G the Bee Posted July 5, 2014 Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 As far as I'm concerned, the doubling-up rule is a pain in the backside. What started out ten-or-so years ago as a scheme with the intention of, for a limited amount of time, giving up-and-coming British riders the chance to gain experience in the top league without taking the hit of losing their income in the Premier League, has turned into a bloated, out of control monster which is playing havoc with EL fixtures. Of course, no-one knows what the make-up of the EL will be next season. But, assuming the status quo is roughly maintained (another debate for another day) something has to be done about the doubling-up rule. The simple solution, and one I would prefer, would be to scrap the rule pretty much completely. Only FTD reserves would be allowed to double up. However, if that is not possible, drastic changes are needed. We can't have the farcical situation maintained where a team in the lower division has priority over a rider in the event of a fixture clash. Asset or not, that situation is a nonsense. And now there is no limit on the amount of time a rider can double up, the situation is worse. Theoretically, a rider progressing in the Premier League, such as Craig Cook, Richard Lawson, Richie Worrall, Kyle Howarth or many of the new FTD riders, will never need to move-up to the EL full time. So, in the case of Cook or Howarth, for example, they can continue to ply their trade in both leagues pretty much indefinitely (perhaps even, in the case of Cook, as a heat leader in both) but at a continued detriment to their Elite League clubs as both are assets of Premier League clubs. In the past, a PL club, realising their rider wanted to take the natural progression from PL to EL, would have been content to sell their rider, but this is no longer the case. Assuming the rider in question is happy at his PL club, why, for example, would Workington sell Kyle Howarth to Coventry knowing that as soon as they do so, they lose priority over his fixtures even though Howarth would be able to represent Workington for many seasons to come. It's time for the EL to get tough. The fact is, many of these riders are not PL riders propping up the EL, but EL riders providing the PL with its heat leaders. Despite this, at the moment, the deck seems unfairly stacked in favour of the Premier League. The situation needs reversing. Next season, the EL promoters should decide at the AGM that any rider (with the exception of a 'Fast Track' reserve) who wishes to double up will only be allowed to do so if they prioritise their EL fixtures. This will, essentially make the riders (who up to now have had the luxury of 'having their cake and eating it') decide what type of rider they wish to be. If riders like Cook, Howarth, Lawson, etc are content to just ply their trade in the PL, so be it. But, I suspect, if the riders were forced to make a decision, most (and certainly the up-and coming riders) would go with EL. Harsh but fair to all concerned. If a rider wishes to ride in the top division then he must ensure his EL fixtures take priority. If he doesn't, then he can stay in the PL. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy robin Posted July 5, 2014 Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 As far as I'm concerned, the doubling-up rule is a pain in the backside. What started out ten-or-so years ago as a scheme with the intention of, for a limited amount of time, giving up-and-coming British riders the chance to gain experience in the top league without taking the hit of losing their income in the Premier League, has turned into a bloated, out of control monster which is playing havoc with EL fixtures. Of course, no-one knows what the make-up of the EL will be next season. But, assuming the status quo is roughly maintained (another debate for another day) something has to be done about the doubling-up rule. The simple solution, and one I would prefer, would be to scrap the rule pretty much completely. Only FTD reserves would be allowed to double up. However, if that is not possible, drastic changes are needed. We can't have the farcical situation maintained where a team in the lower division has priority over a rider in the event of a fixture clash. Asset or not, that situation is a nonsense. And now there is no limit on the amount of time a rider can double up, the situation is worse. Theoretically, a rider progressing in the Premier League, such as Craig Cook, Richard Lawson, Richie Worrall, Kyle Howarth or many of the new FTD riders, will never need to move-up to the EL full time. So, in the case of Cook or Howarth, for example, they can continue to ply their trade in both leagues pretty much indefinitely (perhaps even, in the case of Cook, as a heat leader in both) but at a continued detriment to their Elite League clubs as both are assets of Premier League clubs. In the past, a PL club, realising their rider wanted to take the natural progression from PL to EL, would have been content to sell their rider, but this is no longer the case. Assuming the rider in question is happy at his PL club, why, for example, would Workington sell Kyle Howarth to Coventry knowing that as soon as they do so, they lose priority over his fixtures even though Howarth would be able to represent Workington for many seasons to come. It's time for the EL to get tough. The fact is, many of these riders are not PL riders propping up the EL, but EL riders providing the PL with its heat leaders. Despite this, at the moment, the deck seems unfairly stacked in favour of the Premier League. The situation needs reversing. Next season, the EL promoters should decide at