John Leslie Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 I'll tell you what is wrong with Elite League speedway, it's no longer Elite, you turn on the Swedish League on television to see Greg Hancock Freddie Lingren etc and all the top stars of World speedway, these top riders we no longer see on the tracks in the UK. Why do people trot out this nonsense? I'll tell you what's wrong with Premier League football... Messi, Ronaldo, Iniesta, Ribery, Xavi, Ibrahamovic, Robben, Neymar, Benzema...We don't see these top stars of world football in the English Premier League. Yet nigh on 80,000 turn up at Old Trafford to watch Cleverley, Carrick, Kagawa etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABS Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 Why do people trot out this nonsense? I'll tell you what's wrong with Premier League football... Messi, Ronaldo, Iniesta, Ribery, Xavi, Ibrahamovic, Robben, Neymar, Benzema...We don't see these top stars of world football in the English Premier League. Yet nigh on 80,000 turn up at Old Trafford to watch Cleverley, Carrick, Kagawa etc. Yep - eat rubbish, a million flies can't be wrong, or even 70,000 muppets. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.V 72 Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 Sadly to me its down to the area that the clubs are based Birmingham provide Elite league racing and hardly any fans turn up hard to work out unless there is little interest in the area then no matter what league you are in or what team you put out hardly anyone will turn up. Then on the other hand Cradley provide National league racing and get great crowds.This says to me that its not so much about what league you are in or over a season watching the best riders that this country has to offer its all about being lucky enougth to be in an area that has an interest in the sport It will be interesting to see if Cradley move up a league or so if it makes much difference to the size of the gate. Just a question to Leicester fans has moving up to the elite league put many fans on the gate ? I really hope that Brum can get a promotor in that really knows his stuff and can pull things around for the club and prove my thoughts wrong it will be a sad day for the sport if we lose another club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weatherwatcher Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 As a Leicester fan. No it has not increased the amount of people going through the gate. If anything the fans are slowly drifting away. Most of it is down to moans from the dfans about poor racing, with the riders going around the track in a long drawn out line with very little in the way of overtaking, but I think this is the same at most tracks with the way they are set up and the way bikes have changed. You can see this here and in the leauges abroad so it is not something just that happens at Liecester. Another note about newspapers. I live 25 miles from Leicester and our local paper, the Burton Mail, when I asked them to do a feture on the speedway, they refused point blank to put anything even a small column to let people in this area know about the speedway. But the back page is the same every day going on about Burton Albion, how many people actually read this as there are only a few hundred people go to support them. I am sure it would not have hurt to put a few lines in the the sports page, but then they would have run out of room to carry articles about Albion that no one reads. Or is in the slitest bit interested in reading. I hope that Birmingham manage to carry on the future at the moment looks very bleak for them and after coming back again, if they go this time will they bother to come back again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OGT Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 As a Leicester fan. No it has not increased the amount of people going through the gate. If anything the fans are slowly drifting away. Most of it is down to moans from the dfans about poor racing, with the riders going around the track in a long drawn out line with very little in the way of overtaking, but I think this is the same at most tracks with the way they are set up and the way bikes have changed. You can see this here and in the leauges abroad so it is not something just that happens at Liecester. Another note about newspapers. I live 25 miles from Leicester and our local paper, the Burton Mail, when I asked them to do a feture on the speedway, they refused point blank to put anything even a small column to let people in this area know about the speedway. But the back page is the same every day going on about Burton Albion, how many people actually read this as there are only a few hundred people go to support them. I am sure it would not have hurt to put a few lines in the the sports page, but then they would have run out of room to carry articles about Albion that no one reads. Or is in the slitest bit interested in reading. I hope that Birmingham manage to carry on the future at the moment looks very bleak for them and after coming back again, if they go this time will they bother to come back again. TBF Burton's average crowd was 2,720 for the 13/14 season. I get what you're saying but that's more than a few hundred. Remember too that more people are interested in football, even though they don't attend games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spencebel Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 My heart goes out to all the Birmingham fans... Hang on in there. Keeping my fingers crossed for you. Hope you have some good news very soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 The quicker GB goes to 1 league and regroup getting rid of all the money grabbing Big Names using the EL for practice and pocket money the better. One Big league with evenly matched teams and watching the same 7 riders each week might just tempt fans back.I would like to know what some of the big names are taking out the sport money wise in GB. