foamfence Posted July 6, 2014 Report Share Posted July 6, 2014 Years ago riders COULD earn a living riding in one league, it also gave them more chance of employment outside of speedway, if they chose to take it. The difference today is costs, engines went many more meetings between services, tires lasted several meetings and even a lot of big names would arrive with one bike on a rack on the back of their car. Unless steps are taken to reduce costs the situation will continue to get worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted July 6, 2014 Report Share Posted July 6, 2014 The Premier League has been stuffed this year with Elite having priority over doubling up, too many riders missing and too many guests, just one of many reasons why I have stopped going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagpuss Posted July 6, 2014 Report Share Posted July 6, 2014 But the EL doesn't have overall priority, it does over any assets but most riders must represent their PL club first. That said the number of guests across both leagues does nothing to encourage people to go to speedway regularly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyretrax Posted July 6, 2014 Report Share Posted July 6, 2014 Exactly the kind of attitude which will see the sport continue to struggle. The two leagues need to work together better rather than think 'I'm alright Jack'. So the P.L. should just put up and shut up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagpuss Posted July 6, 2014 Report Share Posted July 6, 2014 Errrrr nope, the leagues need to work together. They are both using each others assets so they need to work towards minimal clashes and make sure that any absences are shared equally ie Swindon shouldn't suffer every time Worrall rides for Edinburgh and nor should Plymouth each time Newman rides for Poole (when there are clashes) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted July 7, 2014 Report Share Posted July 7, 2014 Why should the PL suffer, the EL have only themselves to blame with there constant mismanagement. Why should the PL suffer, the EL have only themselves to blame with there constant mismanagement. Exactly the kind of attitude which will see the sport continue to struggle. The two leagues need to work together better rather than think 'I'm alright Jack'. not really - in order for speedway to be unified it has to be at an affordable level - EL seem to have no interest in this so your ire is aimed in completely the wrong direction - I'm sure PL would welcome any EL track BUT on its own, affordable, manageable terms. 200k loss at Eastbourne this year remember - god knows how much elsewhere I have no doubt there are mismanagement issues and significant losses in the PL too. PL relies on EL riders 'doubling down' too, but it seems a little harsh for the PL to get priority over a doubling up rider when neither of his clubs can claim him as an asset. Would be fairer to divide the clashes down the middle and share the absences. The Premier League has been stuffed this year with Elite having priority over doubling up, too many riders missing and too many guests, just one of many reasons why I have stopped going. But the EL doesn't have overall priority, it does over any assets but most riders must represent their PL club first. That said the number of guests across both leagues does nothing to encourage people to go to speedway regularly. So the P.L. should just put up and shut up. Credibility is the problem here. The problem is - Speedway doesn't have any these days. :sad: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted July 7, 2014 Report Share Posted July 7, 2014 as a fan its not our problem about riders earning a living...and i know that may sound harsh, but as a SPORT, a fan wantsto follow his/her own teamIt becomes the fans problem though if riders leave the sport because they cant afford to race, or have to race on sub standard equipment because they can't afford decent kit. Look at the criticism tai has received for not having top quality engines in the uk. I dont disagree with trying to reduce the number of riders missing meetings, but I think a better way is to have set race nights for the different leagues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted July 7, 2014 Report Share Posted July 7, 2014 Errrrr nope, the leagues need to work together. They are both using each others assets so they need to work towards minimal clashes and make sure that any absences are shared equally ie Swindon shouldn't suffer every time Worrall rides for Edinburgh and nor should Plymouth each time Newman rides for Poole (when there are clashes) work together - how? minimal clashes- how? perhaps if the EL clubs had a pool of du riders they could select the ones available eg 2 du riders per EL team - a pool of 4 or 5 PL riders they can call on allows continuity at PL level and EL level yes the EL teams wouldn't have the same 1 to 7 every week but every rider in the team would be from within their 'squad' there isn't a perfect answer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted July 7, 2014 Report Share Posted July 7, 2014 Big difference from 20 years ago is that EL clubs no longer have weekly meetings - just 18 (14 last year) league matches. As a consequence if riders aren't riding abroad they must race in PL in order to get enough meetings. If doubling up is abolished or severely curtailed there could only be a handful of Brits in the EL. And the number of guests has been shocking this year. We need to return to the situation where two riders cover a double up spot. I'd also go back to one d/u per team in order to match supply and demand for d/u places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shale Searcher Posted July 7, 2014 Report Share Posted July 7, 2014 Pools if riders/share riders out/reduce costs/watered down Purely words used only in Speedway... Fans cannot get attached to riders/clubs This generates apathy, destroys enthusiasm, get to meetings at all costs...... Do any teams sell rider / team rosettes anymore.... No longer fan -> team/rider worship Team photos taken in March, still sold in June, not anymore!! No team spirit (riders) = No team spirit = (fans) Riders no longer loyal to their clubs, 9:39pm, last race of the evening for Sheffield, 9:50 on the road for Manchester airport for flight to Sweden, no local socialising from most riders, fly in, ride, fly out!!! That's what has destroyed Speedway in the UK (as well as track / stadium neglect), boring racing etc......