the AGM that any rider (with the exception of a 'Fast Track' reserve) who wishes to double up will only be allowed to do so if they prioritise their EL fixtures. This will, essentially make the riders (who up to now have had the luxury of 'having their cake and eating it') decide what type of rider they wish to be. If riders like Cook, Howarth, Lawson, etc are content to just ply their trade in the PL, so be it. But, I suspect, if the riders were forced to make a decision, most (and certainly the up-and coming riders) would go with EL. Harsh but fair to all concerned. If a rider wishes to ride in the top division then he must ensure his EL fixtures take priority. If he doesn't, then he can stay in the PL. Agree with a certain amount of what you're saying but these boys will rarely get the chance to ride in Sweden or Poland so need to ride in both leagues to earn a living. Look In Sweden & some of their top riders ride in both their leagues. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G the Bee Posted July 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 (edited) Agree with a certain amount of what you're saying but these boys will rarely get the chance to ride in Sweden or Poland so need to ride in both leagues to earn a living. Look In Sweden & some of their top riders ride in both their leagues. Under my proposal, the riders still can ride in both leagues... Provided they prioritise their EL fixtures. To be honest, I often wonder just how hard it is for riders to find a ride in Sweden or Poland. I suspect that it's more to do with they get (in the short-term at least) a better financial deal which is far less risky and its far less hassle in terms of travelling, to ride PL instead. And once they are riding a full set of EL and PL fixtures, they don't need to ride in Sweden and Poland. Don't forget, if they ride in the PL it pretty much precludes them from riding in Poland due to Sunday fixture clashes. Edited July 5, 2014 by G the Bee 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan_Jones Posted July 5, 2014 Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 The EL have only themselves to blame. They've continually mismanaged their side of the shop to the extent that they are outvoted 13-10 and probably soon to be 15-8. If they want more exclusive use of doubling up riders they need to make the riders and their PL promoters offers they can't refuse, and we know that in most cases that is no longer viable, so they are stuck with what they've got. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy robin Posted July 5, 2014 Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 Under my proposal, the riders still can ride in both leagues... Provided they prioritise their EL fixtures. To be honest, I often wonder just how hard it is for riders to find a ride in Sweden or Poland. I suspect that it's more to do with they get (in the short-term at least) a better financial deal which is far less risky and its far less hassle in terms of travelling, to ride PL instead. And once they are riding a full set of EL and PL fixtures, they don't need to ride in Sweden and Poland. Don't forget, if they ride in the PL it pretty much precludes them from riding in Poland due to Sunday fixture clashes. Yeah fair rule but hard on a Premier League team if it's an asset really but there does have to be a set rule in place as the guests & r/r are getting worse than ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted July 5, 2014 Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 (edited) Agree with a certain amount of what you're saying but these boys will rarely get the chance to ride in Sweden or Poland so need to ride in both leagues to earn a living. Look In Sweden & some of their top riders ride in both their leagues. So right Robin this should never happen,how can the likes of Cook make a living and invest in his aquipment if he does not have a foreign club.? Also these PL riders mostly bolster the EL standard without them it would be even poorer than it is now. Edited July 5, 2014 by sidney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyretrax Posted July 5, 2014 Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 (edited) Top riders in the P.L.,Cook, Lawson,Barker,King etc should only have one season in both league. Fast track riders should get two seasons. By the way I think G the Bee's post is one of those "them and us" posts which E.L. supporters seem to think that us P.L. posters make. Edited July 5, 2014 by tyretrax 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewy Posted July 5, 2014 Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 Only british riders should be allowed to double up 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted July 5, 2014 Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 The EL have only themselves to blame. They've continually mismanaged their side of the shop to the extent that they are outvoted 13-10 and probably soon to be 15-8. If they want more exclusive use of doubling up riders they need to make the riders and their PL promoters offers they can't refuse, and we know that in most cases that is no longer viable, so they are stuck with what they've got. In which case the EL clubs should say no doubling up. The let the riders choose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted July 5, 2014 Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 a comment was made bout riders doubling up "to earn a living"..that cant be a reason for doubling up surely? if this is proper sport, the fans need 7 riders...this system is a major cause to the downfall of speedway..imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulco Posted July 5, 2014 Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 a comment was made bout riders doubling up "to earn a living"..that cant be a reason for doubling up surely? if this is proper sport, the fans need 7 riders...this system is a major cause to the downfall of speedway..imo Seems to be the reason . The doubling up should be a natural progression from PL to EL . A rider should be able to double up for two seasons before being made to choose whether he's an EL rider or a PL rider . And if he chooses the former and he gets dropped , if he drops back down to PL , he stays there for the rest of that season . With the mess we have now , nobody knows who's riding for who . 