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weatherwatcher Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 Found this article on GRA on wikipedia. It makes for some preety dire reading. Can't understand why Birmimingham ever got involed with a group like this. There must have been far better options for them to have brought racing back to the City than to have to go to a group of people that can't even make thier own opperation a success. Risk Capital Partners takeover In 2005 GRA Ltd was sold by Wembley PLC to venture capitalists Risk Capital Partners Ltd for £50 million. The Managing Director Clive Feltham remained at the helm after the takeover. As a result of the takeover GRA have been in a perilous position after their parent company revealed that Galliard Homes have a financial interest in the group. This could spell the end of GRA as a greyhound operator. In 2009 the Portsmouth Stadium track was sold by Risk Capital to pay down debt. It closed the same year. Then on December 29, 2012 the GRA closed Oxford. Wimbledon is subject to planning permission for housing and the GRA have struggled to keep up with other greyhound operators having to cut costs like prize money The company continue to struggle under parent company Risk Capital. Same as I said above the sport can continue without the big names. If that is you that the fans go along to see then the sport is in a poor way. I would rather go and see good competative racing anyday. I am sure that the EL and PL will have to come together in the near future to survive. It could work with a North South slpit with the two leagues and then at the end of the season a match between the top clubs to see who comes out on top. Lets have good racing that will bring back the fans even it it has to do it with all the top GP stars. I for one would go just to see some great team racing again. Instead of one top rider blazing off to the front to make sure his averages stay high with no regard to his team mate as long as he wins that is all that matters to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruiser McHuge Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 We had one league before didn't we and it didn't last long...but teams were stronger then so presumably more expensive to assemble...maybe it would work these days As for the Elite not being the Elite...well it is still the top league of the country so what's in a name ?....the ice hockey is the Elite League isn't it yet nobody would ever call it the NHL equivalent ! I just think that speedway at club level is dying and there are so many other attractions these days to stop people going and I can't see that changing to be honest, so maybe the time is to forget about the multi league riders costing a fortune and meaning people never know whether matches are on week to week or even who is riding for them and go down the route of cheaper settled teams that ride every week and that supporters can start identifying with ....it might not do England favours internationally but it might just create local community teams that the are identify with more and want to see Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman2006 Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 (edited) Found this article on GRA on wikipedia. It makes for some preety dire reading. Can't understand why Birmimingham ever got involed with a group like this. There must have been far better options for them to have brought racing back to the City than to have to go to a group of people that can't even make thier own opperation a success. Risk Capital Partners takeover In 2005 GRA Ltd was sold by Wembley PLC to venture capitalists Risk Capital Partners Ltd for £50 million. The Managing Director Clive Feltham remained at the helm after the takeover. As a result of the takeover GRA have been in a perilous position after their parent company revealed that Galliard Homes have a financial interest in the group. This could spell the end of GRA as a greyhound operator. In 2009 the Portsmouth Stadium track was sold by Risk Capital to pay down debt. It closed the same year. Then on December 29, 2012 the GRA closed Oxford. Wimbledon is subject to planning permission for housing and the GRA have struggled to keep up with other greyhound operators having to cut costs like prize money The company continue to struggle under parent company Risk Capital. Same as I said above the sport can continue without the big names. If that is you that the fans go along to see then the sport is in a poor way. I would rather go and see good competative racing anyday. I am sure that the EL and PL will have to come together in the near future to survive. It could work with a