oldace Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 MIGHT raise the old chestnut of whether riders can be deemed as assets... Well as they will be on the balance sheet as assets of the company the liquidators will treat them as such and they will be seized, figuratively speaking. Of course in truth they have no value and I suspect it is probably illegal to list a sub contractor as an asset anyway, so chances are they will be ignored or even transferred back to the BSPA for a nominal sum. This is all getting a bit ahead of the game anyway and assumes the company will either go voluntarily or creditor led into liquidation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 Of course, the riders (home and away) in the anulled matches would have their rolling averages adjusted as well. But is it the case the club has been withdrawn from the Elite League as yet? What the Express & Star reports today doesn't quite tally with the BSPA statement, does it? I agree it the Express and Star makes that comment it doesn't accord with the BSPA's statement. Perhaps E&S have jumped the gun, there may be a possibility somewhere in all this mess. I remember reading Mr Philips moan in the programme about people not taking the offer to join his save the Club. How many people would want to risk their garden earned cash in a sinking ship that was continuously in the press, Speedway Star and his own programmes. http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/other-sport/speedway/2014/07/04/birmingham-brummies-forced-to-fold-in-cash-crisis/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 I find all this desperately sad. I only hope that Birmingham can return to the Premier League next Season. We can only live in hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adder Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 Has anyone actually ever seen a set of published, audited accounts for a speedway club? I've never been able to find any. The sport is as shady as **** when it comes to proper accounting as many of the transactions between promoters and riders/suppliers/other promoters is done in cash to avoid paying HMRC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Leslie Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 Has anyone actually ever seen a set of published, audited accounts for a speedway club? I wouldn't have thought any Speedway club was anywhere near the size of company that needs to have audited accounts. But they still have to file accounts, the same as any other small business, and yes, I've seen plenty. They're in the public domain at Companies House. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 I wouldn't have thought any Speedway club was anywhere near the size of company that needs to have audited accounts. But they still have to file accounts, the same as any other small business, and yes, I've seen plenty. They're in the public domain at Companies House. Definitely won,t need audit. Isn't it over £6,000,000 now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racers and royals Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 I agree it the Express and Star makes that comment it doesn't accord with the BSPA's statement. Perhaps E&S have jumped the gun, there may be a possibility somewhere in all this mess. I remember reading Mr Philips moan in the programme about people not taking the offer to join his save the Club. How many people would want to risk their garden earned cash in a sinking ship that was continuously in the press, Speedway Star and his own programmes. We are not all gardeners you know 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Leslie Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 We are not all gardeners you know garden earned cash.......some people think it grows on trees! Definitely won,t need audit. Isn't it over £6,000,000 now Think it's over £6.5M turnover or £3.25M assets to need an audit now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman2006 Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 (edited) http://www.speedway-forum.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=71305&p=2171069 Classic posts, thank you for the reminder. Cheered me up somewhat! lol I used to love reading his posts, so funny, much love good night.. Edited July 4, 2014 by Starman2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 As they are not employees, just sub contractors they will just be another creditor who will not get paid. Maybe a few years down the line there could be the odd penny in the poundI thought that the riders were most likely to get paid as that is the purpose of the BSPA bond (along with any sums owed directly to the BSPA). However I saw a comment that the bond wasn't sufficient which suggests that the outstanding sums must be pretty huge. I suspect the main creditors will be the company bankers and the GRA, but they may well have personal guarantees in place from the Phillips's. In these situations it's the small suppliers (e.g. the programme printers, St. Johns Ambi) who are most likely to get nothing. Re riders contracts - they are very unlikely to be on the balance sheet. Accounting practice is to write off transfer/signing on fees in the year they are incurred. When we audited Leicester City FC the joke in the office was that the audit report drew attention to this policy: "players contracts are assigned a nil value and we concur with this value" I think the legal issue over ownership of riders is a red herring. If they are not assets (per Bosman) then there is nothing for the liquidators to realise. If they are then they become the property of the BSPA under the terms of their membership of the BSPA. Only situation I can see where this would be an issue is if a rider wants to go to club A, but BSPA then sells his contract to club B. Re accounts - I have seen plenty, but they are all 30 years or more old, as before the mid 80s the filing requirements for small/medium sized companies did not exempt them from filing profit & loss accounts. I also acted for a promoter and he lost money, even when his team won the league (and before the cynics among you suggest that you should add back suppressed takings to get a true picture the promoter in question was one of the most honest people I've met). I think there was a good article in Speedway Star that included detailed financial information for Wimbledon circa 2004. