Tai Woffinden's Views On Single Night Racing In Uk

[moxey63]

Not many turned up in Poland tonight, to watch the top stars...

 

Are they (Poles) too used to seeing the top names?

 

Or is it, that TV and the Internet will ultimately bring the curtain down on terrace fans?

[orion]

Not many turned up in Poland tonight, to watch the top stars...

 

Are they (Poles) too used to seeing the top names?

 

Or is it, that TV and the Internet will ultimately bring the curtain down on terrace fans?

There is a protest from the Poles about the SEC ..do keep up .

[Crump99]

 

 

 

The quoted post was the third post on the thread. It had 14 "likes" . Post No 4 was an almost identical post by Frigbo and that had another 13 "likes", so a lot of people clearly thought they were sensible posts.

 

18 pages of pie-in-the sky ideas later and nobody has yet been able to deal with the fundamental point that stevehone makes. If stadium owners don't go along with the idea the whole thing falls flat. Plus the fact that fixed costs of running the stadium will be the same whether they run a speedway meeting or not so if there are then less meetings there will be less income from rent so unless the rent per meeting goes up speedway becomes an even less attractive source of income.

 

Then there is the point that Mick the muppet mentioned that if it was all on the same night what happens if your number one is injured and you can't get a guest because everyone else is racing that night ? If people are going to say we need a squad system where is the money for that coming from ? Increased admission charges ? Or do we assume that a single race night will bring in such an increase in crowds that there will somehow be enough money to pay for a 10 man squad ?

 

The idea of a single race night might be alright in theory but these fundamental things have to be addressed first. Go back to posts 3 and 4 from stevehone and Frogbo and tell me why they are wrong because at the moment I can't see it.

 

There you go Timbo, it can't be done:

 

 

Unless we try we won't know ...The one thing that is certain the crowds have dropped as the standard has so if we just keep doing that year after year it will kill the sport off very slowly .

 

Time for people in the sport to be brave .

[E I Addio]

 

There you go Timbo, it can't be done:

 

 

 

 

Timbo was one of those who "liked " Frigbo's post which, if you bother to read post 4 on the thread stated that Woofy's comments were a typical riders selfish point of view and as most clubs don't own their own stadia its not up to them.

 

Unless the question of stadium availability is addressed all these other ideas go out the window.

[Crump99]

 

 

Timbo was one of those who "liked " Frigbo's post which, if you bother to read post 4 on the thread stated that Woofy's comments were a typical riders selfish point of view and as most clubs don't own their own stadia its not up to them.

 

Unless the question of stadium availability is addressed all these other ideas go out the window.

 

I did my home work before I posted and did read post 4. I was surprised that he liked it but think "If you're tired, don't cream off the dollar in both Poland and Sweden and have a kip on Sunday or Tuesday." met his approval more than the stadium issues? It could be that we've had 18 pages of pie in the sky ideas which show that fans have had enough and the stadium availability issues need to be looked into as a priority. It may turn out to be an impossible dream but orion also said "Time for people in the sport to be brave", although Tsunami would ask him how he's going to pay for it!

Edited July 31, 2014 by Crump99

[krompa]

2 race nights (Monday + Wednesday or Thursday), max 18 meetings/team in regular season (in 10 teams EL league) + playoffs.

That is amount of meetings top riders will be happy to book in UK I believe (idea of watching every away team twice/season is simply stupid for me).

14 meetings in regular season in Poland and you know what? Every single one is a big thing for supporters. Make it more exclusive, bring top boys back and people will come to watch it.

Keep one British youngster in the team (to build bright future) and you will see progress. Nothing better than learn from the best (Poland and Sweden in this case).

Squad system with 2 number ones as an option for GP boys also good thing.

R/R, guest system - must go.

[E I Addio]

 

I did my home work before I posted and did read post 4. I was surprised that he liked it but think "If you're tired, don't cream off the dollar in both Poland and Sweden and have a kip on Sunday or Tuesday." met his approval more than the stadium issues? It could be that we've had 18 pages of pie in the sky ideas which show that fans have had enough and the stadium availability issues need to be looked into as a priority. It may turn out to be an impossible dream but orion also said "Time for people in the sport to be brave", although Tsunami would ask him how he's going to pay for it!

