Tai Woffinden's Views On Single Night Racing In Uk

[BWitcher]

 

Bwitcher, this is a discussion forum and calling people stick in the muds because they happen to not agree with you does not advance the course of sensible discussion. If you wan to advance e a particular point of view then other forum are members are entitled to scrutinise it and play Devils advocate. That doesn't make them stick in the muds.

 

Speedway is beset with all kinds of problems and unless many of these are corrected then there is no evidence that changing to a single race night will make a scrap of difference.

 

To illustrate: I know two people who now take virtually no interest in the sport and the reason they give is that they are sick of the T/R rule. I doubt that is the only reason but to them the rule is what stands out in their minds in keeping them away. I have heard of other fans who say the same thing and some have posted on here and said so. It doesn't bother you because you happen to like the rule but changing the race night is not going to win those fans back . I am not talking about those fans in particular but merely illustrate the point that many fans are really fed up with similar things relating to the rules and especially the inconsistent application of them.

 

As another example there is another thread currently running about rolling at the starts which is an irritation to many fans. I was at a meeting recently where I heard that the Clerk of the Course actually pointed out to the referee that a particular rider was constantly rolling. The ref's answer was " Oh he's not rolling very much". No, not much , just enough to get a flyer and give the paying public a FTG win instead of a proper race. What's the point of having rules if referee's don't enforce them ? They are not going to suddenly enforce them because everyone races on the same night.

 

How many posts have there been on this forum even within the last few weeks where referees have made shocking decisions, sometimes calling all 4 back when someone goes down on their own and at other times doing the exact opposite and excluding a rider who was clearly knocked off by another when it should be all 4 back ?. You have even posted on some of these incidents yourself . None of that will suddenly change simply by everyone racing the same night. On the other hand if the rules were followed and followed consistently it is quite possible a lot of fans will be tempted back what ever night of the week.

 

Similarly meetings that drag on for ages on one night are not going to suddenly run to time another night.

 

So IMO as a potential stick in the mud I am not convinced that anyone will be tempted back by a single race night unless the basics are sorted out first. Changing the race night before getting the rest of it sorted is putting the cart before the horse IMO.

 

I've not at any stage ever said simply changing to 1 night a week racing will solve the problems.

 

I've always stated quite clearly that the product has to be overhauled and changes made. What I object to is the same old tired clichéd arguments put forward at the mere suggestion of change. You yourself have highlighted, change is needed and lots of it.

 

Speedway in this country is stuck in the mud, and the many of the fans who still attend are stuck in the mud too, I make no apologies for using that term as its the reality. Sometimes reality hurts. As I said before, I'm one of the stick in the muds too but I realise things have got to change.

Edited July 22, 2014 by BWitcher

[RPNY]

 

 

A good point spoiled by a bad example. Adam Skornicki is one of the best value foreign riders of the last 20 years. A cult hero at Monmore, he's popular just about everywhere he's raced and has been a great servant of British speedway.

 

Apologies, but I just meant 5 to 6 point foreigners!

[Midland Red]

 

I've not at any stage ever said simply changing to 1 night a week racing will solve the problems.

 

I've always stated quite clearly that the product has to be overhauled and changes made. What I object to is the same old tired clichéd arguments put forward at the mere suggestion of change. You yourself have highlighted, change is needed and lots of it.

 

Speedway in this country is stuck in the mud, and the many of the fans who still attend are stuck in the mud too, I make no apologies for using that term as its the reality. Sometimes reality hurts. As I said before, I'm one of the stick in the muds too but I realise things have got to change.

 

I think E I Addio will agree with me that stating that you "object to . . . the same old tired chiched arguments" is not the best choice of words - perhaps you really mean "I disagree with . . ."

I disagree with quite a lot of what is posted on this forum, but I don't object to people having their opinions

You say you want to see change - ever thought that changing back to something which worked in the past might be the way forward?

[BWitcher]

 

I think E I Addio will agree with me that stating that you "object to . . . the same old tired chiched arguments" is not the best choice of words - perhaps you really mean "I disagree with . . ."

I disagree with quite a lot of what is posted on this forum, but I don't object to people having their opinions

You say you want to see change - ever thought that changing back to something which worked in the past might be the way forward?

 

No, because times have changed, but thanks for once again reinforcing what I have said all along.

[topaz325]

The future ....just a few amateur meetings in Britain and left to watch Swedish League and GPs on the tv.

