TesarRacing Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 How much does a promoter's variable costs relating to crowd numbers change the more people come in though? Considering the vast majority don't own their stadiums and pay a fixed rent, with policing and stewarding costs not an issue, then not much I doubt, so you could let people in for £10 without the costs changing as long as you got enough people through the gates. The real point is the promoters either can't, won't or don't believe that they are capable of marketing Speedway even at £10, and that they'd rather stick with what they know at £15, which for most is a loss but a predictable one at least. You can't just charge £10 without changing something else it would be financial suicide. If you do the maths you would have to 'let' a hell of a lot of supporters in at £10 and what ever you say about Alan Phillips regarding promoting speedway, he knows a bit about finance and he knew the supporters would not attend. Surely he would have done it otherwise rather than closing down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 I have the utmost respect for Buster, our promoter, who works tirelessly to make speedway at Lynn a success. Over the years he has progressed with work and improvements to make the stadium more appealing. He has a reliable fans base who will supports whatever., But not knowing any facts or figures, it is obvious, to a layman, the crowds numbers are not enough on there own to make it a viable business. The books have to be balanced up with many sponsorship deals . If that assessment is correct, than the facts are indeed sad, and it is little wonder clubs are closing down. The real issue here is the lack of 'Bums on Seats' If the sport is surviving on sponsorship alone, It won't be long before those sponsors will decide enough is enough, and more clubs will follow suit. Following on from what I posted (1244) about Buster, I believe he tries to do it right. Yes, he owns the stadium, and continues to improve it. at a extra cost of his promotions. He has done tremendously well acquiring lots of local sponsors which all helps to provide the realism of speedway entertainment. But the point I'm trying to make is , a lot of those sponsors, do so solely, because of Buster and this business interests and not because they have any interest in Speedway in particular. Probably if speedway was run on a more Professional Business level, than probably more Companies would come on board to sponsor the sport itself........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) Having just read about 950,000 tickets for the Rugly World Cup 2015 attracting 5 Million applicants and that tickets at ALL prices at 23 out of the 43 matches (@ up to £350 each) were oversubscribed it kind of points towards people having the money to spend where the "product" is right. People obviously don't think that the Speedway product is right no matter what the admission price. They would have to pay me to go to that :-) Following on from what I posted (1244) about Buster, I believe he tries to do it right. Yes, he owns the stadium, and continues to improve it. at a extra cost of his promotions. He has done tremendously well acquiring lots of local sponsors which all helps to provide the realism of speedway entertainment. But the point I'm trying to make is , a lot of those sponsors, do so solely, because of Buster and this business interests and not because they have any interest in Speedway in particular. Probably if speedway was run on a more Professional Business level, than probably more Companies would come on board to sponsor the sport itself........ Yeah Buster tries hard in many areas, not just tries hard but has them right, but not with the presentation imo. Edited October 31, 2014 by Trees Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proud panther Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 One of my drivers has just paid £75 for a ticket for a cricket test match. Its all about taste, but that sounds an awful amount of money for something as boring as cricket in my opinion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 Yeah Buster tries hard in many areas, not just tries hard but has them right, but not with the presentation imo. The presentation side disappeared when Jonathan Chapman went missing. That's not Buster's bag and Jonathan was absolutely brilliant at that side of the job. Theme night's, kids day's etc. He was the instigator in the new sound system & electronic scoreboard. He's was also the instigator for British Speedway's super7's series. He had drive to bring speedway to the 21st century then the BSPA sacked him off and he's not been seen since. