Birmingham Future In Doubt ? Alan Phillips Has Had Enough!

[Trees]

It's a shame it always ends up falling back onto the fans to bail their club out , but if that's what it takes - then that's what it takes . 500 people donating a tenner would keep things going in the short term , would give you breathing space anyway .

If and when a fighting fund is set up , post a link on here and i'll certainly donate . Had brilliant nights everytime i've been at Birmingham following Glasgow and at the Benfund . It means too much to speedway to lose

But it's the fan's club after all, the more input the better?

[Starman2006]

Fair enough. As arthur cross has highlighted in #231, all sorts of figures are being bandied about at the moment. We know that the Brummies have been locked out of Perry Barr, so that is quite serious, but we don't know what is owed elsewhere. Losses being made on meetings week on week, riders not being paid, that sort of thing. Then there's the added difficulty of knowing whether the operating company is insolvent or not. The Phillips' are insisting that they are not. What I do know is, a substantial six figure sum was asked for by last Friday, or the whole thing could be over, and again, nothing specific was mentioned as to what that money was for.

 

One thing that has come out over the last few days is this; The Phillips' have admitted ploughing £400,000 into the venture since they took over at the end of 2011.

As for you first part, we are back to the rent again. arn't we, doesn't take an Einstien to work that out.. As for the second part, your telling us something everybody has already read..

So, why the hell doesn't the GRA, because clearly, from reading previous posts that is what this all boils down to sit round a dam table a give the club a compromise to give Birmingham speedway club a bit of breathing space to finish the season, then its up to the Birmingham fans to show their support for the club untill the end of this season, then, the promotion along with the fans can decide if next season is viable, or not.... Surely, the GRA are not that gready and nasty to put a man out of business, are they?? I mean, talk about kick a man when he's down..

Edited June 29, 2014 by Starman2006

[wealdstone]

Frankly I would have thought that the first priority for a promotion was to pay and thus secure the venue from which you operate.

[broadsider 55]

As for you first part, we are back to the rent again. arn't we, doesn't take an Einstien to work that out.. As for the second part, your telling us something everybody has already read..

So, why the hell doesn't the GRA, because clearly, from reading previous posts that is what this all boils down to sit round a dam table a give the club a compromise to give Birmingham speedway club a bit of breathing space to finish the season, then its up to the Birmingham fans to show their support for the club untill the end of this season, then, the promotion along with the fans can decide if next season is viable, or not.... Surely, the GRA are not that gready and nasty to put a man out of business, are they?? I mean, talk about kick a man when he's down..

Do you know how long they havnt paid their rent , I think not like them or not GRA are in business to make money , try going to tescos and coming out with your shopping without paying its the same principle , I would do the same as they have if they cant pay then no speedway simple , as per usual starman you are talking out of your arse

[orion]

Do you know how long they havnt paid their rent , I think not like them or not GRA are in business to make money , try going to tescos and coming out with your shopping without paying its the same principle , I would do the same as they have if they cant pay then no speedway simple , as per usual starman you are talking out of your arse

Spot on ..GRA are a business not a charity .

[Starman2006]

Do you know how long they havnt paid their rent , I think not like them or not GRA are in business to make money , try going to tescos and coming out with your shopping without paying its the same principle , I would do the same as they have if they cant pay then no speedway simple , as per usual starman you are talking out of your arse

Nice of you to say so pal. Like everybody else on this thread, we are trying to be helpful, clearly, helpful doesn't come under your vocabulary. Clearly you don't give a monkeys if the league lose's a club. your not a member of the GRA by any chance are you??

Edited June 29, 2014 by Starman2006

[Leicester Hunter]

Surely, the GRA are not that gready and nasty to put a man out of business, are they??

Unfortunately, the GRA got messed about by one or two promoters at Oxford a few years ago, and as a result are not the most speedway friendly landlords.

 

Just as an aside, if you had a tenant who wasn't paying an amount of rent that was in writing and on a signed tenancy agreement, what would you do about it?

[Starman2006]

Unfortunately, the GRA got messed about by one or two promoters at Oxford a few years ago, and as a result are not the most speedway friendly landlords.

 

Just as an aside, if you had a tenant who wasn't paying an amount of rent that was in writing and on a signed tenancy agreement, what would you do about it?

Fair comment, if, that is the case. But if, this has been going on for a fair old while then Surely the GRA would have been chasing them up then. Again, there's probably a lot more to this than meets the eye. And if as said, Smith has put 400 k into speedway at Birmingham, something is not right somewhere. And thats between the club and its fans, and riders to sort out.

Edited June 29, 2014 by Starman2006

[arthur cross]

Frankly I would have thought that the first priority for a promotion was to pay and thus secure the venue from which you operate.

Correct ... or to be really accurate, jointly top-priority with making sure there's an ambulance parked next to that venue when you want to use it.

 

It doesn't matter if you've got Tai Woffinden and 3 of his GP-rivals due at the tapes in Heat-1 or a quartet of 15-year-old National League riders ... if there isn't a track for them to race upon or the medical cover to cope with what they might get up to, you won't be having Heat-1 (or any other heats later on) !!