[tsc1]

Interesting comments from both sides of the fence with Top Stars getting flak for wanting to earn money for themselves and family if they are married I Think British Speedway should change to one night a week on a two week cycle (1 home 1 away) with maybe a premier lge side or N/l side on the off week .

 

 

The ultimate non negotiable main point being if Poland/Sunday Sweden/Tuesday Denmark/Friday ( or whenever their racenight is ) have a rain off it is up to them to bite the bullet and accept British Speedway takes priority on our nominated race night ,not as happened with Eastbournes Cameron Woodward and Joonas Kylmokorpi last week .Also if the rider or riders decided to stay abroad with their other employer they would automatically be banned in all other leagues for 28 days for not upholding a binding contract. Gb promoters will only be paying big stars once a fortnight, fans will turn up if they only get a once a fortnight chance to see their favourites, and if (as Coventry/Cradley/Mildenhall etc etc ) promoters field a cheaper team on their second week it will be a success as the fans have voted with their feet /entrance money this season in the N/L where The Storm (coventry) have been riding in front of some very impressive crowds .

 

My last point is Track Curating must be improved and the shale has got to be the best ,which it has not been in the last few years ,this, although it is a major cost, if you only run top flight once a fortnight, you in theory shouldn,t use so much over the course of a season,and Curators must be paid decent money for the job .They (as far as I know ) have to be licenced by the control board and they are subject to at least one visit per year by the C/B inspector and they have their own rules and regs pages in the B.S.P.A. handbook which must be adhered to at all times .If they don,t do the job properly they can be banned .

Just a few points/ideas I have been mulling over for a few months be interested to know if you are in agreement or wish to shoot me down .

FTM which and what tracks do you think need better track prep? As you say you have got yes of doing the job and shale where would you get it? Wait with interest........

[SteveLyric2]

I think there needs to be an agreement between Promoters as to what they want league speedway to be?

 

Apart from the basic '4 blokes on 4 bikes for 4 laps', the sport has changed in many ways over the years. Is it An 'Extreme' sport/entertainment, or a 'Family sport/entertainment'? Or maybe something else.

 

Once decided they need to promote the heck out of their preferred choice. If its to be 'extreme' then make it extreme - create villains and heroes; set-up real rivalries; have some handbags and disagreements!!

 

If its to be family oriented - as in the past - then offer families some real incentives to attend; provide regular family entertainment in addition to the 15 heats; run on a family-friendly day; make sure all riders are accessible, before and after meetings etc etc

[macinter]

A single race night is very likely to be a non starter in British speedway. I think we should accept that we cannot afford the top flight riders and get on with promoting speedway at Premier league level throughout the UK. If Sittingbourne and Stoke could be persuaded to race at this level we could possibly have 3 regional leagues with eight teams in each. Play offs, which would incorporate teams which finish top of each region would then be meaningful and, apart from those play offs, clubs wouldn't have to travel the length and breadth of the country. With Peterborough hosting Newcastle in April being far and away the most entertaining speedway meeting on the box this year there is no need for the top riders to make our sport entertaining. Meetings would cost less to stage. Entrance fees could be reduced and we could have speedway on practically any night we wanted.

[ch958]

A single race night is very likely to be a non starter in British speedway. I think we should accept that we cannot afford the top flight riders and get on with promoting speedway at Premier league level throughout the UK. If Sittingbourne and Stoke could be persuaded to race at this level we could possibly have 3 regional leagues with eight teams in each. Play offs, which would incorporate teams which finish top of each region would then be meaningful and, apart from those play offs, clubs wouldn't have to travel the length and breadth of the country. With Peterborough hosting Newcastle in April being far and away the most entertaining speedway meeting on the box this year there is no need for the top riders to make our sport entertaining. Meetings would cost less to stage. Entrance fees could be reduced and we could have speedway on practically any night we wanted.

8 team divisions would give

7 home league matches? How about 23 home league matches with different teams each week

[mikebv]

Tai said, "he knows for a fact that 20 of the top riders they have had here this year are thinking about stopping because they are just too busy, there are too many meetings here."

 

If that's true then great, let them go and we can have one big, cheaper to run, Premier League.

The ten No1's in each of the ten teams roughly between them take £1 million a year out of the sport in this country, with the 'sky money' over the years basically going straight to them..

 

Combined, do they bring in £1 million a year through the turnstiles?? I would suggest no way near....

 

Years ago, PC, Mauger, Olsen, Penhall, Carter, Nielsen, Gunderson, Crump etc would definitely put 'extra bums on seats' when they visited your track, this was in the main due to you only having one chance a year to see them unless they rode for your team..

