Ben Wilson Leaves Stoke

[TMW]

What about Christ mills could he ride ?

Is he over 30?

 

That rule could do with changing as even Scunthorpe the self proclaimed development supremos tried to sign a second 30 year old

Edited July 18, 2014 by TMW

[StevePark]

Is he over 30?

 

That rule could do with changing as even Scunthorpe the self proclaimed development supremos tried to sign a second 30 year old

 

D.O.B. 29/3/83

[TMW]

D.O.B. 29/3/83

That makes him and, I'm sticking my neck out here, 31?

[Islander15]

That makes him and, I'm sticking my neck out here, 31?

His average is over 10 anyway!

[TMW]

His average is over 10 anyway!

Fair enough

[Jayne]

His average is over 10 anyway!

He can't double down anyway as he is not under 25.

[Baldy]

I used to wonder why I do not go to speedway. Not any more. It's stuff like this. I wish speedway would think of a good way to put their product to the public. This isn't it. Wilson, Stark, Worrell, and a few more were way too good to be racing in this league from the start of the season but due to their laughable way of producing averages, they get in. It's speedway Jim but not as I knew it.

[NTB]

Oh dear. Hear we go again.

My words exactly

[Halifaxtiger]

and offering big money (for the NL) helps a little

 

................and that's exactly what you would do if you had the finances that Cradley have. In fact, its what (almost) every other club in the EL, PL & NL would do (and indeed do do).

 

All Cradley have done is build the best possible team they can with the aim of being successful on track and in doing so have used the considerable financial muscle their success off track has created.

 

What on earth is wrong with that ?

So what those who think every thing is fair, are saying is that all teams start on a level playing field..Dispite the fact that some teams pay considerably more to their riders and therefore attract all the best improvers...And others who stick to the pay rate and struggle to put out a competitive side .in my opinion teams should be allowed to strengthen to within at least a couple of points of the team with the highest combined average at the end of each month during the season to keep the league competitive At the moment the difference between the top team and the bottom team is about 30 points how does that produce good racing

 

Answer is, it doesn't.

 

But every season you get teams who are better than others for a number of reasons, not just the potential of the line ups at the start. They is often a huge disparity by June despite the level playing field in March and I witnessed that last night at Edinburgh.

 

The 30 points isn't Cradley's fault, either. Some of their results have been reasonably close; none of Scunthorpe's have.

 

As to sticking to the pay rates, I suspect there's only one team in the NL that does that.

I used to wonder why I do not go to speedway. Not any more. It's stuff like this. I wish speedway would think of a good way to put their product to the public. This isn't it. Wilson, Stark, Worrell, and a few more were way too good to be racing in this league from the start of the season but due to their laughable way of producing averages, they get in. It's speedway Jim but not as I knew it.

 

Ok, lets dump the likes of those you have named along with Atkin, Armstrong, Halsey, Lambert, Jacobs, Cockle and Nielsen, replace them with 3pt novices and watch the stand alone clubs go bust one by one and double up teams pull out because their losses are too great.

 

When we people understand that NL speedway is a business, a business that must be viable (or at least sustainable) and that to ensure that that is the case the product must be attractive enough to pull in paying spectators.

 

People simply will not pay to watch junior meetings (ask yourself why all Scunthorpe's away meetings are suddenly becoming double headers) so its a matter of compromise: get the youngsters in, but get some more experienced and capable ones in too.

 

In my view, most of the NL clubs have done precisely that.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Halifaxtiger

[Jayne]

 

................and that's exactly what you would do if you had the finances that Cradley have. In fact, its what (almost) every other club in the EL, PL & NL would do (and indeed do do).

 

All Cradley have done is build the best possible team they can with the aim of being successful on track and in doing so have used the considerable financial muscle their success off track has created.

 

What on earth is wrong with that ?

 

 

Plenty when the clubs sit down and agree a pay rate. Paying over the odds in the NL also impacts on the PL and the EL. If a rider is getting £20-£30 per point and no deductions in the NL and scoring well how much will they expect in the PL and then in turn in the EL where they have to pay for tyres and insurance and will probably be scoring 4 or 5 a meeting if they are lucky. The rich clubs needs to remember that they need the poorer clubs to race against.

[Halifaxtiger]

Plenty when the clubs sit down and agree a pay rate. Paying over the odds in the NL also impacts on the PL and the EL. If a rider is getting £20-£30 per point and no deductions in the NL and scoring well how much will they expect in the PL and then in turn in the EL where they have to pay for tyres and insurance and will probably be scoring 4 or 5 a meeting if they are lucky. The rich clubs needs to remember that they need the poorer clubs to race against.

