stevebrum Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 it didn't last long because the 1st div tracks shafted the 2nd div now the pl is arguably the strongest division maybe the pl should invite tracks to join from the el rather than a merger - that way the more succesful business model of the pl would prevail yes some big names won't race here under those circumstances big deal I don't think he means strongest in terms of teams mate, i think what he means is strongest in terms of the actual league set up. Stronger set up and solidity maybe. Strength wise not even close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hel'n'Back Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 Birmingham should have stayed in the Premier League in my opinion 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyhoundp Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 (edited) Lets take a quick look at this, Succesful Speedway Teams in London ? None, Succesful Teams in Birmingham ? None, Succesful Teams in Manchester ?, None... Competition for the leisure pound, firstly all those areas have multiple football teams, though that is primarily a winter Sport, but they have lots of other attractions to compete with speedway,and on the whole big ethnic populations, and without being racist but how many foreigners do we see at Speedway ?. Well supported Teams; Kings Lynn, Cradley Heath, Poole, Somerset...None of them have Large well supported Football Teams, and so far as i am aware, no other well supported local Sport, other attractions well i guess the local Darts, Pool or Skittles or even Bingo night might be considered.. Plus we have the way of life itself has changed, many more people eat out, buy a takeaway rather than cook at home, working patterns have changed, rather than the old 8 till 5, its usually the dreaded continental shift pattern in manufacturing now, and that will effect EVERY Speedway team. Then we have the pandering to SKY with changing race nights, if you arent sure you can see every meeting, will you buy a season ticket ?. Lots of these will affect Birmingham Speedway, and not in a positive way.. the only way to get youngsters in (those still at school) will be to admit them free with a paying adult.. buy thats for the long haul.. As for the GRA owners Risk Capital (Galliard Homes), they are not interested in Speedway far from it, they would much prefer to build houses on Perry Barr, its a good job we have that lease with Birmingham City Council. So all in all not a lot of positives for Birmingham Speedway Im afraid. Edited June 27, 2014 by greyhoundp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skidder1 Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 In reply to Weatherwatcher. Tony Mole had no option but to use PB to bring speedway back to Birmingham. Attempts to return to the wheels site were repeatedly denied by the people who ran the place. Plans were drawn up for a track, training track and a museum. The whole lot was kicked out because they considered the speedway as a profit making venture, forgetting that Incarace ran the stocks at the venue. An alternative site was found at Salford Circus, where the old velodrome was left derelict. Noise tests were done, but the site was just too close to residential falts to have a chance of being given PP. Perry Barr was ideal, with a ready made stadium all that was required was the construction of a track, pits and a few bits and bobs and voila. The danger was always whether the public would still be interested in the sport after being absent from the city for 21 years. Sadly it looks like they aren't, well in sufficient numbers anyway. It's interesting that Cradley can attract decent crowds with NL racing whilst Brum struggles to get the punters in with the "superior" EL version. This tells as much about the differences between the 2 areas as it does about the state of speedway in this country. Mention Cradley Heath to people and most will ask if the speedway is still there. Mention Birmingham and most people will mention several sports before the sport gets a mention. When Brum reopened, I knew at least 20 fans at work who were at the first meeting. This dwindled down to a dozen over the following weeks until it levelled out at 10 over that season, staying constant over the rest of the PL years. Now, I only know 2 people who go to PB, and even that it isn't to every meeting. The reasons they walked away are pretty varied. from growing out of love with modern speedway to a dislike for the venue, with a few others in between. It's sad, especially after the hard work of Brian Buck et al to bring the Brummies back. But if the cold hard fact is that if relatively few people have the desire to support speedway in the city, then there can't be many more things any promotion can do to change that, except to take steps to make up the cash shortfall, which would really only be a short term fix. If there's someone out there with a magic wand who can make speedway in Birmingham viable again, the great. Nothing could be better than a return to the crowd levels of the first years and the nights when fans were praying Jason Lyons would miss the gate (unless it was a last heat decider of course!), but I really honestly cannot think of anything at all that could get the good citizens of the 2nd city off their backsides and into Perry Barr stadium on a Wednesday night, I really can't. As a matter of interest, how much do Cradley charge for admission? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
