Birmingham Future In Doubt ? Alan Phillips Has Had Enough!

[g13webb]

I have the utmost respect for Buster, our promoter, who works tirelessly to make speedway at Lynn a success. Over the years he has progressed with work and improvements to make the stadium more appealing. He has a reliable fans base who will supports whatever., But not knowing any facts or figures, it is obvious, to a layman, the crowds numbers are not enough on there own to make it a viable business. The books have to be balanced up with many sponsorship deals .

 

If that assessment is correct, than the facts are indeed sad, and it is little wonder clubs are closing down. The real issue here is the lack of 'Bums on Seats' If the sport is surviving on sponsorship alone, It won't be long before those sponsors will decide enough is enough, and more clubs will follow suit.

 

The powers need to realise that speedway is a £10 sport and not £15. The fans want excitement, close racing and happy times. at a price they can afford.

Top names are good but not that important as the sport itself.........nor at a cost that most cant afford to pay......

[spencebel]

Tai said at his evening with Tai, that we the fan pay to much money for what we get...

He also said I will most probably get slated for saying this...

I say good on him for being honest and telling it how it is.

[ABS]

Maybe this is the wrong thread, but it was stated that the downturn in revenue from Sky would be compensated for by the Elite League obtaining sponsorship for the league as a whole. My question is what happened, or rather didn't happen as regards this sponsorship and what was the negative impact on each club's revenue stream as compared to the previous Sky deal? Who was tasked with going out and bringing in such a deal?

 

What I am really asking is would sponsorship have been the difference between B'Ham closing down and Eastbourne leaving the Elite League, as I suspect is the case?

[Reliant Robin]

Maybe this is the wrong thread, but it was stated that the downturn in revenue from Sky would be compensated for by the Elite League obtaining sponsorship for the league as a whole. My question is what happened, or rather didn't happen as regards this sponsorship and what was the negative impact on each club's revenue stream as compared to the previous Sky deal? Who was tasked with going out and bringing in such a deal?

 

What I am really asking is would sponsorship have been the difference between B'Ham closing down and Eastbourne leaving the Elite League, as I suspect is the case?

If the reported figures and losses are true then the short answer is no, it wouldn't have been the difference. The loss of sponsorship would equate to approx £10k per Club - a fraction of what the reported losses are.

[TesarRacing]

I have the utmost respect for Buster, our promoter, who works tirelessly to make speedway at Lynn a success. Over the years he has progressed with work and improvements to make the stadium more appealing. He has a reliable fans base who will supports whatever., But not knowing any facts or figures, it is obvious, to a layman, the crowds numbers are not enough on there own to make it a viable business. The books have to be balanced up with many sponsorship deals .

 

If that assessment is correct, than the facts are indeed sad, and it is little wonder clubs are closing down. The real issue here is the lack of 'Bums on Seats' If the sport is surviving on sponsorship alone, It won't be long before those sponsors will decide enough is enough, and more clubs will follow suit.

 

The powers need to realise that speedway is a £10 sport and not £15. The fans want excitement, close racing and happy times. at a price they can afford.

Top names are good but not that important as the sport itself.........nor at a cost that most cant afford to pay......

 

That was a good post till you got to the £10 bit. I would like to buy a £15k Ford Focus for £10k but I don't think Ford will sell me one. Do you really think if Birmingham had been charging £10 this season they would have got the support to keep them going. Unless you address the costs in speedway it is never going to be a £10 sport and even then I doubt it would be viable. I think the only way forward is accepting that the current level of attendance is going to be the norm, improve the product to make it more slicker and then operate within that cost frame.

[uk_martin]

Having just read about 950,000 tickets for the Rugly World Cup 2015 attracting 5 Million applicants and that tickets at ALL prices at 23 out of the 43 matches (@ up to £350 each) were oversubscribed it kind of points towards people having the money to spend where the "product" is right.

 

People obviously don't think that the Speedway product is right no matter what the admission price.

[SteveLyric2]

Having just read about 950,000 tickets for the Rugly World Cup 2015 attracting 5 Million applicants and that tickets at ALL prices at 23 out of the 43 matches (@ up to £350 each) were oversubscribed it kind of points towards people having the money to spend where the "product" is right.

 

People obviously don't think that the Speedway product is right no matter what the admission price.

Product and the facilities in which to watch!!!