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stokielee Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 Was Drury an official promoter of the club? If so, would he have also had his licence annulled? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semion Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 I thought the BSPA had their own version of the 30 year rule. Where Clubs accounts were concerned. Lol and then if it compromises National Security then they do not have to disclose them. I have often wondered why there are never any gate figures are published. It's all smoke and mirrors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OGT Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 Was Drury an official promoter of the club? If so, would he have also had his licence annulled? Doubt it, he and Mrs GD boogered off before the start of the season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david2905 Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 (edited) Was Drury an official promoter of the club? If so, would he have also had his licence annulled? Drury's hands are clean in this, otherwise the statement would have picked that up, ultimately the buck stops with the owner. Also clear now that any suggestion that any of the people who have left were the cause of the behind the scenes issues (the afformentioned GD and Mrs GD, Phil Morris, Joe MacLaughlin, etc) were totally false and an attempt to deceive the Birmingham public as to the identity of the real bad apple at the club. Edited July 4, 2014 by david2905 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 Well, it looks like Graham Dury is going to spill some beams in tomorrow's Birmingham Mail. He's not one for holding back on an opinion, could be good reading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stokielee Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 Sounds like its all gone wrong since there was a mass exodus of people from the club then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markyb Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 Had to laugh at the Brummies website with photos of the "faithful" at Belle Vue and the tag 'thanks from the riders' All 11 of the fans ! -( being generous here ) with what must be an average age of 60 +. Totally pathetic ! Will the collapse of an elite league club spell alarm bells at BSPA headquarters? Of course not ! They ain't savvy enough to realise it's another nail in the coffin. Happy days (not) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orderly Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 According to companies house the "Birmingham Brummies Ltd" are listed as c/o Philips Associates so dose that mean that as Philips Associates are not a Limited Liability Company or just a Limited Company and are not listed as being in administration or liquidation could they still be held liable for the debits accrued by "Birmingham Brummies Ltd" below is the companies listing Name & Registered Office:BIRMINGHAM BRUMMIES LIMITED c/o PHILLIPS ASSOCIATES ASSOCIATES HOUSE 249 LYNDON ROAD SOLIHULL WEST MIDLANDS B92 7QPCompany No. 07797533 Status: ActiveDate of Incorporation: 05/10/2011Country of Origin: United Kingdom Company Type: Private Limited CompanyNature of Business (SIC): 93110 - Operation of sports facilities Accounting Reference Date: 31/10Last Accounts Made Up To: 31/10/2012 (TOTAL EXEMPTION SMALL)Next Accounts Due: 31/07/2014Last Return Made Up To: 05/10/2013Next Return Due: 02/11/2014 Mortgage: Number of charges: ( 0 outstanding / 0 satisfied / 0 part satisfied )Last Members List: 05/10/2013 Previous Names: No previous name information has been recorded over the last 20 years. UK Establishment Details There are no UK Establishments associated with this company. Oversea Company Info There are no Oversea Details associated with this company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racers and royals Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 (edited) According to companies house the "Birmingham Brummies Ltd" are listed as c/o Philips Associates so dose that mean that as Philips Associates are not a Limited Liability Company or just a Limited Company and are not listed as being in administration or liquidation could they still be held liable for the debits accrued by "Birmingham Brummies Ltd" below is the companies listing Name & Registered Office: BIRMINGHAM BRUMMIES LIMITED c/o PHILLIPS ASSOCIATES ASSOCIATES HOUSE 249 LYNDON ROAD SOLIHULL WEST MIDLANDS B92 7QP Company No. 07797533 Status: Active Date of Incorporation: 05/10/2011 Country of Origin: United Kingdom Company Type: Private Limited Company Nature of Business (SIC): 93110 - Operation of sports facilities Accounting Reference Date: 31/10 Last Accounts Made Up To: 31/10/2012 (TOTAL EXEMPTION SMALL) Next Accounts Due: 31/07/2014 Last Return Made Up To: 05/10/2013 Next Return Due: 02/11/2014 Mortgage: Number of charges: ( 0 outstanding / 0 satisfied / 0 part satisfied ) Last Members List: 05/10/2013 Previous Names: No previous name information has been recorded over the last 20 years. UK Establishment Details There are no UK Establishments associated with this company. Oversea Company Info There are no Oversea Details associated with this company. Phillips Associates are accountants -Ben Barker knows them. Edited July 4, 2014 by racers and royals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobMcCaffery Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 Phillips Associates are accountants -Ben Barker knows them. http://phillips-associates.org.uk/about-our-company/partners/ Tax experts apparently - could be useful...... </irony> Mr Alan is a Chartered Management Accountant, presumably meaning CIMA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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