25yearfan Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 (edited) In fairness to speedway in London, Wimbledon speedway was on the up and making a profit when they had the rug pulled from underneath them in 2005 by the infamous (anti)greyhound racing association. Belle Vue while not the force they were when they were at Hyde Road, still attract viable crowds despite running on a bad night, and have never shut down with a new stadium potentially on the way, so while I wouldn't call the recent history of Belle Vue speedway a complete success, its certainly far from a failure. Ask the opinions of the many fans of defunct tracks (I'm one Norwich Stars) if they'd like the recent history of Belle Vue at their sadly departed track! Your right about the smaller sport of speedway getting lost in the bigger population areas. In theory London, Birmingham, Manchester, Bristol (although I think a new Bristol speedway track would probably be well supported), Glasgow, Liverpool, Nottingham, Cardiff and others should be able to support speedway teams better than rural places but in reality it doesn't work like that. A lot of the populations of the big Cities are ethnic, of whom nearly all have no interest in speedway and there is much more choice of leisure activities. The answer to Birminghams problems aren't clear though its obvious that a stronger promotional set up with better PR, commercial skills and speedway nous would help matters, though its wrong to be over critical of Alan Phillips cause not many of us would be able to put in the money to speedway that he has the last few years. With the number of tracks in the West Midlands connarbation and Leicester not far of either, the respective tracks need every aspect of the set up right, which I don't think has been the case at Perry Bar for a while. Birminghams competing against the long running set up at Wolves which is one of the most professional speedways in this Country while Coventry remains a hotbed with some of the biggest crowds anywhere. Add to this the new well run vibrant Leicester speedway where the novelty factor is still strong helped immensely by running on the more fan friendly Saturday night and the reemergance of Cradley speedway with their fanatical large support and its not difficult to see why Birmingham being less than 100% is struggling. In terms of the venue, Perry Bar was the home of Birmingham speedway during their glory years of the 1940's and 50's at the same venue while the mainly successful 1971-83 spell was at the old Ladbrokes stadium across the road where the one stop is now. Interesting to note that during the Brummies 40's, 50's era, Wolves and Cradley were shut down for much of that time and the Brummies themselves had folded by the late 50's. Did the Brummies in this time attract a decent % of their crowds from the then non speedway staging Cradley and Wolves areas, both of whom aren't very far away? During the 70's, 80's Ladbrokes era the Brummies were mighty strong in the early 70's when in the 2nd Division then after moving into the British League struggled for many years, only getting strong after signing Hans Nielsen from Wolves who themselves began a decline that ended up with Monmore Green not staging speedway in the 1982-83 seasons. When Birmingham went National League racing at the Wheels complex in 1985-86 the basic venue struggled for crowds in an rough area the other side of the City from the Perry Bar heartland. Had this venture been a success in a time when crowds were generally bigger than they are today then it wouldn't have shut. It must also be noted that during this Wheels era, the promotion were actively looking to move the team back to Perry Bar. It got to the stage at the end of 1986 where it was either move to Perry Bar or close completely. Unfortunately the then owner of Perry Bar didn't want speedway despite the Wheels promotion wanting to finance a move back and then soon after in the late 80's Tony Mole also tried to reopen Perry Bar but was also rebuffed. The present era of Birmingham speedway at Perry Bar from 2007- present would of likely been less successful at the Wheels complex going on the evidence of the 84 open license and 85-86 National League era at the same venue? Though I still maintain that the Wheels complex being in a central location would be ideal for a National speedway training centre with big and mini tracks and possibly 3rd Division and/or development League with amateur racing. The evidence I've gone through shows that while speedway racing is being staged at the same time at Birmingham, Wolves and Cradley (albeit at Wolves at the moment) then the weakest set up out of Wolves and Birmingham will likely struggle to keep going cause Cradley will always attract big crowds. Presently Wolves speedway is strong and well established so its probably not going to be them. Venue wise I think Perry Bars Birmingham speedways best hope of doing well. I think the other Greyhound track in Birmingham, 1930's speedway venue Hall Green could support speedway in a similar manner to Perry Bar but this was looked at during the 1987-2006 defunct spell and its close proximity to local housing would likely make this a no goer. Its been said by many West Midlands speedway fans, going back to the early 70's, that it was more interesting when the area had a team in the 2nd Division to go to, and why would you go to Birmingham to see teams you saw at Wolves, Cradley or Coventry? All this indicates that the present way forward for Birmingham speedway is too obviously try and finish this season, hopefully get new owners who can turn things around and drop into the Premier League where they could be joined by local rivals Cradley who've indicated they may have to leave the National League if they win it this season. Surely bumper crowds at Birmingham V Cradley matches in the cheaper Premier League would help ensure that speedway at Perry Bar would be viable? Fingers crossed Birmingham speedway can survive! Edited June 28, 2014 by 25yearfan 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyhoundp Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 As a matter of interest, how much do Cradley charge for admission? ADMISSION DETAILS General admission details for the Heathens. 