North South slpit with the two leagues and then at the end of the season a match between the top clubs to see who comes out on top. Lets have good racing that will bring back the fans even it it has to do it with all the top GP stars. I for one would go just to see some great team racing again. Instead of one top rider blazing off to the front to make sure his averages stay high with no regard to his team mate as long as he wins that is all that matters to him. How many of our stadiums are ran by the GRA? As for your comment re the top boys not coming back to the EL, you try telling some of our lot on our forum who want them back. They live in cloud cookoo land. It ain't gonna happen. The only way forward imo is two leagues north and south or two race nights as somebody else also touched on, Wednesday and Thursday. then, you have no restrictions from abroad or the GP's., then, you might, have a chance of pulling some of the top boys back. Yes id love to see Greg Hancock ride for us again, but there would probably need to be a lot of compromise in many ways for all that to happen. Edited June 27, 2014 by Starman2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 We had one league before didn't we and it didn't last long...but teams were stronger then so presumably more expensive to assemble...maybe it would work these days it didn't last long because the 1st div tracks shafted the 2nd div now the pl is arguably the strongest division maybe the pl should invite tracks to join from the el rather than a merger - that way the more succesful business model of the pl would prevail yes some big names won't race here under those circumstances big deal 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman2006 Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 it didn't last long because the 1st div tracks shafted the 2nd div now the pl is arguably the strongest division maybe the pl should invite tracks to join from the el rather than a merger - that way the more succesful business model of the pl would prevail yes some big names won't race here under those circumstances big deal PL is the strongest division, and i maintain we should have a BSPA chairman for the EL, and a Chairman for the PL. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 (edited) I'll tell you what is wrong with Elite League speedway, it's no longer Elite, you turn on the Swedish League on television to see Greg Hancock Freddie Lingren etc and all the top stars of World speedway, these top riders we no longer see on the tracks in the UK. When Emil came to ride for Coventry the gates were increased. When Coventry rode at Birmingham with Emil in the team increased their gate by 900 I am reliably informed, speaks for itself. Incidentally due to stupid speedway regulations Emil was riding in Russia the next home meeting and our No 1 was not Emil but Todd Kurtz not a suitable replacement, speaks for itself people want to watch the best and vote with their feet which us their privilege. What's going on is self defeating and explains that Elite should mean the BEST. I must say that as a semi regular at Birmingham I was amazed this season at the absence of supporters and predicted the writing was on the wall. Come on you Brummies you waited and protested for along time to get the Second City back into Live Speedway don't let it fade away without a wimper. The Elite League needs you as does Speedway as a whole!. What do mean it no longer Elite ...is there another league in the uk that has stronger teams ? Elite does mean the best and at this present time the best teams in the uk are all in the Elite League hence the name ....Tell me do the premier riders ride in the Premier league ? In Football do Messi and Co all play in the uk Premier league or is the name based on having the best teams in the uk . Your plan to have better riders and get bigger crowds sounds great the only trouble is that we already that and teams still went bust just like they do in Poland and Sweden . Edited June 27, 2014 by orion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman2006 Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 (edited) What do mean it no longer Elite ...is there another league in the uk that has stronger teams ? Elite does mean the best and at this present time the best teams in the uk are all in the Elite League hence the name ....Tell me do the premier riders ride in the Premier league ? In Football do Messi and Co all play in the uk Premier league or is the name based on having the best teams in the uk . Your plan to have better riders and get bigger crowds sounds great the only trouble is that we already that and teams still went bust just like they do in Poland and Sweden . I don't think he means strongest in terms of teams mate, i think what he means is strongest in terms of the actual league set up. Edited June 27, 2014 by Starman2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 I don't think he means strongest in terms of teams mate, i think what he means is strongest in terms of the actual league set up. No he said the Elite is not the Elite anymore ...As I said it's still the top league in the uk .. hence the name . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruiser McHuge Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 The Elite League is still stronger than the Premier League , no way is the PL the higher standard....racing quality maybe but not rider quality. It is probably easier for the draft reserves to score points in the Elite than it would be for them to score in the Premier, but you put a Premier League heat leader into a heat leader spot in the Elite then he wouldn't get a fraction of what they would score in the Premier so the actual standards cannot be remotely compared It's then a matter of opinion as to whether fans would prefer to see the bigger more expensive names or a cheaper more settled team 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 The Elite League is still stronger than the Premier League , no way is the PL the higher standard....racing quality maybe well that'll do me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OGT Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 (edited) In reply to Weatherwatcher. Tony Mole had no option but to use PB to bring speedway back to Birmingham. Attempts to return to the wheels site were repeatedly denied by the people who ran the place. Plans were drawn up for a track, training track and a museum. The whole lot was kicked out because they considered the speedway as a profit making venture, forgetting that Incarace ran the stocks at the venue. An alternative site was found at Salford Circus, where the old velodrome was left derelict. Noise tests were done, but the site was just too close to residential falts to have a chance of being given PP. Perry Barr was ideal, with a ready made stadium all that was required was the construction of a track, pits and a few bits and bobs and voila. The danger was always whether the public would still be interested in the sport after being absent from the city for 21 years. Sadly it looks like they aren't, well in sufficient numbers anyway. It's interesting that Cradley can attract decent crowds with NL racing whilst Brum struggles to get the punters in with the "superior" EL version. This tells as much about the differences between the 2 areas as it does about the state of speedway in this country. Mention Cradley Heath to people and most will ask if the speedway is still there. Mention Birmingham and most people will mention several sports before the sport gets a mention. When Brum reopened, I knew at least 20 fans at work who were at the first meeting. This dwindled down to a dozen over the following weeks until it levelled out at 10 over that season, staying constant over the rest of the PL years. Now, I only know 2 people who go to PB, and even that it isn't to every meeting. The reasons they walked away are pretty varied. from growing out of love with modern speedway to a dislike for the venue, with a few others in between. It's sad, especially after the hard work of Brian Buck et al to bring the Brummies back. But if the cold hard fact is that if relatively few people have the desire to support speedway in the city, then there can't be many more things any promotion can do to change that, except to take steps to make up the cash shortfall, which would really only be a short term fix. If there's someone out there with a magic wand who can make speedway in Birmingham viable again, the great. Nothing could be better than a return to the crowd levels of the first years and the nights when fans were praying Jason Lyons would miss the gate (unless it was a last heat decider of course!), but I really honestly cannot think of anything at all that could get the good citizens of the 2nd city off their backsides and into Perry Barr stadium on a Wednesday night, I really can't. Edited June 27, 2014 by OGT 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman2006 Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 The Elite League is still stronger than the Premier League , no way is the PL the higher standard....racing quality maybe but not rider quality. It is probably easier for the draft reserves to score points in the Elite than it would be for them to score in the Premier, but you put a Premier League heat leader into a heat leader spot in the Elite then he wouldn't get a fraction of what they would score in the Premier so the actual standards cannot be remotely compared It's then a matter of opinion as to whether fans would prefer to see the bigger more expensive names or a cheaper more settled team Of course the EL is still the stronger league from a rider point of view, but the PL, is the stronger league from a set up point of view. There is still a good jump from the PL to the EL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruiser McHuge Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 I suppose Birmingham is a big city with lots of counter attractions whereas I would never have heard of the place called Cradley Heath if it wasn't for the speedway team , so I suppose locals feel a sense of pride and community in the name of Cradley Heath being known countrywide and will support that, whereas Birmingham is just big city Birmingham You would expect a big city to attract big numbers purely due to the population but it never works that way...it hasn't worked in London...Birmingham is obviously struggling....it seems smaller areas may attract the local community to support the local community team and if any teams prosper then they do rather than big cities 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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