 

Nowadays on TV you can see all the top riders, via live gb league speedway, live gp's, live euro champs, live swc, live swedish league, bet 365 and loads of streaming channels for danish and polish league racing...

 

On virtually any given day of the week you can now watch the top riders compete where you used to see maybe highlights four times a year on world of sport of the 'worlds best'....

 

Familiarity has definitely bred contempt to such an extent that surely now it doesnt make any economic sense whatsoever to have such blatantly unsustainable salaries being paid over here and the time has come to part with the gp riders??

 

And given the fact that often these riders win by the proverbial mile when they gate it could be argued that without them racing may be closer too?

 

I am sure without gp riders then 'inferior riders' will try and raise their salary package as they become No1, however if the promoters have any strength of character they will use this situation to reduce costs in the league by a massive amount...

 

Most fans at the end of the day just want to see four riders in every race of similar ability levels, with all riders belonging to the two teams advertised and the meetings themselves taking place on the same consistent evening every week, maybe losing the gp 'stars' is a price worth paying to deliver this?..

 

As after all, you will still have them beamed into your front rooms from around the globe a good few nights of the week...

Edited July 22, 2014 by mikebv

[macinter]

8 team divisions would give

7 home league matches? How about 23 home league matches with different teams each week

OOPS!! I left half my post off and what I should have said was eight teams in three fairly local regions racing against each other twice which gives fourteen regional meetings. The top four in each division would then go on to form a nation wide Elite league of 12 teams and race against each other once. The bottom four would form a Premier League and do likewise. I would expect to attend more away meetings using my suggestion than I would under a national league of 24 teams.

[orion]

OOPS!! I left half my post off and what I should have said was eight teams in three fairly local regions racing against each other twice which gives fourteen regional meetings. The top four in each division would then go on to form a nation wide Elite league of 12 teams and race against each other once. The bottom four would form a Premier League and do likewise. I would expect to attend more away meetings using my suggestion than I would under a national league of 24 teams.

OMG

[ch958]

OOPS!! I left half my post off and what I should have said was eight teams in three fairly local regions racing against each other twice which gives fourteen regional meetings. The top four in each division would then go on to form a nation wide Elite league of 12 teams and race against each other once. The bottom four would form a Premier League and do likewise. I would expect to attend more away meetings using my suggestion than I would under a national league of 24 teams.

 

You might have been better off not mentioning this half of the post

[SteveLyric2]

The ten No1's in each of the ten teams roughly between them take £1 million a year out of the sport in this country, with the 'sky money' over the years basically going straight to them..

 

Combined, do they bring in £1 million a year through the turnstiles?? I would suggest no way near....

 

Years ago, PC, Mauger, Olsen, Penhall, Carter, Nielsen, Gunderson, Crump etc would definitely put 'extra bums on seats' when they visited your track, this was in the main due to you only having one chance a year to see them unless they rode for your team..

 

Nowadays on TV you can see all the top riders, via live gb league speedway, live gp's, live euro champs, live swc, live swedish league, bet 365 and loads of streaming channels for danish and polish league racing...

 

On virtually any given day of the week you can now watch the top riders compete where you used to see maybe highlights four times a year on world of sport of the 'worlds best'....

 

Familiarity has definitely bred contempt to such an extent that surely now it doesnt make any economic sense whatsoever to have such blatantly unsustainable salaries being paid over here and the time has come to part with the gp riders??

 

And given the fact that often these riders win by the proverbial mile when they gate it could be argued that without them racing may be closer too?

 

I am sure without gp riders then 'inferior riders' will try and raise their salary package as they become No1, however if the promoters have any strength of character they will use this situation to reduce costs in the league by a massive amount...

 

Most fans at the end of the day just want to see four riders in every race of similar ability levels, with all riders belonging to the two teams advertised and the meetings themselves taking place on the same consistent evening every week, maybe losing the gp 'stars' is a price worth paying to deliver this?..

 

As after all, you will still have them beamed into your front rooms from around the globe a good few nights of the week...

Don't disagree with any of that, other than to add that their must also be some control of machinery/costs etc so that engine tuners cannot put so much financial pressure on the riders! Then the riders wouldn't need to demand higher (and higher and higher) pay deals.

[Humphrey Appleby]

OOPS!! I left half my post off and what I should have said was eight teams in three fairly local regions racing against each other twice which gives fourteen regional meetings. The top four in each division would then go on to form a nation wide Elite league of 12 teams and race against each other once. The bottom four would form a Premier League and do likewise. I would expect to attend more away meetings using my suggestion than I would under a national league of 24 teams.