 

 

Of course stadium availability need to be looked at but unless and until it is and we know what availability there might be and at what cost, none of these other ideas get of the ground. What we do know is that most stadiums have other things going on which they may not be prepared to move.

 

Tai's interview was a typical piece of slap-dash Speedway Star journalism, merely reporting someone's comment's to create potential controversy. It is a pity that SS couldn't be bothered to develop the them and investigate stadium availability and let us know why and how things are different in Sweden and Poland, such as whether speedway competes with other sports in the same stadiums and a whole range of things that would be informative to the readers but as always they just went for the easy headline at minimum effort.

 

As for Tsunami asking how much it would cost, well cost is a pretty important factor, and orion's post quite surprised me actually because he normally is quite astute on the money side of things. Most of the posts on this thread are more of a wish list rather than a reasoned analysis of how it could be made to work..

[StevePark]

Move on ? then you suggest a idea from 1965 A big league has been tried it never worked and never will . As for Pl standard how on earth would bring the fans back in ? as the crowds are poor in that league .

 

You might not like fans want to see the big names and that will never change ....the thing that drives fans away is the lower standard of rider .

 

I don't know if you've noticed, but, generally speaking, crowds are poor in all three leagues.

[stratton]

Move on ? then you suggest a idea from 1965 A big league has been tried it never worked and never will . As for Pl standard how on earth would bring the fans back in ? as the crowds are poor in that league .

 

You might not like fans want to see the big names and that will never change ....the thing that drives fans away is the lower standard of rider .

When the big league was tried before it was in different circumstances,trying it now would be a different proposition.It has to happen for me in the future,the EL is doomed i believe the way it is at the moment. And that would be a certainty without the sky money, i don't know how a new league can be implemented but i know there has to be CHANGE.

[Humphrey Appleby]

Tai's interview was a typical piece of slap-dash Speedway Star journalism, merely reporting someone's comment's to create potential controversy. It is a pity that SS couldn't be bothered to develop the them and investigate stadium availability and let us know why and how things are different in Sweden and Poland

Of course not. Expecting critical analysis of any issues facing the sport is a forlorn hope.

 

such as whether speedway competes with other sports in the same stadiums and a whole range of things that would be informative to the readers but as always they just went for the easy headline at minimum effort.

The situation in Poland and Sweden is generally well known to informed followers of international speedway, but it probably doesn't help to make comparison as the situation in Britain is largely different - not least with respect to dogs/stocks, pressure on land for development, and other economics.

 

When I looked at it a few years ago, I think it was possible to run the Elite League on a couple of days a week, but that's not the whole story. I think one of the options was Monday and Wednesday, but that wouldn't help because the Swedish Elite League is on Tuesday. Wednesday and Thursdays was maybe another option, but that still caused issues with the SGP practice, even assuming it was economical for some tracks (e.g. Eastbourne) to run on those days. Then you have to consider how guesting would work, because if every team is riding on the same day, or even on just two days, the availability of suitable guests would be problematic.

[moxey63]

WE, as fans, have differing ideas on how to engineer British Speedway's dramatic upturn, it's recovery.

 

But, it is, unfortunately, all deckchair chatter...

 

We have no powers (apart from no longer attending - and then the men (and ladies) in the drive seat, promoters to their friends, they don't find out why crowds drop, so it is a waste of time this protest).

 

We are, I'm afraid, simply talking behind the backs of parents... telling them how to control their children.

 

They know best.

 

Promoters attitude is: It's our money ... and we'll do what we want.

[frigbo]

In an ideal world, set race nights, big hitting teams and squad systems are where top level British club speedway should be aiming. The key point is "ideal world."

Obvious stumbling blocks are track availability and cost, both of which are debated here. Track availability may be surmountable as Monday and Wednesday nights look like they will fit. Although i'm still not convinced riders would arrive in droves to perform on those nights, or any nights for that matter!

Cost is the show-stopper in my opinion. Many fans already see admission as too high and the additional overhead of top riders and/or squads would have to push prices to £20-25. Better value than now maybe, but I'm not convinced fans would part with that price, even every 2 weeks.