 

And how many stick to that pay rate ?

 

I'll certainly accept your word on this, but I have been told several times that Buxton have paid over it in the past.

 

What a rider expects and what he gets are two entirely different things.

 

The rich clubs might need the poor clubs (although the same thing applies vice versa) but I see no reason why the bar should be set at the lowest possible level just to suit those who are not as successful off track. This is a matter of compromise, and in my experience it is the poorer ones who are far less willing to accept that.

[mac101]

Just think of the poor riders that are getting less than the standard rates !!

[Jayne]

Just think of the poor riders that are getting less than the standard rates !!

Didn't know there were any?

[Baldy]

 

................and that's exactly what you would do if you had the finances that Cradley have. In fact, its what (almost) every other club in the EL, PL & NL would do (and indeed do do).

 

All Cradley have done is build the best possible team they can with the aim of being successful on track and in doing so have used the considerable financial muscle their success off track has created.

 

What on earth is wrong with that ?

 

Answer is, it doesn't.

 

But every season you get teams who are better than others for a number of reasons, not just the potential of the line ups at the start. They is often a huge disparity by June despite the level playing field in March and I witnessed that last night at Edinburgh.

 

The 30 points isn't Cradley's fault, either. Some of their results have been reasonably close; none of Scunthorpe's have.

 

As to sticking to the pay rates, I suspect there's only one team in the NL that does that.

 

Ok, lets dump the likes of those you have named along with Atkin, Armstrong, Halsey, Lambert, Jacobs, Cockle and Nielsen, replace them with 3pt novices and watch the stand alone clubs go bust one by one and double up teams pull out because their losses are too great.

 

When we people understand that NL speedway is a business, a business that must be viable (or at least sustainable) and that to ensure that that is the case the product must be attractive enough to pull in paying spectators.

 

People simply will not pay to watch junior meetings (ask yourself why all Scunthorpe's away meetings are suddenly becoming double headers) so its a matter of compromise: get the youngsters in, but get some more experienced and capable ones in too.

 

In my view, most of the NL clubs have done precisely that.

Either dump them or fill the league with the standard of the riders named above.....but please do not fill the teams with 10 point and 3 pointers as you fall between two massively different stools. Quite right that people will not pay to watch junior meetings, but the national is trying to do that by having 3 pointers in the teams. If the rider is a true three pointer standard then he is a novice or junior or whatever you want to call them.You cannot disguise what is being served up by putting higher standard riders in to "compromise" to get these lads a ride. Have the highest standard of riders we have in this land riding and not sitting on the side lines whilst we ask the public to pay to watch part junior meetings. I'm not stupid and know that they have to make money out of what they put on, but the board ham-string them with stupid rules stopping riders from riding because they are too good. I will not compromise with my sport. If people will not pay to watch teams of 3 pointers ( which they will not) then do not try to fool the public by going this way. Where will the 3 pointers get their rides?. In junior meetings until they are better and beat riders in the national in a return to second halve rides.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Steeplejack

[TMW]

Either dump them or fill the in ybe PL eague with the standard of the riders named above.....but please do not fill the teams with 10 point and 3 pointers as you fall between two massively different stools. Quite right that people will not pay to watch junior meetings, but the national is trying to do that by having 3 pointers in the teams. If the rider is a true three pointer standard then he is a novice or junior or whatever you want to call them.You cannot disguise what is being served up by putting higher standard riders in to "compromise" to get these lads a ride. Have the highest standard of riders we have in this land riding and not sitting on the side lines whilst we ask the public to pay to watch part junior meetings. I'm not stupid and know that they have to make money out of what they put on, but the board ham-string them with stupid rules stopping riders from riding because they are too good. I will not compromise with my sport. If people will not pay to watch teams of 3 pointers ( which they will not) then do not try to fool the public by going this way. Where will the 3 pointers get their rides?. In junior meetings until they are better and beat riders in the national in a return to second halve rides.