2014 ADMISSION PRICES (Pay at the turnstile) Adults - £11.00 Concessions - £8.00 Children (aged 15 and under) - £2.00 Children (aged under 5) - FREE Programmes - £2.50 All admission enquries to: info@cradleyheathens.co Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brummie Kev Posted June 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 (edited) Brummies v Leicester on Wednesday is off http://www.speedwaygb.co/news.php?extend.25856.2 Edited June 28, 2014 by Brummie Kev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyhoundp Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 Brummies v Leicester on Wednesday is off http://www.speedwaygb.co/news.php?extend.25856.2 Im thinking this is more than likely a Lockout by the GRA due to the alleged unpaid rent monies. I really wish Phillips had not let it get to this stage, there is every possibility now, that we have seen the last of Speedway at Perry Barr.. obviously Phillips struggled on hoping for a miracle for as long as he could, he obviously bluffed and blustered his way along until last week, but there comes a time when debts become due, and Birmingham Speedway reached that point last week. I only hope something can be rescued as far as the landlords the GRA are concerned, otherwise this could be terminal for Speedway in the 2nd city. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weatherwatcher Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 What you said about the thnic minorities in and around Birmimingham must ring true for most speedway clubs. Leicester is also one City with a large ethnic minority but I can't ever recall seeing any of them at any of the Lions races I have gone to. Is there any track in the country that has a large or even on ethnic minrity family that goes there to follow the speedway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirio Barre Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 I believe PP or the agreement with stadium owners says the stadium has to be returned to how it was in 2006, should speedway stop at the facility so the track should be ripped up and replaced with a full centre green and all speedway related material removed. There’s another possible big bill for Mr. Phillips to contemplate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil The Ace Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 (edited) Tony mole as withdrawn his interest Doesn't sound good to me that. I wish you all the best Edited June 28, 2014 by Phil The Ace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur cross Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 Brummie Kev's opening post on this thread mentioned a lockout last Wednesday, presumably when some of the speedway track staff wanted to tidy up any loose ends on the Brummies' usual home day even though the team were actually at fellow-Wednesday track Poole that night. That rang almighty alarm bells with me because once the GRA take a dim view of any speedway-tenant's finances, it's very difficult to swing the GRA back onside with Oxford's experiences a few years ago a prime example. I don't know any of the nitty-gritty of Alan Phillips's dealings with the local GRA management at Perry Barr, particularly whether there's been any negotiation (or at least an attempt to negotiate) for any reduced weekly stadium-rent for the Brummies compared to any previous agreed deal by all parties. But you can be fairly certain the GRA won't allow much (probably any) speedway access to Perry Barr by any new long-term promoters of the Brummies (or even a stop-gap promotion simply aiming to see out the current season) until the GRA are satisfied they've been paid up for what Phillips's Brummies have already used. It wouldn't surprise me if Phillips's most dreadful mistake in all of this is that he's vainly battled on at least a few weeks too long and, therefore, made it desperately harder for anyone else to salvage the situation when his running of the Brummies hit the almost-inevitable skids. For those who haven't steadily worked their way through the lengthy threads about Oxford or Wimbledon Stadium on this forum's General Discussions chapter for plenty of info about how the GRA views speedway, I'll simply point out on this thread that the Brummies' stadium-rent (as well as any profit from speedway fans buying the stadium's food and drink) is pocket-money for the GRA within that stadium's general accounts. Perry Barr has two BAGS greyhound meetings each week (Sunday & Tuesday) all-year-round and the annual betting-shop tv-fees those meetings generate probably amount to more than 10 times what the Brummies would pay for a season's worth of speedway rents ... equally, the greyhound crowd having a big social night out are far more inclined to spend their money on the stadium's food and drink (especially the drink) compared to the Brummies' fans. History has shown the GRA will only embrace speedway if it doesn't cause them any hassle (or at least the profits outweigh any hassles) ... anyone on here hopefully suggesting "some rent is better than no rent" won't get very far against that sort of company policy. Good luck to everyone trying to rescue the Brummies' situation but the way it's finally exploded sends out horrible signals for any happy ending. On a wider basis, when will speedway finally learn that its wretchedly cavalier attitude to settling up debts is bad enough among its own folk but utterly disastrous when it affects businesses outside speedway who, quite rightly, demand far greater financial discipline ? 