The other debate is whether the lost fans would return simply because the better riders are back in the league. Speaking as a "lost fan", personally my answer is "no" as there are numerous other issues which have made me throw in the towel.

 

In no particular order, the folowing being addressed would go futher to getting me back than the likes of Hancock or Jonsson rocking up every week/fortnight:

Promoter and governing body integrity
Rider commitment and attitude to clubs (most don't even know (or care) what the score is!)
Settled teams
Absolutely no guests
one rider, one club
better value for money
weekend racing (getting in from work at 7 doesn't help)

 

oh, and.....

 

:drink:cheaper beer

 

Personally i would love 2 bigger leagues with promotion and relegation to give the sport credibility to people outside. Unfortunately speedway will never make this work because of the self-interest inherent in every decision. The re-balancing required would end up like 1995 as richer clubs hog prized assets.

It's all well and good debating race nights and if riders want to race here. But until the people running the sport get it's recovery as top priority, those debates are futile.

Edited August 1, 2014 by frigbo

[Humphrey Appleby]

In an ideal world, set race nights, big hitting teams and squad systems are where top level British club speedway should be aiming. The key point is "ideal world."

In an ideal world, there would be one European competition involving the top teams from Britain, Poland and Sweden, plus possibly Denmark and maybe other countries. Teams would only ride in that competition, and riders would only ride for one team, except maybe lower order riders who could double-down to national leagues. It would then allow the remaining teams to ride in more cost-effective national leagues.

 

The key point is 'ideal world' though.

[moxey63]

We had an ideal world, I feel, when Britain was tops for speedway... and yet, promoters still moaned about falling crowds and, subsequently began chopping team-building averages to cut out the big names. I don't know what the team-building average is today, but I bet it doesn't allow for three big-hitting riders like days of yore.

 

Therefore, promoters have long noticed the need for cutting cloth, whether to give themselves bigger profits or lesser losses.

 

When we had big names riding, crowds mustn't have been big enough to warrant them; now, with many gone, the lack of major names over here surely must have lessened British speedway's power of attraction to paying public, a percentage of which probably stopped attending because what was being served didn't maintain the pull it once did.

 

We are at the crossroads right now - do we try to tempt the big stars back, race when they want us to; or do we rid the league (whether it's one big one etc) of the remaining ones, men you know are one step here and one step somewhere else every night of the blooming week?

 

Personally, I would point towards the latter suggestion.

[Gemini]

 

 

Personally, I would point towards the latter suggestion.

 

Me too. Doesn't bother me not seeing the so called 'big stars'.

[orion]

First of all I like Frigbo's post for the Fact that Tai wanted changes to suit him . Saying that I am still in favour of one or two nights for the El . Talking to the stadium oweners about race nights about the number of matches is something you have to do every season and sure thou there would be less matches for rent, we already have teams like Wolves and Cov already using the stadium for other matches while others like Kl own there own . As for the others what are they going to do kick them out ? rather that have 10 nights rent a season and even more if you run Nl etc .

 

As for number 1's missing there could be rr or job shares etc it's not impossible at all . Also what else do stadiums do on Mondays nights ? I don't remember anything at Swindon so yet again I real can't see that as a problem . I may be wrong I never seen any other sport move forward because they got rid of the best people in the sport . Are say it again the only way forward is to some how get more people to watch the sport not keep cutting the costs to lower the standard so more fans walk away ,that plan been in place for the last 25 years

[Marcelle]

So what would you do if your number One rider is injured as there would be no other riders available to take his place , as they would all be racing.

Squad system....It would work.

[The White Knight]

Squad system....It would work.

No it wouldn't - it would cost too much.

[phillipsr]

No it wouldn't - it would cost too much.

No that for a fact do you??

[moxey63]

Please excuse me... but I would prefer a full seven-side line-up without riders being brought in when somebody is riding somewhere for another team.

 

Have other riders below the seven that have a link with the club (an asset etc) but let's get away from making it a rider free-for-all by allowing them to ride for more than one team.

 

People would say this would be breach of employment law, but didn't Simon Stead sit out a Sheffield match recently, as it was World Cup week? Was it his choice or at the behest of SWC.

Edited August 2, 2014 by moxey63