Birmingham Future In Doubt ? Alan Phillips Has Had Enough!

[semion]

I am really surprised that as Birmingham Brummies Ltd being a relatively newly formed company that GRA didn't ask for personal guarantees or that lease be taken out in individual names as opposed to a Limited Company

[Guest]

I personally feel, that the promoters that have walked away from Birmingham speedway should be made to pay for thier incompitnse. Why should they be allowede to get away with not paying the clubs rent at the stadium. If they have capitol, as I am sure they have from other busnisses that they are involved in, then they should be made to pay up for the mess they have left behind. Why should a new promoter be made to find the the money to clear off the debts of other that just walk away from it without a care in the world. If it leaves them pennyless then hard luck, after all they where still taking money off people that came through the gate at Birmingham right up until the final week. Plus they have people out there who have taken out season tickets. Have they re-paid those people and have the riders wages been paid. This is a mess that should be paid by the previous management and noone else. It is ridiculess the way that that people can get away from things like this and leave other people to clear up the mess they have left behind. For the said people to come out with thousands of pounds in bank accounts and they end up smelling of roses instead of the PIg S**t that they deserve to smell of.

A reasonable thought on paper but it doesn't quite work that way in company law. IMO no chance of anything like that happening.

[Deano]

A great aim in theory to hand the money back if the Brummies don't come to the tapes and I hope it doesn't get to that stage.

 

But while the full wreckage of the Phillips regime remains to be unfolded, surely there are going to be some modest costs along the way while anyone else finds out whether Birmingham can resume in 2015 ... then, if it's not going to work out, you can't live up to that pledge to give everyone their money back because some of that money's been spent in good faith but, ultimately, in vain.

 

Increasingly I reckon everyone trying to drum up any sort of Brummies fighting fund probably needs to take a deep breath for a couple of weeks to let more details of the existing debts emerge.

 

There's been nothing to suggest the Brummies have any hope of resuming their 2014 fixtures so why the rush to gather up that fighting fund in double-quick time ? !! ... Monday's meeting at Belle Vue by all accounts had the current lineup's farewell written all over it, the BSPA have already been quoted about when that lineup will become free agents, Belle Vue have already been parachuted into Birmingham's trip to Leicester on Saturday and even Tony Mole has decided an immediate rescue's not for him.

 

Given there's 4 months to the BSPA annual general meeting setting up the 2015 season and then another 4 months to that season actually starting, it must be far better to spend the next few weeks finding out the depths of the current debt, starting the negotiations needed to bring goodwill back towards the Brummies and, most importantly of all, establishing a much more accurate view of how much money's needed so that the fundraising can be far more efficient than the current desperate scramble.

 

Yes, there's a lot of hard work ahead for the Brummies fans ... but well-thought-out hard work is usually much more successful and enjoyable than hastily-thrown-together hard work.

 

Why wait weeks to think about it, when the whole thing has sunk in and the momentum has died down?

 

Strike while the iron is hot. Within a week a lot of people will have their holidays to look forward to and perhaps would think twice about donating.

 

We want our team back, why wait.

 

charles Phillips has said the debt is £50k by the way. Unpaid riders wages is included in that.

Edited July 2, 2014 by Deano

[semion]

Does each promotion have to lodge a bond with the BSPA also what rider assets does the current company own ?

[ProudtobeaBrummie]

So what is happening now ?

[Deano]

So what is happening now ?

 

Charles Phillips says he has an investor willing to split the debt with him on the proviso this investor gets his money back at the end of the season.

 

The thing is do we trust him? Is he telling the truth or more half truths?

[SCB]

 

Charles Phillips says he has an investor willing to split the debt with him on the proviso this investor gets his money back at the end of the season.

I'm in on that deal too! If I make money I win. If we lose money then Phillips has to give it back.

[rob240866]

50k? wow. total mismanagement to let it get that far out of hand

[ProudtobeaBrummie]

Ok so I've been told we're having a meeting with him where and when ?

 

Surely he has nothing to gain from lying at this point ?

[Deano]

Ok so I've been told we're having a meeting with him where and when ?

 

Surely he has nothing to gain from lying at this point ?