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyd Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 What you said about the thnic minorities in and around Birmimingham must ring true for most speedway clubs. Leicester is also one City with a large ethnic minority but I can't ever recall seeing any of them at any of the Lions races I have gone to. Is there any track in the country that has a large or even on ethnic minrity family that goes there to follow the speedway. Slightly off track from Birmingham Speedway but years ago in the 1970s didnt White City in london who were struggling for local support and being based within a large ethnic minority offer equipment and track time to a ethnic person to try and boost support from the local population? I believe the offer (if I remember right) ended with the interest of the local Race Relations Board as it was then. The only way I can see of any club trying to tap into the local ethnic population without problems is adverts and posters in areas in the local lingo (ie other than english). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitar_art Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 With the news that Tony Mole has withdrawn his interest in Birmingham speedway I can come to no other conclusion than this is the end of Birmingham speedway. A small part of me is hoping this is wrong but deep down I know this is the end. This is the end of my speedway road too. I couldn't support another team when this happened before and I wont be able to now. Its just not in me to do so. So thank you to all the supporters from all of the different teams that have visited Perry Barr over the years since 2007. Thank you to all off the riders that have ridden in the yellow and red during that time. It was great while it lasted. I haven't joined in with the vilification of Alan Phillips that has gone on, on this and the Brummies forum. Most of it unjustified IMO. However it is a fact that the name of Phillips will forever now be associated with the demise of Birmingham Speedway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil The Ace Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 With the news that Tony Mole has withdrawn his interest in Birmingham speedway I can come to no other conclusion than this is the end of Birmingham speedway. A small part of me is hoping this is wrong but deep down I know this is the end. This is the end of my speedway road too. I couldn't support another team when this happened before and I wont be able to now. Its just not in me to do so. So thank you to all the supporters from all of the different teams that have visited Perry Barr over the years since 2007. Thank you to all off the riders that have ridden in the yellow and red during that time. It was great while it lasted. I haven't joined in with the vilification of Alan Phillips that has gone on, on this and the Brummies forum. Most of it unjustified IMO. However it is a fact that the name of Phillips will forever now be associated with the demise of Birmingham Speedway. Come on now mate. It's not over till its over. Yes it's a tough time for your selves but until it's over please don't give up. Birmingham speedway need you like you need Birmingham speedway 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalSin Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 Feel for all the Birmingham supporters I really do. And this is yet another reminder to every other fan out there, that we're all on very shaky ground these days as there just doesn't seem to be the fan, or financial support of years gone by. Sad times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProudtobeaBrummie Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 I was just starting a your city needs you campaign on weds I've spoke to some mini local celebs last couple of days and they were gonna come down and back it too gutted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Sweetman Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 With the news that Tony Mole has withdrawn his interest in Birmingham speedway I can come to no other conclusion than this is the end of Birmingham speedway. A small part of me is hoping this is wrong but deep down I know this is the end. This is the end of my speedway road too. I couldn't support another team when this happened before and I wont be able to now. Its just not in me to do so. So thank you to all the supporters from all of the different teams that have visited Perry Barr over the years since 2007. Thank you to all off the riders that have ridden in the yellow and red during that time. It was great while it lasted. I haven't joined in with the vilification of Alan Phillips that has gone on, on this and the Brummies forum. Most of it unjustified IMO. However it is a fact that the name of Phillips will forever now be associated with the demise of Birmingham Speedway. Lets not forget, if the rumours are true. Alan Phillips has put nearly half a million pounds into this venture since he took over the licence. Think its hard to blame him for all the shortcomings that have taken place in his time there,you have to feel for the bloke,hes done his best to make a success of what was always going to be an uphill task. Tony Mole has no doubt seen the figures from attendances at Perry Barr,and just dosent think its a worthwhile proposition. Absolutely heartbroken for the Brummie fans if this is the end. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 ADMISSION DETAILS General admission details for the Heathens. 2014 ADMISSION PRICES (Pay at the turnstile) Adults - £11.00 Concessions - £8.00 Children (aged 15 and under) - £2.00 Children (aged under 5) - FREE Programmes - £2.50 All admission enquries to: info@cradleyheathens.co And that would rise no doubt if rumours are true of elevation next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 So am I thinking there is another option that Cradley move in? Expensive, yes, but at least the venue would not be lost..... ? A very sad day if Birmingham close after all the hard work we put in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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