[TesarRacing]

Having just read about 950,000 tickets for the Rugly World Cup 2015 attracting 5 Million applicants and that tickets at ALL prices at 23 out of the 43 matches (@ up to £350 each) were oversubscribed it kind of points towards people having the money to spend where the "product" is right.

 

People obviously don't think that the Speedway product is right no matter what the admission price.

 

Exactly what I was alluding to. It aint a £10 sport but there is definitely something wrong the product. Or maybe, sometimes you just have to admit that perhaps the sport has run it's course and there isn't the support there anymore. I had to close down one of my businesses a few years ago for just that reason.

Edited October 30, 2014 by TesarRacing

[uk_martin]

I can remember standing on the terraces of the old Reddings stadium, in the pre-professional era of rugby union, watching Moseley against the likes of Bath, Wasps, Northampton, Harlequins, Saracens etc etc. I was one of a slack few hundred fans there, and it used to be a quaint way of passing a Saturday afternoon.

 

I saw the Northampton match on TV the other day and remarked on how the crowd was 10 times as large as what it was when I went there to support Moseley. So, building a crowd up can be done, IF THE PRODUCT IS RIGHT. There's no doubt that the Rugby Union product is not perfect, but it's good enough to attract people. Rugby crowds in places like Leicester, Northampton, and Exeter are regularly bigger than their football equivalents, and sometimes when the top Premiership rugby teams play each other they have to use Twickenham stadium with it's 85,000 capacity to get all the fans in. Something happened to Rugby Union that turned it from a very much minority sport, only 20-30 years ago into a huge sport today. It can be done.

 

Sadly Moseley's management and administration (not to mention uninsured stadium fire) led to them not embracing the onset of professionalism, and their decline saw them missing out on the big prize in the resurgence of popularity of Rugby Union in England. Doing things the way that they were always done in the past proved not to be the way forward. Sticking to tradition instead of moving with the times became their undoing. They lost their stadium to a housing development, and ended up on a parks pitch given to them out of sympathy by the Council. Thankfully they are slowly on their way up again, but it will be a long time before Birmingham has a Premiership rugby team again.

 

Why bang on about Moseley and Rugby? Look at the parallels. A sport in a haphazard (pre-professional) state, governed by a drinking club in old school ties, going nowhere, without much of a fan base, and a game only played and then viewed by public / grammar school "toffs". THEN along came the Rugby World Cup, and the advent of professionalism. Along came a root and branch reorganization of the sport and with proper administration and promotion, fortunes improved. It can be done. BUT NOT where the changes are not embraced, and not where "tradition" is the star that the sport or an individual club is steered by at the cost of progress.

 

I don't believe in a sport having "run it's course", else rugby would have died out in the 1980's Fortunes can be revived, but they have to be done in a modern and progressive way.

Edited October 30, 2014 by uk martin

[g13webb]

Having just read about 950,000 tickets for the Rugly World Cup 2015 attracting 5 Million applicants and that tickets at ALL prices at 23 out of the 43 matches (@ up to £350 each) were oversubscribed it kind of points towards people having the money to spend where the "product" is right.

 

People obviously don't think that the Speedway product is right no matter what the admission price.

 

It is wrong to compare a 'Once in a lifetime Occasion' to that of a regular speedway event. When England ran the Olympics, people were paying silly money just to attain and no doubt the Wold Cup Rugby is the same.

 

 

That was a good post till you got to the £10 bit. I would like to buy a £15k Ford Focus for £10k but I don't think Ford will sell me one. Do you really think if Birmingham had been charging £10 this season they would have got the support to keep them going. Unless you address the costs in speedway it is never going to be a £10 sport and even then I doubt it would be viable. I think the only way forward is accepting that the current level of attendance is going to be the norm, improve the product to make it more slicker and then operate within that cost frame.

 

The point I was trying to make, everybody can't afford a £15k Focus, but could probably stretch to a KA or a Fiesta. The biggest problem in speedway it that the machines have become too expensive to race and hence the riders require more money to compete. Just imagine for a moment if the cost of the bikes increased 25%, would the fans be expected to foot the additional bill. Where does it stop? When do you draw a line and say enough????.....