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buttons Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 They would have to pay me to go to that :-) Yeah Buster tries hard in many areas, not just tries hard but has them right, but not with the presentation imo. Presentaion is one of the things that Promoters really ought to start giving some attention too, as at most tracks EL & PL it is non exisitent 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeoBrummie Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) One of my drivers has just paid £75 for a ticket for a cricket test match. Its all about taste, but that sounds an awful amount of money for something as boring as cricket in my opinion. As you say it's all about taste - you can't beat a day (or more) at the Test - picnic box full of goodies hopefully some nice weather, carnival atmosphere it's great, certainly not boring but it doesn't appeal to everyone and yes 75 quid is a lot but I was paying 20 quid per day back in the 80's so perhaps with inflation added it's about right. Edited October 31, 2014 by BeoBrummie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk_martin Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 The presentation side disappeared when Jonathan Chapman went missing. That's not Buster's bag and Jonathan was absolutely brilliant at that side of the job. Theme night's, kids day's etc. He was the instigator in the new sound system & electronic scoreboard. He's was also the instigator for British Speedway's super7's series. He had drive to bring speedway to the 21st century then the BSPA sacked him off and he's not been seen since. Another victim of the "Our Way or No Way" attitude that pervades the speedway establishment in this country, and prevents progress / rescue. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 Asked my son this morning, who loves bikes and has had a go at speedway, what stops him going. His first thoughts were the effort it takes from where we live to get to Lynn straight from work without having tea. He reckoned if he lived in Lynn rather than 40 miles away he would go. He then mentioned the food, which he thinks should be better quality, that's not hard to achieve! He said he would always want to go with his mates so perhaps targeting local 16-25 year olds who love getting out is the way to go. He did have one idea for fans, that he would like to experience, that is have your name pulled out of a hat to be able to watch from the centre green, next to the flag Marshall for the start and then in the middle for the rest of the race, that wouldn't be hard eh? He agreed with me when I said the presentation should be better, with banter, good music and interaction with the fans. He also thinks riders should try harder, particularly with the kids, to have a presence at the club, other than the speedway. That is down to the rider but also the man on the mic? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz01 Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) Talking of Rugby, a lot of workmates are pretty excited about Wasps moving to the Ricoh. Strange that peeps look like they're more interested in Wasps than Bees. They've got ticket prices right. I've bought one for 15 quid at a stadium with excellent facilities. I might not have gone if it was more expensive, I'm not a huge Rugby fan but I could become one. Edited October 31, 2014 by woz01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weatherwatcher Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 The trouble with speedway is that it is still very much stuck in the 1960/s 1970's dog track culture. The stadiums have not been brought into the 21st century. When all said and done they still resemble the type of flat cap overcoat places that my granddad used to remember. Until the alter the way that they make the stadiums look and the same old 1960/70s way that the sport is run the nothing will ever change. Only the fact that speedway will be dead and gone in a few years time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Science Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 How much does a promoter's variable costs relating to crowd numbers change the more people come in though? Considering the vast majority don't own their stadiums and pay a fixed rent, with policing and stewarding costs not an issue, then not much I doubt, so you could let people in for £10 without the costs changing as long as you got enough people through the gates. The real point is the promoters either can't, won't or don't believe that they are capable of marketing Speedway even at £10, and that they'd rather stick with what they know at £15, which for most is a loss but a predictable one at least. There were many occasions in 2013 with vouchers and groupon deals that speedway was £10 at Birmingham.The promotion could not have done any more to offer cut price admission to watch a successful home team.As we know that season ended with money being owed to riders and management ! They have tried reduced admission but it didn't work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk_martin Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) He said he would always want to go with his mates so perhaps targeting local 16-25 year olds who love getting out is the way to go. You've just hit on something that SCB and I have been saying for ages, and gotten into trouble for being "ageist" about...namely that people like to hang out with others of their own age group. Simple fact of the matter is that the average age (especially in Birmingham) was almost into the 70's. No youngsters go to Old Peoples homes for their nights out so you can't expect them to go to places that look like the Derby & Joan Club's night out either. There has to be created a critical mass