when teams had a number 8 that they could drop in to cover for injuries or underperforming riders. Has this been dropped? Was a good idea IMO.

[ColinMills]

no8s were only in play when there were r/r facility i believe?

[Fromafar]

Yes,and can only replaced missing rider.

[The White Knight]

it is a strange one,you would have thought that anyone out with injury would have be pass a doctors examination before returning ,however if he passes and returns he has too take 3 rides as per the rules therefore the team concerned would only have 1rider in the rides that need to be covered.There seems to be confusion about this situation but it is Speedway so it's not straightforward as they are made up the rules as they go along.

How DO they expect us Punters to understand the Rules when, it seems clear to me, that on occasions the Officials don't either?

 

Is this not just an indication that, confusion about the Rules and Regulations are, at least, part of the reason for Speedway's continuing drop in popularity?

 

THAT and some of the more stupid Rules as well of course.

[oldtimer]

Even more strange is if a rider is riding in another country and consequently misses a match for his British club, he is not classed as withholding his services and his home club can only use a National League rider to replace him. A rule obviously designed to bring the crowds back to speedway.

[ColinMills]

wonder where in the rules and reg, it states u21 final can be won on a toss of a coin if its tied and raining? yep, only in speedway!

[Triple.H.]

They're saying on Sky about Lanham pulling out of the meeting and being replaced by reserves due to injury picked up at Glasgow so how come Henry couldn't be replaced as suffering from an injury in a different meeting.

 

Whoops just realised LL has had 3 rides now so maybe can be replaced ?????

Edited July 28, 2014 by Triple.H.

[waiheke1]

wonder where in the rules and reg, it states u21 final can be won on a toss of a coin if its tied and raining? yep, only in speedway!

Tbf, toss of a coin has been in the rules for football world cups as a method of determining who progresses from group stages in event of tie on points and goal difference.

The 68 euro football champs had a coin toss to determine the winner of the semi final.

[Blackadder]

I was shocked to find out that a rider was only signed off for 7 days for concussion. I am still trying to figure out why Stoke's James McBain was signed off for an automatic 28 days when he suffered concussion and yet in the PL riders can come back after 7 days. I think I've used the wooden spoon enough tonight already though!

I believe that there are different grades of concussion and that the doctor can specify when or if a re-examination is required before the rider can ride again.

[Halifaxtiger]

How DO they expect us Punters to understand the Rules when, it seems clear to me, that on occasions the Officials don't either?

 

Is this not just an indication that, confusion about the Rules and Regulations are, at least, part of the reason for Speedway's continuing drop in popularity?

 

THAT and some of the more stupid Rules as well of course.

 

I'd say that rule is pretty clear (no-one has argued with me, anyway) and given that I found it within 10 minutes of Lioness' post pretty accessible too.

 

If someone has got that wrong its not confusion, its incompetence.

[The White Knight]

 

I'd say that rule is pretty clear (no-one has argued with me, anyway) and given that I found it within 10 minutes of Lioness' post pretty accessible too.

 

If someone has got that wrong its not confusion, its incompetence.

You are right HT - BUT - surely the Officials should know what the Rules are. If they are incompetent they should be sacked.

 

You also do not need, as a Spectator of a Sport to be constantly checking the Rule Book. You want to go and enjoy yourself - you do NOT want to be consulting a Rule/ Regulation Book.

 

PS: That's TEN MINUTES of your life you'll never get back.

[StevePark]

 

 

I was shocked to find out that a rider was only signed off for 7 days for concussion. I am still trying to figure out why Stoke's James McBain was signed off for an automatic 28 days when he suffered concussion and yet in the PL riders can come back after 7 days. I think I've used the wooden spoon enough tonight already though!

 

Christian Henry has been 'stood down' (to use a horse racing term) for a minimum of 28 days, so, I'm guessing, it depends on the severity of the concussion?

 

 

Even more strange is if a rider is riding in another country and consequently misses a match for his British club, he is not classed as withholding his services and his home club can only use a National League rider to replace him. A rule obviously designed to bring the crowds back to speedway.

 

I think that rule is to try and encourage teams to pick Brits ahead of foreigners. If you are a Brit riding in an FIM event a facility has always been allowed.

Edited August 1, 2014 by Steve Park