 

I don't know,where or when the meeting is, I'm not on the committee.

 

If I find out I'll let you know.

 

The thing is redandyellow Charles and his dad consistently denied having any debt. They have both mismanaged the business and blamed everyone but themselves. You are right, he has nothing to gain from lying, but something isn't sitting right with me.

[arthur cross]

Why wait weeks to think about it, when the whole thing has sunk in and the momentum has died down?

 

Strike while the iron is hot. Within a week a lot of people will have their holidays to look forward to and perhaps would think twice about donating.

 

We want our team back, why wait.

 

charles Phillips has said the debt is £50k by the way. Unpaid riders wages is included in that.

My previous post has clearly zoomed way over your head.

 

I'm not suggesting you "wait weeks to think about it" ... instead, I've recommended you use these early weeks working hard but in a different way that's all about finding out as much as possible about how much money you're going to need and, only once the figurework's clearer, then collect the money.

 

In the meantime, let people enjoy their hoildays (if they're able to afford them) ... if they care that much about the Brummies, they'll still donate in the autumn (after they've paid for that holiday) the same money they'd donate now.

 

Of course, you "want our team back" ... that won't happen unless anything that needs tidying-up with the GRA is carefully done rather than rushed .... that won't happen unless the BSPA-AGM in November accepts a new Brummies promotion and accepts it into a league place ... and, unless there's a fairytale rescue that permits a resumption of this season's fixtures, no-one's going to actually see "our team back" in action until March ... so, I repeat, while working hard behind-the-scenes, why the mad rush to get the money on board now ? !!

[Deano]

I'm in on that deal too! If I make money I win. If we lose money then Phillips has to give it back.

 

Agree, but is it an imaginary friend/investor.... Can't tell with that bloke.

Does each promotion have to lodge a bond with the BSPA also what rider assets does the current company own ?

 

Yes they have to lodge a bond, that bond I believe has paid riders wages for the last two meetings.

 

On the rider front, we owe a retainer list, but most are retired. these will be seized by the BSPA if we closed.

 

The assets we will also loose are things like track grading equipment, tractor, air fence etc.

[arthur cross]

Charles Phillips says he has an investor willing to split the debt with him on the proviso this investor gets his money back at the end of the season.

 

The thing is do we trust him? Is he telling the truth or more half truths?

I wouldn't be wasting my time wondering whether he's "telling the truth or more half truths".

 

If Charles Phillips has listened to an offer like that and been so impressed by it that he wants to make it public knowledge, then Charles Phillips should never have been allowed any financial responsibility beyond continuing to store a few coins in his childhood piggy-bank !!

 

How the hell is a loss-making next-to-bottom team for the past 3-&-a-bit months (and currently out-of-favour with its stadium-landlord) going to make £25,000 profit in the next 3-&-a-bit months so that the "going halves" new investor can have his rescue money returned to him on time ? !!

 

I've seen plenty of financial cluelessness with speedway but that might well be the new number-1

[P T Preece]

I havent read through all the posts, but dont trust the Phillips at the moment, it took us over 20 years to get it back and two gits 2 years to lose it, feeling very sad since the meeting at Poole, been through this twice now with the Brummies and feel very unhappy and dont think it can be saved, I hope Im wrong.

Speedway dosent die because you lose a club but it takes a bit of your heart each time it does.

[wealdstone]

I personally feel, that the promoters that have walked away from Birmingham speedway should be made to pay for thier incompitnse. Why should they be allowede to get away with not paying the clubs rent at the stadium. If they have capitol, as I am sure they have from other busnisses that they are involved in, then they should be made to pay up for the mess they have left behind. Why should a new promoter be made to find the the money to clear off the debts of other that just walk away from it without a care in the world. If it leaves them pennyless then hard luck, after all they where still taking money off people that came through the gate at Birmingham right up until the final week. Plus they have people out there who have taken out season tickets. Have they re-paid those people and have the riders wages been paid. This is a mess that should be paid by the previous management and noone else. It is ridiculess the way that that people can get away from things like this and leave other people to clear up the mess they have left behind. For the said people to come out with thousands of pounds in bank accounts and they end up smelling of roses instead of the PIg S**t that they deserve to smell of.