That theory is a good one but until the concept of the 7 ride, meeting winning, ringer reserve I is dropped then that will never work because the jump from the NL no.1 to PL reserve is too high and they have to much pressure on them

[Halifaxtiger]

Either dump them or fill the league with the standard of the riders named above.....but please do not fill the teams with 10 point and 3 pointers as you fall between two massively different stools. Quite right that people will not pay to watch junior meetings, but the national is trying to do that by having 3 pointers in the teams. If the rider is a true three pointer standard then he is a novice or junior or whatever you want to call them.You cannot disguise what is being served up by putting higher standard riders in to "compromise" to get these lads a ride. Have the highest standard of riders we have in this land riding and not sitting on the side lines whilst we ask the public to pay to watch part junior meetings. I'm not stupid and know that they have to make money out of what they put on, but the board ham-string them with stupid rules stopping riders from riding because they are too good. I will not compromise with my sport. If people will not pay to watch teams of 3 pointers ( which they will not) then do not try to fool the public by going this way. Where will the 3 pointers get their rides?. In junior meetings until they are better and beat riders in the national in a return to second halve rides.

 

Last night, I watched Craig Cook and Liam Carr in the same meeting. A few weeks ago, I watched Niels Kristian Iversen and Michael Palm Toft in the same one. In the early 1980's, I saw Bruce Penhall and Alan Mogridge in the same meeting.

 

My point is the gulf between riders happens in all 3 leagues and always has - or at least for as long as we have had some form of rider control or points limit, which is the past 50 years.

 

My view on the NL is a simple one. It is to develop our young British riders but the tracks in it must be a viable or sustainable business and people just will not pay to watch junior meetings. So what you have to do is combine getting the youngsters in with a few older and/or more experienced riders to ensure that the entertainment content is higher.

 

For the most part, the NL has done precisely that and I have no argument with it.

[Baldy]

 

Last night, I watched Craig Cook and Liam Carr in the same meeting. A few weeks ago, I watched Niels Kristian Iversen and Michael Palm Toft in the same one. In the early 1980's, I saw Bruce Penhall and Alan Mogridge in the same meeting.

 

My point is the gulf between riders happens in all 3 leagues and always has - or at least for as long as we have had some form of rider control or points limit, which is the past 50 years.

 

My view on the NL is a simple one. It is to develop our young British riders but the tracks in it must be a viable or sustainable business and people just will not pay to watch junior meetings. So what you have to do is combine getting the youngsters in with a few older and/or more experienced riders to ensure that the entertainment content is higher.

 

For the most part, the NL has done precisely that and I have no argument with it.

Good response Halifax. It's plain to see that you love your speedway through and through and watch it at all levels and always will but I hope you can see that others can see what is being served up is not to every ones taste. In most if not all sports you do not mix levels in the way that speedway does.To earn your right in a team, the manager at least has to view you as good enough to go out and perform with the others. In speedway, we are forced to pick and as spectators to watch the riders that fall within a poorly set-up and executed average system. Poor example but if Man Utd were forced to play a few Port Vale young players in their side just to conform to rules, I'm not so sure that the crowds would flood in. Although knowing quite a few Utd supporters they would.I know that Speedway is different in that the 6-7's ride against each other and 2-7 etc so in the most part the big boys and the reserves are kept apart but that to me just shows that we have junior racing slipped in as though we do not notice and we both agree that people will not pay to watch junior racing. TMW makes a good point on the ringer 7 which again to me is the biggest mockery of the sport as though we don't know it as a problem.....apart from the teams that have them.!! Quite right that this has gone on since the year dot and may be my glasses are extremely rose tinted in watching it in the past but now I have woken up and smelt those roses and the smell has put me off.

[Bolt]

No idea about averages but how about seeing if Nick Simmons could fill the post. Feel for Stoke and don't really understand how Stefan was able to double up when he was called up for Rye House. I am sure I am missing the obvious

[MrMungo]

No idea about averages but how about seeing if Nick Simmons could fill the post. Feel for Stoke and don't really understand how Stefan was able to double up when he was called up for Rye House. I am sure I am missing the obvious

Because his average is under 5. Charles Wright also was able to double-up last season when he was signed mid-season by an PL team.

Wilson's average is over 6, so not comparable on this occasion.

[Jayne]

No idea about averages but how about seeing if Nick Simmons could fill the post. Feel for Stoke and don't really understand how Stefan was able to double up when he was called up for Rye House. I am sure I am missing the obvious

Stefan Nielsen's starting PL average was 4.70 whilst Ben Wilson's is 6.10. Ben is also over 25. Current rules are a rider 5 or under and aged under 25 at the start of the season providing they are not in an initial PL 1-7 may remain in the NL. Any rider 4 or under and aged under 25 and ride both PL and NL.

 

 

Beat me to it Mr Mungo

Edited July 20, 2014 by Jayne