of youngsters so that any new young people who go can feel at home amongst others of their own age. Look at any picture of crowds in Poland, and you'll see that the average age of the fans there is half of what it is in Britain. So, young people CAN be attracted, it just needs the right long term initiatives. Yes I know that makes me (a little over 50 now) part of the problem...but I'll admit to it. Speedway shouldn't be focussing on me or the older generation, it needs to focus on a younger crowd. I wouldn't mind. Already I feel like the "Oldest Swinger In Town" when I go to watch Polish Speedway, but I'd rather that than feel like the "New Kid On The Block" (especially at my age) which is how I felt when I went to speedway in Birmingham. Edited October 31, 2014 by uk martin 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedwayTShirts Posted November 2, 2014 Report Share Posted November 2, 2014 Christ knows what really happened, I know for sure I'd have preferred to not know the inner workings of speedway, a sport I've loved for 40 years but could quite happily now take or leave. I firmly planted my feet in the Phillips Camp and despite my loyalty finished significantly out of pocket. I'd also previously found Graham Drury and Denise sound as a pound but saw a totally different side to them in 2013 but then I'm a forgiving soul. Birmingham wise I unfortunately think its curtains unless Cradley take the plunge. I attended the last Brummies meeting at Belle Vue with a pitiful hardcore of maybe 20 fans max, that in itself speaks volumes. But I don't think it's just Birmingham, Peterborough, Eastbourne, Cradley etc who will close up, give it 5 years and I don't think speedway will exist in the UK apart from maybe the Cardiff GP, everything else will be amateur like grasstrack. The fault of all this lies in the failure to move with the times. The entertainment £ is spent better elsewhere in 2014. PS - Presentation wise I think the observations are spot on. I've tried hard with this at Cardiff, Coventry, Brum and Stoke with the assistance of my big brother and my son but our hands have been tied a lot. The big issue is you can be at a meeting for 3-4 hours and see 15 mins racing. That's a lot of time to fill and entertain people which currently at most tracks involves naff all 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canalman Posted November 2, 2014 Report Share Posted November 2, 2014 (edited) Looks like the Phillips can't run a Pub as well as a Speedway Team, this is a review on Tripadviser on there Pub,The Brook Inn Redditch My local for more than 30 years is in a desperate state. The current landlord cannot arrange for there to be any beer or a decent lager. The glasswasher has been leaking onto the bar floor for months and their ice has to come from a supermarket - if they can be bothered. Three out of three beers off tonight plus the Peroni and another lager. Place is pretty much empty every night. Time for the present management to move on and let someone with half a clue about running a pub take it on. Edited November 2, 2014 by Bentley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Countershaftcounter Posted November 2, 2014 Report Share Posted November 2, 2014 Looks like the Phillips can't run a Pub as well as a Speedway Team, this is a review on Tripadviser on there Pub,The Brook Inn Redditch My local for more than 30 years is in a desperate state. The current landlord cannot arrange for there to be any beer or a decent lager. The glasswasher has been leaking onto the bar floor for months and their ice has to come from a supermarket - if they can be bothered. Three out of three beers off tonight plus the Peroni and another lager. Place is pretty much empty every night. Time for the present management to move on and let someone with half a clue about running a pub take it on. so he really can't organise a p**s up in a brewery either it seems ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedwayTShirts Posted November 3, 2014 Report Share Posted November 3, 2014 From what I've heard tonight since posting on here and Facebook, Charles is the sole reason why Birmingham closed and I'm quite confident on that information. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano Posted November 3, 2014 Report Share Posted November 3, 2014 From what I've heard tonight since posting on here and Facebook, Charles is the sole reason why Birmingham closed and I'm quite confident on that information. Wow! And to think he had the gall to ask us fans for the fighting fund to help him run in 2015!!!! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Science Posted November 3, 2014 Report Share Posted November 3, 2014 Wow! And to think he had the gall to ask us fans for the fighting fund to help him run in 2015!!!! The same as Tony Mole was asking for a hundred grand to help him run this year ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MANSE Posted November 3, 2014 Report Share Posted November 3, 2014 Bentley you forgot to add it averaged 3.5 out off 5 by tripadvisor which seems quite reasonable for English food.The person who gave it 1 could be compitition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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