 

 

Of course that is exactly what Rick Frost did when taking over Panthers from Colin Horton. His reward was to be shafted by the mafia on numerous occasions and despite paying the outstanding wages owed by Horton to a rider, that rider took the money and promply joined another club. Integrity?

[david2905]

I havent read through all the posts, but dont trust the Phillips at the moment, it took us over 20 years to get it back and two gits 2 years to lose it, feeling very sad since the meeting at Poole, been through this twice now with the Brummies and feel very unhappy and dont think it can be saved, I hope Im wrong.

Speedway dosent die because you lose a club but it takes a bit of your heart each time it does.

 

That's where I differ, I coulden't bring myself to support another club, so my speedway interest dies if the Brummies do.

[mdmc82]

I wouldn't think Sky will lose much sleep over not having an EL to televise next year tbh...If it's down to 7 clubs the contract is off I believe anyway, so one league looking more and more likely...unless Uncle Len can ride to the rescue with his Kent Kings..the stadium is up to scratch after all...OR Cradley somehow sort out enough dates to run EL?

Been talk of Sheffield possible coming up

Says on Birmingham updates that Birmingham speedway riders haven't been paid still by last 5 away clubs. Does anybody know why this is?

[Star Lady]

Been talk of Sheffield possible coming up

Says on Birmingham updates that Birmingham speedway riders haven't been paid still by last 5 away clubs. Does anybody know why this is?

 

Could it be that the away clubs send the payments via the home club. Can't really see an away club sending payment to individual riders.

[mdmc82]

Official update on Birmingham :

Charles informs us:

He has found an investor who will lend £25,000 to the club subject to this being repaid at the end of the season from anticipated income of £75,000 (which does not include any possible turnstile money).

If this investor lends £25,000 to Birmingham Speedway Limited, Charles will put £25,000 of his personal money into Birmingham Speedway Limited.

I am informed that the debts of the club amount to £50,000 and that these two investments would therefore cover these.

Charles has agreed that he will not request the fighting fund be used, either to bolster club funds or to pay off any of the debts this season.

He has also agreed that whatever is raised by the fighting fund he will match and put in the Supporters Club account. If the club folds at any time before the start of next season or is sold to another party, the funds raised by the supporters either return to them or go to the new owners (the decision of those who donated) and Charles matching donation will remain with the Supporters Club. However, if the club re-opens next season with Charles as promoter, the fighting fund goes to Birmingham Speedway Limited, as do his matching funds.

Alan Phillips would have no further interest in the club and Charles would be sole promoter. However, he would bring in someone with promoting experience to look after the day to day running of the club, leaving Charles to concentrate on ways of increasing sponsorship and improving attendance.

If Charles decided at the end of this season that he no longer wished to be involved, he would continue running as long as it took to find a buyer.

The riders have not been paid for the last home meeting, nor the last 5 away meetings. Charles informs us that the contributory points money from those 5 away tracks has not yet been received by Birmingham Speedway. Charles also informs us that some riders owe money to the club and that some sponsors have not paid their bills.

Charles also stated that if Birmingham Speedway Limited goes into liquidation, the assets would be seized and sold off to cover debts. This would leave any prospective new promotion with the expense of starting from scratch ie air fence, tractors etc.

Charles has accepted that there is a lack of trust in him and has offered to host a Q&A with as many supporters as are interested at which he has said he will provide evidence of all he has claimed and where he would be prepared to introduce the person who would take on day to day running of the club. He would not be prepared to invest his money without the (moral) support of the Brummies fans and he needs to be assured that you would turn up to meetings.

[oldace]

Charles also stated that if Birmingham Speedway Limited goes into liquidation, the assets would be seized and sold off to cover debts. This would leave any prospective new promotion with the expense of starting from scratch ie air fence, tractors etc.

 

 

 

But in reality it would leave any prospective new promoter to acquire these items at a fraction of their worth.

 

The problem, if the ltd company goes into liquidation owing the GRA money, would be convincing them to allow the sport back in and you can bet the already high rent would be inflated to recover any monies owed.