 

I hate to imagine the costs involved with top riders competing in 4 countries. They would have too include, say 10 bikes, 4 mechanics, 2 or 3 vehicles, a tanker of fuel, 5 nights a week in hotels, Flights every other day, the costs must be horrendous. I say good luck to them for what they do. but please don't think they do this for the good of the sport, they do this purely to milk more from the sport...

 

Now lets think about Joe Blogs', the typical supporter who wants to go and watch speedway at his home track. Is it right that he should be charged over the odds to finance those top riders expenses, or better still, guests when some riders fail to appear. All he wants to see is the excitement of four men racing round the track.?

 

So if we go back to the cars, the fans don't need or expect to see Ford Focus's races around, They can get the same excitement by watching Fiestas doing the same thing . at a price everyone can afford.....

[FranktonBee]

I can remember standing on the terraces of the old Reddings stadium, etc etc

Leicester Tigers? Their average is about 9000 fewer than Leicester City. Otherwise, you're quite right.... apart from the fact that you'll only find these kinds of attendances in the Premiership. At Level two the crowds rarely top a couple of thousand except for at a few notable exceptions (Bris being the obvious one). Grass roots RU is not exactly thriving, and the RFU seem to be doing their best to strangle it, by almost palpably avoiding meaningful sponsorship deals at the lower (sub-1) levels.

Parallels?

[TesarRacing]

 

It is wrong to compare a 'Once in a lifetime Occasion' to that of a regular speedway event. When England ran the Olympics, people were paying silly money just to attain and no doubt the Wold Cup Rugby is the same.

 

 

The point I was trying to make, everybody can't afford a £15k Focus, but could probably stretch to a KA or a Fiesta. The biggest problem in speedway it that the machines have become too expensive to race and hence the riders require more money to compete. Just imagine for a moment if the cost of the bikes increased 25%, would the fans be expected to foot the additional bill. Where does it stop? When do you draw a line and say enough????.....

 

I hate to imagine the costs involved with top riders competing in 4 countries. They would have too include, say 10 bikes, 4 mechanics, 2 or 3 vehicles, a tanker of fuel, 5 nights a week in hotels, Flights every other day, the costs must be horrendous. I say good luck to them for what they do. but please don't think they do this for the good of the sport, they do this purely to milk more from the sport...

 

Now lets think about Joe Blogs', the typical supporter who wants to go and watch speedway at his home track. Is it right that he should be charged over the odds to finance those top riders expenses, or better still, guests when some riders fail to appear. All he wants to see is the excitement of four men racing round the track.?

 

So if we go back to the cars, the fans don't need or expect to see Ford Focus's races around, They can get the same excitement by watching Fiestas doing the same thing . at a price everyone can afford.....

Good points but you missed the most important one in your last sentence. You can't ask promoters to charge £10 when their costs are £15. In fact they are not £15 they are more because most are making a loss.

[CUFC_Brummie]

How much does a promoter's variable costs relating to crowd numbers change the more people come in though? Considering the vast majority don't own their stadiums and pay a fixed rent, with policing and stewarding costs not an issue, then not much I doubt, so you could let people in for £10 without the costs changing as long as you got enough people through the gates. The real point is the promoters either can't, won't or don't believe that they are capable of marketing Speedway even at £10, and that they'd rather stick with what they know at £15, which for most is a loss but a predictable one at least.

[weatherwatcher]

Is it not time that we said goodbye to all the GP' riders and went back to the grass root days of speedway when the riders did it for the love of the sport. Make new bikes that are more affordable and cheaper to run ie: as in the days of the old uprights.

I am sure there would be enough riders that would make a meeting just as exiting to watch if not more so, with closer racing.

Bring down the costs and bring down the prices, get the sport noticed with better advertising to let people know that our sport exists.

At the moment we are just a minor sport, the only people going to watch the sport are the die hard fans, because half the population or more in this country don't even know that it even going on close to thier doorstep.

I woulod be more than happy to go watch 4 riders in a race that gave thier all than 4 riders where 2 dash off to the front and the other 2 haven't got a bike fast enough to comete with them.

Lets make it an even playground and bring the sport back to the sport, with riders that can say they have won the race because they race to the best of thier abillity rather than because they had better bikes.

I am sure if this happened we would get to see much more exiting racing to watch week in week out.

[g13webb]

Is it not time that we said goodbye to all the GP' riders and went back to the grass root days of speedway when the riders did it for the love of the sport. Make new bikes that are more affordable and cheaper to run ie: as in the days of the old uprights.