 

Surely, the GRA are not that gready and nasty to put a man out of business, are they?? I mean, talk about kick a man when he's down..

If they think it's a realistic business decision for them, then yes, the GRA will put someone out of business even if you think it's greedy and nasty ... they've done it before with both speedway clubs and individual greyhound trainers so why expect any different now ? !!

 

In fact, the GRA have probably tried to be fair and constructive with Alan Phillips before deciding upon what appears to be the current lockout as a last resort.

 

Meanwhile, there would've been enough senior speedway folk warning Alan Phillips that of all stadium-landlords to fall the wrong side of, the GRA would be at the top of the list given their historic reputation ... yet he's still taken that tumble.

 

Your frighteningly naive and fluffy-cloud view of how the world of business works sums up why speedway's so often passing round the begging-bowl ... speedway finds it so easy to bleat about being the victim in situations like this when, all too often, it's sent itself hurtling towards such chaos with hopelessly unrealistic plans of its income compared to its costs.

 

For the sake of the Brummies fans, I still hope their club can be rescued ... but every indication in recent days is that the Phillips regime has driven their club to the point where nasty decisions about the Brummies are bound to be taken.

[SpeedwayTShirts]

If all the debts are similar to those owed to ourselves for presentation then they could stretch back upto 3 months. Although I would doubt that the riders wages are that far behind but stadium rent, track staff etc could well be.

 

With Tony Mole declaring himself out especially with his passion and history for the Brummies I am doubtful we will see any money paid.

 

If there's anything I can do to help I am happy to offer my services and I also still have the full support of BIKRfm.

Edited June 29, 2014 by Chris BART Simpson

[semion]

This 400k figure that is being quoted. Does it say that is how much Phillips has put in or how

Much he has dropped ?

[greyhoundp]

If all the debts are similar to those owed to ourselves for presentation then they could stretch back upto 3 months. Although I would doubt that the riders wages are that far behind but stadium rent, track staff etc could well be.

 

With Tony Mole declaring himself out especially with his passion and history for the Brummies I am doubtful we will see any money paid.

 

If there's anything I can do to help I am haooy to offer my services and I also still have the full support of BIKRfm.

 

Oh dear Chris, i hope you are wrong, not for yourself but others, thats june, May and April, basically you havent been paid since the start of the season, and if thats multiplied over, Then Phillips has not only been living a BIG dream, but he has blatantly lied over and over to numerous people involved, including supporters, who he allegedly told "Birmingham Speedway is debt free" and thats only a few weeks ago. I can see why loyal supporters mistrust him, because he must have known the real situation.

[arthur cross]

If all the debts are similar to those owed to ourselves for presentation then they could stretch back upto 3 months. Although I would doubt that the riders wages are that far behind but stadium rent, track staff etc could well be.

 

With Tony Mole declaring himself out especially with his passion and history for the Brummies I am doubtful we will see any money paid.

 

If there's anything I can do to help I am haooy to offer my services and I also still have the full support of BIKRfm.

Very useful to hear from someone awaiting even a modest part of the Phillips regime's debt but given we're only 3-&-a-half months into the season, your info of how long some of the debts stretch back is even more shocking than I would've expected.

 

Perhaps this is asking for too much info Chris, but are you willing to say whether there have been what proved to be empty promises in recent weeks that at least a dent would be made in these debts ?

 

In situations like this, a promoter stumbling too deeply into debts is bad enough but it's usually any empty promises from that promoter that turn out to be even more disastrous as that destroys any goodwill from those awaiting to be paid.

Edited June 29, 2014 by arthur cross

[greyhoundp]

This 400k figure that is being quoted. Does it say that is how much Phillips has put in or how

Much he has dropped ?

 

Its in his statement on the Brummie forum, he says its what he has put in, but i take that with a pinch of salt now, Im guessing his ex partner Chris Luty i think his name is, must have put something in. and he has said recently to a supporters group Birmingham Speedway is debt free, but as we can see from Chris BART Simpson on here, he hasnt been paid for 3 months, so thats a blatant untruth.

[SpeedwayTShirts]

There were no promises Arthur despite many repeated attempts to contact via email, phone and text since the last home meeting.

 

Personally after my support of Alan last season resulting in me losing several other roles within the sport I find this a massive kick in the teeth but hold no grudges and just hope a secure future can be found for the Brummies, the loyal fans deserve it.

 

I wish Alan and his family all the best for the future as he had a big heart for the Brummies but similar to Sandhu at Coventry I doubt you will see him involved in the sport again.

Edited June 29, 2014 by Chris BART Simpson

[New Science]

Wonderful that you're keen to get an appeal going and you may well be able to "hit 25000 in a few weeks".

 

But, realistically, is that going to be anywhere near enough to make real progress or are you more likely to end up with enthusiastic folk soon finding they've generously chucked their money into simply catching-up the existing debts, leaving the Brummies still lurching along with plenty of loss-making home meetings for the rest of this season before there's any proper chance to find a more medium/long-term solution for the Brummies during the winter.