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted July 5, 2014 Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 as a fan its not our problem about riders earning a living...and i know that may sound harsh, but as a SPORT, a fan wants to follow his/her own team 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowboy cookie returns? Posted July 6, 2014 Report Share Posted July 6, 2014 If a rider can not earn a living from riding in one league then you have answered a key question on the future of speedway in this country. The sport can not survive with the costs that are involved so the costs have to brought down & the riders if need be have to be semi pro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippy22 Posted July 6, 2014 Report Share Posted July 6, 2014 If a rider can not earn a living from riding in one league then you have answered a key question on the future of speedway in this country. The sport can not survive with the costs that are involved so the costs have to brought down & the riders if need be have to be semi pro. You have hit the nail on the head. There are too many riders trying to make a full time living from speedway. Back in the late 1960s and 1970s when crowds were much higher than today, only the top riders were 100% professional. Most of the second strings and reserves in the first division and I think all of the second division riders had other business interests or full or part time jobs. The crowds today are not enough to support so many full time riders. The only way speedway will survive in the long term, is to reduce the riders costs, which would enable the promoters to reduce wages, and also reduce admission costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted July 6, 2014 Report Share Posted July 6, 2014 You have hit the nail on the head. There are too many riders trying to make a full time living from speedway. Back in the late 1960s and 1970s when crowds were much higher than today, only the top riders were 100% professional. Most of the second strings and reserves in the first division and I think all of the second division riders had other business interests or full or part time jobs. The crowds today are not enough to support so many full time riders. The only way speedway will survive in the long term, is to reduce the riders costs, which would enable the promoters to reduce wages, and also reduce admission costs. When Tim Swales was Middlesbrough boss he used to say that riders could earn a weeks wages in a night from speedway - i suppose nowadays that would be 3-500 quid for an average blue collar job (North East, not Dorset or London), should be feasible from crowds of 500 - 1000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted July 6, 2014 Report Share Posted July 6, 2014 when you go into any kind of job in life, you know the wage structure, gambles you take, a speedway rider is no different, you weigh up whether you wanna take that risk. injuries, machine failures are all part of that added risk..a rider doesnt race for me or you in the crowd, he race because its his "choice"..like in most jobs, some are more successful than others... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
springdale Posted July 6, 2014 Report Share Posted July 6, 2014 Why should the PL suffer, the EL have only themselves to blame with there constant mismanagement. Why should the PL suffer, the EL have only themselves to blame with there constant mismanagement. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagpuss Posted July 6, 2014 Report Share Posted July 6, 2014 Why should the PL suffer, the EL have only themselves to blame with there constant mismanagement. Exactly the kind of attitude which will see the sport continue to struggle. The two leagues need to work together better rather than think 'I'm alright Jack'. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted July 6, 2014 Report Share Posted July 6, 2014 (edited) Exactly the kind of attitude which will see the sport continue to struggle. The two leagues need to work together better rather than think 'I'm alright Jack'. not really - in order for speedway to be unified it has to be at an affordable level - EL seem to have no interest in this so your ire is aimed in completely the wrong direction - I'm sure PL would welcome any EL track BUT on its own, affordable, manageable terms. 200k loss at Eastbourne this year remember - god knows how much elsewhere Edited July 6, 2014 by ch958 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagpuss Posted July 6, 2014 Report Share Posted July 6, 2014 I have no doubt there are mismanagement issues and significant losses in the PL too. PL relies on EL riders 'doubling down' too, but it seems a little harsh for the PL to get priority over a doubling up rider when neither of his clubs can claim him as an asset. Would be fairer to divide the clashes down the middle and share the absences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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