I am sure there would be enough riders that would make a meeting just as exiting to watch if not more so, with closer racing.

Bring down the costs and bring down the prices, get the sport noticed with better advertising to let people know that our sport exists.

At the moment we are just a minor sport, the only people going to watch the sport are the die hard fans, because half the population or more in this country don't even know that it even going on close to thier doorstep.

I woulod be more than happy to go watch 4 riders in a race that gave thier all than 4 riders where 2 dash off to the front and the other 2 haven't got a bike fast enough to comete with them.

Lets make it an even playground and bring the sport back to the sport, with riders that can say they have won the race because they race to the best of thier abillity rather than because they had better bikes.

I am sure if this happened we would get to see much more exiting racing to watch week in week out.

 

Good post, Another man with my thoughts exactly............

 

 

Good points but you missed the most important one in your last sentence. You can't ask promoters to charge £10 when their costs are £15. In fact they are not £15 they are more because most are making a loss.

 

I appreciate your comments, but its the promoters who make all the decisions, the good ones and the bad. They should realise the situation more than any other and do something about it. While they keep bowing to the the demands of the top riders nothing will change.

[Deano]

Leicester Tigers? Their average is about 9000 fewer than Leicester City. Otherwise, you're quite right.... apart from the fact that you'll only find these kinds of attendances in the Premiership. At Level two the crowds rarely top a couple of thousand except for at a few notable exceptions (Bris being the obvious one). Grass roots RU is not exactly thriving, and the RFU seem to be doing their best to strangle it, by almost palpably avoiding meaningful sponsorship deals at the lower (sub-1) levels.

Parallels?

 

Spin your post on it's head. Would you mind if Leicester Speedway were 9,000 fewer than City? The point Martin was making at the highest level Rugby Union was on a par if not worse than speedway in the 70's. Why is it now streaks ahead of speedway by a country mile at most levels?

 

I don't know the answer, but speedway is very tough to sell to my mates when I ask them to go along. They like the concept and the quick flashes of races on the tv in pubs, but they went once and got bored after heat five. I have no interest in cricket, but went once to a 20/20 league match at Worcester versus Warwickshire and it was like going to a carnival. League speedway is comparable to having tea with the vicar sometimes to be honest.

Edited October 30, 2014 by Deano

[greyhoundp]

 

Spin your post on it's head. Would you mind if Leicester Speedway were 9,000 fewer than City? The point Martin was making at the highest level Rugby Union was on a par if not worse than speedway in the 70's. Why is it now streaks ahead of speedway by a country mile at most levels?

 

I don't know the answer, but speedway is very tough to sell to my mates when I ask them to go along. They like the concept and the quick flashes of races on the tv in pubs, but they went once and got bored after heat five. I have no interest in cricket, but went once to a 20/20 league match at Worcester versus Warwickshire and it was like going to a carnival. League speedway is comparable to having tea with the vicar sometimes to be honest.

 

 

Yes Deanno, because they have changed the product, Speedway unfortunately has not, it still 4 laps of bikes followed by Tractor racing, followed by unsatifactory start, riders to pits, supporters twiddling there thumbs, and this with riders who dont even ride for your Team, and to top it all Deanno even the Tea is cold.

[OGT]

Talking of Rugby, a lot of workmates are pretty excited about Wasps moving to the Ricoh.

Strange that peeps look like they're more interested in Wasps than Bees.

[Deano]

Talking of Rugby, a lot of workmates are pretty excited about Wasps moving to the Ricoh.

Strange that peeps look like they're more interested in Wasps than Bees.

 

Yeah and win Jaguar Land Rover as their team sponsor!

[uk_martin]

Talking of Rugby, a lot of workmates are pretty excited about Wasps moving to the Ricoh.

 

I'm sure you can remember a time when your colleagues wouldn't have even known who Wasps Rugby were...???

 

Strange that peeps look like they're more interested in Wasps than Bees.

 

Excellent play on words, but really though, is it THAT strange? Really?

 

Yeah and win Jaguar Land Rover as their team sponsor!

 

Another of the big diffences, Wasps get Jaguar Land Rover as team sponsors. A speedway team would be delighted to get Arthur Daly's Second Hand Land Rover dealership as sponsors.