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz01 Posted July 7, 2014 Report Share Posted July 7, 2014 (edited) Squads! Why this hasnt at least been tried I will never know. Seems such a simple idea to me. Coventry had a situation where we had Hans and MJJ missing and had to use 2 PL 6 pointers, if there was a squad then it wouldve been avoided. Just an example, Hans Andersen Andreas Jonsson Chris Harris Michael Jepsen Jensen Gregorz Zengota Kenneth Hansen Kyle Howarth Josh Auty FTD Jason Garrity James Sarjeant Olly Greenwood A squad system would have let us use Jonsson and Zengota in that situation, im sure the crowd at Kings Lynn wouldve prefered a line up with them instead of 2PL 6 pointers. Its the only way EL can continue to race on multiple race nights and having competitive sides. Also would significantly reduce guests and R/R. Use their season starting average and named 1-5 cant exceed a points limit. Simple. Edited July 7, 2014 by woz01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted July 7, 2014 Report Share Posted July 7, 2014 Squads! Why this hasnt at least been tried I will never know. Seems such a simple idea to me. Coventry had a situation where we had Hans and MJJ missing and had to use 2 PL 6 pointers, if there was a squad then it wouldve been avoided. Just an example, Hans Andersen Andreas Jonsson Chris Harris Michael Jepsen Jensen Gregorz Zengota Kenneth Hansen Kyle Howarth Josh Auty FTD Jason Garrity James Sarjeant Olly Greenwood A squad system would have let us use Jonsson and Zengota in that situation, im sure the crowd at Kings Lynn wouldve prefered a line up with them instead of 2PL 6 pointers. Its the only way EL can continue to race on multiple race nights and having competitive sides. Also would significantly reduce guests and R/R. Use their season starting average and named 1-5 cant exceed a points limit. Simple. sounds good to me i would cap squads at 10 rather than 12 but otherwise whats not to like? even riders not racing in EL regularly would be prepared to be squad members - 10/12 meetings a year maybe however this solves only one problem - the issue of guests - it doesn't address the lack of crowds and resulting lack of funds to pay for a squad! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted July 7, 2014 Report Share Posted July 7, 2014 sounds good to me i would cap squads at 10 rather than 12 but otherwise whats not to like? even riders not racing in EL regularly would be prepared to be squad members - 10/12 meetings a year maybe however this solves only one problem - the issue of guests - it doesn't address the lack of crowds and resulting lack of funds to pay for a squad! It would all come down to COST. If it costs money - it will not happen. Good idea though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruiser McHuge Posted July 7, 2014 Report Share Posted July 7, 2014 If it came down to double uppers having to choose between one team or another , or even the Elite team having first choice all the time then I honestly think a lot of riders would choose the Premier League ahead of the Elite League, especially with no foreign leagues to fall back on They would have more meetings...they may not earn as much per point would would probably score a lot more to compensate that and they could definitely run cheaper bikes over a season Even a rider like Craig Cook would face a difficult decision as his guaranteed 14 or 15 a meeting would be a lot to give up for virtual part time riding in the Elite League It would all come down to COST. If it costs money - it will not happen. Good idea though. I agree squads will never happen here...teams are struggling to pay their existing riders so to have a GP standard rider contracted on standby is going to be mega expensive...nobody will sign a deal for nothing just to be a squad member, they will want a signing on fee, a good retainer and probably bikes available if they are going to be available to ride at short notice.....teams aren't in a position to offer that these days 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shale Searcher Posted July 7, 2014 Report Share Posted July 7, 2014 Not all riders seem to actually want to "guest ride" or can't for whatever reason.... Professional Guests ( not knocking them by the way) Rory Shlein Chris Harris Davey Watt Scott Nicholls Never seem to guest (not knocking these either) Hans Andersen Tai Woffinden Jason Doyle Does anyone want to add names to these lists and also how many guest appearances these have/have not made this season.... Would a rider be able to earn a living in a season just guest riding? Perhaps if you had a small pool of unattached riders allowed to guest all season, perhap limit appearences for the same team though.. Perhaps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 Tai guested a bit earlier in the season, actually came in for criticism for it I believe, because from memory he had been mentioning heavy workload on one hand and taking guest bookings at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A ORLOV Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 Due to the visa cock up Jason is not allowed to guest, otherwise Swindon would have used him on a couple of dates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 It would all come down to COST. If it costs money - it will not happen. Good idea though. i don't see why it would - they would only get paid if they rode - you are still paying 7 riders per match admittedly some riders are on retainers, etc so yes an extra expense in that respect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 i don't see why it would - they would only get paid if they rode - you are still paying 7 riders per match admittedly some riders are on retainers, etc so yes an extra expense in that respect As I said though - historically 'extra money = no no'. :nono: :sad: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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