How would you plan an EL campaign with all the expenditure that goes with it, if you didn't even know whether you'd be riding in the competition until halfway through the season? Moreover, on-track success has very little to do with the economics of running a top-flight team, otherwise numerous PL teams would have moved up.

 

Even the concept of running in a 'super league' and lower level league in parallel is a total non-starter. You're immediately distinguishing one of your products as being lower quality, and you have virtually no chance of building up fan loyalty to a team or its riders if you're putting out different sides all the time.

 

There might be a case for fewer fixtures on less days, but basically each of the British leagues need to decide what economic level they can afford to run, what riders are available who can in principle fulfil all the fixtures, and then build a product around that. They should not be prostituting themselves to a relative handful of riders who want to cherry pick where and when they ride, but who do not justify the money they're paid (in terms of extra revenue they bring in) when they do ride.

[Guest]

 

Change is required from top to bottom. British Speedway needs the double up option and for it to work correctly the Premier League can't race the same night's as the Elite League. That's not arrogance, it's bloody common sense for goodness sake

 

But some PL tracks may have to stick to their present night's. Many are just stadium tenants. For example if Saturday was to be the one night for the PL, can you see Spedeworth International at Ipswich dropping their own promotions to let speedway (their tenants) have that night? There must be other venues where similar happenings would present themselves, possibly because of two or three nights a week for greyhound racing. Loo beyond speedway - it sadly is not a major sport ANYMORE and does not have the strength to dictate its WANTS AND NEEDS to stadium owners/landlords.

[PHILIPRISING]

How would you plan an EL campaign with all the expenditure that goes with it, if you didn't even know whether you'd be riding in the competition until halfway through the season? Moreover, on-track success has very little to do with the economics of running a top-flight team, otherwise numerous PL teams would have moved up.

 

Even the concept of running in a 'super league' and lower level league in parallel is a total non-starter. You're immediately distinguishing one of your products as being lower quality, and you have virtually no chance of building up fan loyalty to a team or its riders if you're putting out different sides all the time.

 

There might be a case for fewer fixtures on less days, but basically each of the British leagues need to decide what economic level they can afford to run, what riders are available who can in principle fulfil all the fixtures, and then build a product around that. They should not be prostituting themselves to a relative handful of riders who want to cherry pick where and when they ride, but who do not justify the money they're paid (in terms of extra revenue they bring in) when they do ride.

YOU make valid points but tracks are putting out different sides all the time now. At least if the fans knew what to expect and paid a lesser admission fee a secondary competition might work.

 

Watching the Swedish league, as I did in the company of my brother-in-law Larry Ross last night, makes you weep. No Woffinden for Vetlanda yet they can still afford to leave out Kolodziej and track a team without guests, etc. And despite racing at home on two consecutive nights the crowd was the envy of any British promoter.

[kbt]

It's not only about who owns their own track but what about the restrictions on the tracks by local councils with times etc.It is by no means certain they would allow them to run on the same nights.

[Chadster]

 

At least if the fans knew what to expect and paid a lesser admission fee a secondary competition might work.

 

 

No Woffinden for Vetlanda yet they can still afford to leave out Kolodziej and track a team without guests, etc. And despite racing at home on two consecutive nights the crowd was the envy of any British promoter.

I went to the two meetings at Wolverhampton this week and thought there were possibly more people at the Cradley meeting than the Wolves so running in two competitions might work, as you say. Certainly the crowd seemed more enthusiastic and more tolerant of the riders' efforts.

 

Out of interest, how much do Swedish clubs have to pay to rent their stadia?

[Fromafar]

YOU make valid points but tracks are putting out different sides all the time now. At least if the fans knew what to expect and paid a lesser admission fee a secondary competition might work.

 

Watching the Swedish league, as I did in the company of my brother-in-law Larry Ross last night, makes you weep. No Woffinden for Vetlanda yet they can still afford to leave out Kolodziej and track a team without guests, etc. And despite racing at home on two consecutive nights the crowd was the envy of any British promoter.

Forgetting all about one night speedway,IMO a number of British Tracks just can't cope with the bike technology nowadays,I have yet to see a Foreign that has long straights and tight corners they are all purpose built wide and sweeping corner which produce better racing IMO ,and it no coincidence that Scunthorpe and Somerset produce thrilling racing and were purpose built.Value for money has to be a priority .EL is not value for money IMO .