 

Figures have been bandied about like "losing £5,000 per home meeting" ... well, in that case, with 11 home Elite League meetings to go, seeing out the rest of the season's going to cost £55,000 and that's without working out the size of the debts already stacked up ... suddenly, that £25,000 you hope to hit in a few weeks is going to be smashed up just as fast as it's been collected.

 

Pledges of rescue-money are great but there's an important skill as well in using those pledges effectively.

 

From my distance, the biggest problem isn't even the amount of debt involved ... it's actually the very thorny problem of persuading the GRA to unlock speedway's access to Perry Barr because there's little point collecting generous donations for a team who don't have a home track to race upon.

 

So, as soon as possible, try to find out the following 3 separate answers about the Brummies' debt ...

 

1. How much is owed in rent-arrears to the GRA (and what will it take to restore relations with the GRA, perhaps the stadium-rent always kept a week ahead) ?

 

2. How much is owed elsewhere ?

 

3. Realistically, how much are the Brummies going to lose while completing the rest of this season because it's highly unlikely a team near the bottom of the table is suddenly going to break-even or make a profit even if it clears the previous regime's debt.

 

Whether any supporters group, however well meaning, can manage to answer the above questions is highly debatable unless there's a willingness by such a supporters group to harness its efforts with anything being done on a more official level by the BSPA or SCB ... this isn't the time or place for different factions of speedway to belittle one another when they all want the eventual solution of the Brummies continuing.

 

And it'll be a massive help if someone already well known to the Brummies fans can be the figurehead of any survival hopes, even if that person isn't necessarily directly doing any of the fundraising ... i appreciate this may be a difficult situation for the Brummies given the most obvious candidates for such a role are the team manager or captain but Jack Lee's relatively new to the club after many years managing at a lower level and Danny King's transfer request a while back has been well documented.

 

Of course, the top priority is to see the Brummies continue but, within that target, there's still room for co-ordinating the rescue plan in the hope any such rescue doesn't just bring everyone back to the same desperate situation a few months/years later.

 

Glasgow are a good recent example, albeit during an off-season rather than mid-season, of a club whose future appeared bleak but who've still survived ... other clubs have recovered from nightmare finances with fewer headlines but, nearly always, with carefully-directed rescue-funding rather than chucking money at the situation in panic-fashion.

 

But in the Brummies' current plight, that breakdown with the GRA remains a massive obstacle.

Excellent post ! While I admire the fans in wanting the club to survive its interesting to observe a similar case at Hereford United fc. A robust survival fund raising effort was coordinated to effectively save the club,but within a year the club had to raise the same amount again simply to survive again.That was never going to happen and now the club find themselves thrown out of the league.Unless the factors which got Birmingham into this mess change a fighting fund will just prolong the inevitable.Somehow Birmingham have to increase turnover significantly and reduce costs (I don,t know how) or need to attract a sugar daddy who can fill the breach.Whatever the solution it needs to be quick !

You think this is still all about rent? It's gone way, way beyond that, I'm afraid.

 

Of course. Just over a hundred years ago, Harland & Wolff faithfully promised The White Star Line that the Titanic wouldn't sink. Look at what happened there...

Were they the original turbo twins 'Harland & Wolff' Edited June 29, 2014 by New Science

[stevebrum]

There will always be an Elite League, or a Division One. A league a little bit higher standard than the one below it.

Just depends what name you want to give it and whether or not it's fitting.

 

 

Which is my point. There will always be a top flight.

 

 

 

Poole, Wolves, King's Lynn and Lakeside - clearly sturdy enough for the current level of the Elite League both in terms of their finances and stadium availability.

 

But after that ... what's your minimum number of clubs for a "meaningful EL" ? !!

 

 

 

Poland only have 8 and they have a league that works perfectly. Sweden like us have ten.

I would prefer ten teams personally. So i suppose 8 is the minimum.

 

 

 

honestly Steve i wouldn't be too sure

 

the money just doesn't seem to be there and Swindon and Coventry may not even have stadiums soon

 

 

I have no concern that there wont be a meaningful top flight as long as we have Speedway in the UK.

 

edited to update wrong information.

Edited June 29, 2014 by stevebrum

[sandking072]

Which is my point. There will always be a top flight.

 

 

 

 

It was down to 6 at one stage. And the teams were strong.

Poland only have 8 and they have a league that works perfectly. Sweden like us have ten.

I would prefer ten teams personally. So i suppose 8 is the minimum.

 

 

 

 

I have no concern that there wont be a meaningful top flight as long as we have Speedway in the UK.

The Elite League has never been down to 6 teams, Steve. 8 is the lowest number there's been.

[Guest]

I apologise if this Link has already appeared. If it has, perhaps a Mod will delete but I cannot trace it previously.

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/other-sport/tony-mole-id-hate-see-7335888

[stevebrum]

The Elite League has never been down to 6 teams, Steve. 8 is the lowest number there's been.

 

 

Apologies. I thought we had but having checked i`m wrong.