Humphrey Appleby Posted June 29, 2014 Report Share Posted June 29, 2014 (edited) No comment on the first one, but I do think that the FIM as the highest authority in global speedway is exactly the entity that can sell the rights. It could be argued they hold the speedway world championships in trust for the national promoting bodies who ultimately develop and employ the competitors. It could also be argued the FIM has a responsibility to ensure their stakeholders benefit from any commercial arrangements with respect to these championships, and to leverage as much income as possible for redistribution amongst said stakeholders. Has speedway as a sport benefited from the FIM signing 21-year deals on their behalf, and where the incumbent commercial rights holders pays just 15% of its revenue for the privilege of using other peoples' riders? Edited June 29, 2014 by Humphrey Appleby 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted June 29, 2014 Report Share Posted June 29, 2014 (edited) e find ourselves where riders are put in because of nationality..could you imagine if all poles were outside the top 8? think you talking bout pts he would of scored! Finished 6th (joint 5th) in the World one season, 9th (joint 7th) in another. Was 2 places short of qualifying one season and had there been no such thing as a wildcard he would have qualified that year. so there's my 3. And he qualified for this year (however dodgy) so thats 4. Edited June 29, 2014 by SCB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted June 29, 2014 Report Share Posted June 29, 2014 to win the old world titles, you had to score 8+ every round, if not...goodbye..how many "favours" do we se now, i repeat, your nationality can get you a spot in the gp now, but thats modern day sport 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruiser McHuge Posted June 29, 2014 Report Share Posted June 29, 2014 Speedway isn't alone in having it's GP's owned by a private company as I think the commercial and TV rights for MotoGP are totally owned by a Spanish company called Dorna...I think they own the rights to World Superbikes as well now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted June 29, 2014 Report Share Posted June 29, 2014 Speedway isn't alone in having it's GP's owned by a private company as I think the commercial and TV rights for MotoGP are totally owned by a Spanish company called Dorna...I think they own the rights to World Superbikes as well now The structure of circuit racing is somewhat different to speedway though. There aren't national leagues racing every week and I'd imagine the top riders make most if not all of their earnings through MotoGP or Superbikes. Those competitions are not disrupting other competitions where riders earns their livings. There are parallels in other sports where top level competitions take competitors away from their domestic employers (in particular cricket), but those employers then benefit from the revenue generated at the top level. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted June 29, 2014 Report Share Posted June 29, 2014 (edited) to win the old world titles, you had to score 8+ every round, if not...goodbye..how many "favours" do we se now, i repeat, your nationality can get you a spot in the gp now, but thats modern day sportYeah, you never hsd riders seeded on basis of nationality in the old days...And never any "favours" in the qualifying rounds either. ..They shouldn't have been the FIM's to sell. :mad: :mad:Would you say world cup football rights belong to fifa or the english fa? e find ourselves where riders are put in because of nationality..could you imagine if all poles were outside the top 8Dont have to imagine at all. Throughout the 80s no continentsl european (except egon) was in the top 30 riders in the world, yet 5 spots were given up every world final to them...Whereas now at most a couple of places are granted on ground s of nationality Edited June 29, 2014 by waihekeaces1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted June 30, 2014 Report Share Posted June 30, 2014 Would you say world cup football rights belong to fifa or the english fa? Legally the World Cup rights belong to FIFA the organisation, but FIFA is a membership association of national federations including the English FA. So the answer is that whilst FIFA can sell or market the World Cup, it should be doing so for the wider benefit of its membership. And despite all the corruption, FIFA does distributed profits out to its members and participating teams which is not what happens with the FIM as far as can be determined. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macinter Posted June 30, 2014 Report Share Posted June 30, 2014 Ever since the Grand Prix have started the attendances have gone down at all Speedway meetings. This also applies to the leagues in Sweden and Poland. Until the leagues completely split from the GP's speedway will suffer. Hardly any of the GP riders make a profit out of it . League matches have to be cancelled because of it The riders should be given a choice either ride for us or clear off to the GP circus. Why should teams lose riders when their stars get injured in GP's. BCI will not pay them any compensation. Oh for the days when anybody could enter the world championship and had three championship rounds with the highest scorers going through to the next stages of the world championship. Last night's Grand Prix under the old system Troy Batchelor would have been the winner. HE won more races that anybody else . Darcy Ward went through the card in Prague yet never even made the final' BCI put nothing into Speedway , they only take money out. , Whilst it is difficult to prove one way or another it is unlikely that the reason domestic speedway attendances have gone down is because of the introduction of the GP's. They were sinking long before that. And would a one off final return to Wembley or even go to the Millennium stadium if we only had it once every four /five /six- (take your choice) - years? It's not so simple and is very unlikely to ever happen anyway. But I do agree that the scoring system for the GP's is questionable when the winner is not necessarily the one with the most points, but that is another issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruiser McHuge Posted June 30, 2014 Report Share Posted June 30, 2014 I don't believe that league attendances have gone down because of the Grand Prix....the GP is more likely to attract people to go and have a look at their local track and see what it's all about....the fact is that there isn't much at many league meetings that will keep on attracting newcomers to come back consistently....blaming the GP's for poor attendances is just the easy option for a basically poor product The growth of the foreign leagues is probably a bigger reason why many top riders don't ride here 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theknow 2 Posted June 30, 2014 Report Share Posted June 30, 2014 All these years the BSPA and the promoters have wasted all the sky cash they got as where is it now. The SKY deal is down a million over the contract term and the BSPA are looking for a sponsor to take over the title for around 200k a year to bring back the lost cash.If a promoter brings in the deal they get a cut. I know as i was asked if we would be interested in it. 200k to sponsor that ??? No thanks !!!! Speedway got themselves into this mess now lets see them get their selves out. Nothing really to do with BSI, BSPA were asked years ago about being involved and more so with Cardiff but turned them down lol. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted June 30, 2014 Report Share Posted June 30, 2014 (edited) The GPs could easily have put people off going to league meetings IMO in three ways, 1) because league mtgs aren't the big event that GPs are obviously 2) people save their money to go to GPs rather than league mtgs 3) people want to see all the top guys racing against one another which they don't get in league mtgs All these years the BSPA and the promoters have wasted all the sky cash they got as where is it now. The SKY deal is down a million over the contract term and the BSPA are looking for a sponsor to take over the title for around 200k a year to bring back the lost cash.If a promoter brings in the deal they get a cut. I know as i was asked if we would be interested in it. 200k to sponsor that ??? No thanks !!!! Speedway got themselves into this mess now lets see them get their selves out. Nothing really to do with BSI, BSPA were asked years ago about being involved and more so with Cardiff but turned them down lol. In what way were they asked to get involved? Of course the GP series stops riders racing here cos basically it's like racing in another league ... The major change that would be good for British Speedway would be to race on a set night or nights imo Edited June 30, 2014 by Trees Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted June 30, 2014 Report Share Posted June 30, 2014 Nothing really to do with BSI, BSPA were asked years ago about being involved and more so with Cardiff but turned them down lol. BSI is a commercial company who aren't going to voluntarily pay more for the rights than they have to, although they look to have got a pretty good deal. It's the FIM who haven't leveraged or redistributed the cash, and locked themselves into a ridiculously long-term deal with BSI. Yes, the BSPA would undoubtedly have wasted any money they'd have got from the SGP, but then so have IMG on golf courses and Olympic Stadium projects (and weren't they also involved in the Ricoh Arena fiasco at some point?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theknow 2 Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 The GPs could easily have put people off going to league meetings IMO in three ways, 1) because league mtgs aren't the big event that GPs are obviously 2) people save their money to go to GPs rather than league mtgs 3) people want to see all the top guys racing against one another which they don't get in league mtgs In what way were they asked to get involved? Of course the GP series stops riders racing here cos basically it's like racing in another league ... The major change that would be good for British Speedway would be to race on a set night or nights imo No one saves there money to go to the gp than go to there regular club. British speedway is on its knees. Look at Birmingham, attendances, its a sport which is not popular. No young new blood coming through the turnstiles. BSI wanted to work with BSPA when they first started but the door was shut in there face. BSI is a commercial company who aren't going to voluntarily pay more for the rights than they have to, although they look to have got a pretty good deal. It's the FIM who haven't leveraged or redistributed the cash, and locked themselves into a ridiculously long-term deal with BSI. Yes, the BSPA would undoubtedly have wasted any money they'd have got from the SGP, but then so have IMG on golf courses and Olympic Stadium projects (and weren't they also involved in the Ricoh Arena fiasco at some point?). Quite a big company IMG and speedway just a small part of it. Any FIM deal is quite long in its duration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 Why do you say nobody saves their money for gps rather than league racing, I reckon they do! You do for one :-p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oleoleole Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 Chris van Straaten is the guest speaker at the NSSC tonight. Maybe he will be able to answer these questions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 (edited) Quite a big company IMG and speedway just a small part of it. Yes, but BSI is owned by IMG's UK subsidiary who lost millions on other ill-fated ventures in the past few years. It looked like the board was sacked. Any FIM deal is quite long in its duration. It's reasonable to have long-term deals where substantial investments in capital and venues need to be made, and where there are long cycles between events such as for World Cups etc. It's quite another to do it for mickey mouse sports that are reusing existing venues year-after-year, buying television production facilities off-the-shelf, and where it's really only the track preparation that requires any significant investment. A 10-year deal would be more than fair in speedway, yet the FIM is locked into something like a 21-year deal with BSI which is crazy when there's potentially other promoters out there. Maybe the OneSport clowns wouldn't be any better, but there should at least be the opportunity for others to enter the market. Edited July 1, 2014 by Humphrey Appleby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f-s-p Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 (edited) Yes, but BSI is owned by IMG's UK subsidiary who lost millions on other ill-fated ventures in the past few years. It looked like the board was sacked.It's reasonable to have long-term deals where substantial investments in capital and venues need to be made, and where there are long cycles between events such as for World Cups etc. It's quite another to do it for mickey mouse sports that are reusing existing venues year-after-year, buying television production facilities off-the-shelf, and where it's really only the track preparation that requires any significant investment.A 10-year deal would be more than fair in speedway, yet the FIM is locked into something like a 21-year deal with BSI which is crazy when there's potentially other promoters out there. Maybe the OneSport clowns wouldn't be any better, but there should at least be the opportunity for others to enter the market. Buy BSI from IMG and it's (SGP) yours. Edited July 1, 2014 by f-s-p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 Buy BSI from IMG and it's (SGP) yours. Would be too much of risky investment nowadays with FIM Europe sanctioning competing series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f-s-p Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 Would be too much of risky investment nowadays with FIM Europe sanctioning competing series. In all honesty... When is it not a risky business owning a sports series? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 Legally the World Cup rights belong to FIFA the organisation, but FIFA is a membership association of national federations including the English FA. So the answer is that whilst FIFA can sell or market the World Cup, it should be doing so for the wider benefit of its membership. And despite all the corruption, FIFA does distributed profits out to its members and participating teams which is not what happens with the FIM as far as can be determined.Agreed. So the issue really isnt that the rights weren't the fims to sell, but how they distribute (or fail to distribute) those funds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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