SteveLyric2 Posted June 26, 2014 Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 All good and valid criticisms pandorum, but what are the solutions? Going back to basics and starting again? Standardising machinery? Banning tuners? Still trying to retain a standard that TV want to broadcast? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandorum Posted June 26, 2014 Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 All good and valid criticisms pandorum, but what are the solutions? Going back to basics and starting again? Standardising machinery? Banning tuners? Still trying to retain a standard that TV want to broadcast? The solutions have been discussed here many times mate but nobody who matters really cares so it's all hot air from us keyboard warriors as we know nowt anyway Going back to basics and starting again for me is the sports best option here as it has squandered the TV bounty and has not a clue how to attract new customers. But to go back to that is probably impossible now sadly. TV now gives the sport nothing at all as the coverage simply reduces the crowd and does nothing to bring in new people as the meetings in dilapidated stadiums look so bland, boring and dull on TV who the hell would want to spend a few valuable hours of their lives at THAT The TV experiment has been a massive failure and UK speedway must be the only sport ever to not profit from what SKY did for it. Cost's increasing, crowds (I use the term loosely here) diminishing, lack of vision for the future, fools in charge. I think the first thing that needs to be done is for speedway to accept that the EL is a failure and stop worrying about how to attract the Holders and Hancock's and figure out how to attract the next generation of both riders and supporters. Frankly I don't think it matters now as the sport has fallen too far and will eventually become an irrelevance here. Damn shame as it's a hell of a sport 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted June 26, 2014 Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 Nobody said they wanted the big boys back (although that would be nice). What we should have is value for money, regular racing, teams without guests and RR, affordable prices, ENTERTAINMENT. Sadly I don't think the BSPA have the solution to dwindling crowds as their latest ideas haven't exactly improved the value for money need and is nothing but more cost cutting! I cant imagine there is an EL fan out there that doesn't want the big boys back and a strong EL again. But so far as regular racing and entertainment goes, i couldn't agree more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted June 26, 2014 Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 Are there really though? I've heard this anecdotally, but has anyone actually researched which clubs simply cannot ride on certain nights due to clashes or planning restrictions? I think it should either be: Elite - Wednesday and Thursday Premier - Friday and Saturday National - Tuesday and Sunday or bite the bullet and have one large Premier League split on a regional basis with a North v South play-off for the league title. Spot on, it's simply a case of 'think of the first problem' and give up. An attitude that will never see a business achieve success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted June 26, 2014 Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 Nobody said they wanted the big boys back (although that would be nice). What we should have is value for money, regular racing, teams without guests and RR, affordable prices, ENTERTAINMENT. Sadly I don't think the BSPA have the solution to dwindling crowds as their latest ideas haven't exactly improved the value for money need and is nothing but more cost cutting! All the major issues surrounding this sport are financial. Introducing the FTR scheme was done as a cost saving idea, without necessarily weakening the product. It also gave more opportunity to the young British riders to progress at a much faster rate. Bit like a double whammy, to benefit this sport. The one big problem is that some supporters are only looking as far as their noses. Just because, we now have more lesser riders, they expect the product to be cheaper. The whole idea was to make the promotion more affordable so there are less clubs finding it difficult to survive. This is not a thriving enterprise, more of a struggle and any chance of cutting costs, both to Promoters and Fans has to be initiated. Probably in your eyes the product is not as good as before, but to me, the entertainment hasn't changed and is as good as it's always been. . I believe there have been many good ideas posted on here, and no doubt more changes will to be made. What we mustn't do is give up ........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagpuss Posted June 26, 2014 Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 'without necessarily weakening the product' Are you sure GRW? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted June 26, 2014 Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 'without necessarily weakening the product' Are you sure GRW? Depends what you refer to as 'Product.' My understanding of the 'Product' is entertainment and exciting racing. So yes quiet sure. The racing this years has been far more competitive, and the meetings far closer than have in previous years. If on the other hand you refer to the 'Product' as the number of top quality riders, than I would obviously have a different opinion. But then I wouldn't be going anyway....... and satisfy my cravings by only watching SGP on the box..... If I had to choice between going to Lynn each meeting or watching Grand Prix on the tele, Lynn would win everytime...... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted June 26, 2014 Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 (edited) Depends what you refer to as 'Product.' My understanding of the 'Product' is entertainment and exciting racing. So yes quiet sure. The racing this years has been far more competitive, and the meetings far closer than have in previous years. If on the other hand you refer to the 'Product' as the number of top quality riders, than I would obviously have a different opinion. But then I wouldn't be going anyway....... and satisfy my cravings by only watching SGP on the box..... If I had to choice between going to Lynn each meeting or watching Grand Prix on the tele, Lynn would win everytime...... Fair points but would you be saying the same if the Stars were bottom of the EL rather than the top?? A winning team does tend to influence fans' perspectives somewhat!!! (ps I do agree with your views on this one incidentally). Edited June 26, 2014 by Skidder1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman2006 Posted June 26, 2014 Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 Are there really though? I've heard this anecdotally, but has anyone actually researched which clubs simply cannot ride on certain nights due to clashes or planning restrictions? I think it should either be: Elite - Wednesday and Thursday Premier - Friday and Saturday National - Tuesday and Sunday or bite the bullet and have one large Premier League split on a regional basis with a North v South play-off for the league title. We need go no further... good post.. What when Poole & Kings Lynn ride on Wednesday's & they are the biggest 2 teams in British speedway. Well that is apart from having your heat leaders as asetts at Kings Lynn of course Thats a lovely compliment from a Swindon fan..Go to the top of the class pal.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted June 26, 2014 Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 Fair points but would you be saying the same if the Stars were bottom of the EL rather than the top?? A winning team does tend to influence fans' perspectives somewhat!!! (ps I do agree with your views on this one incidentally). The fact that I've been going and supporting Lynn for more years than I care to remember should answer your query. For me, being top of the league is a novelty 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted June 26, 2014 Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 I cant imagine there is an EL fan out there that doesn't want the big boys back and a strong EL again. But so far as regular racing and entertainment goes, i couldn't agree more. altho i agree with you, yes we would love them all back, but not if they didnt have thee heart in it, and went awol on gp weeks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve0 Posted June 26, 2014 Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 All the major issues surrounding this sport are financial. Introducing the FTR scheme was done as a cost saving idea, without necessarily weakening the product. It also gave more opportunity to the young British riders to progress at a much faster rate. Bit like a double whammy, to benefit this sport. The one big problem is that some supporters are only looking as far as their noses. Just because, we now have more lesser riders, they expect the product to be cheaper. The whole idea was to make the promotion more affordable so there are less clubs finding it difficult to survive. This is not a thriving enterprise, more of a struggle and any chance of cutting costs, both to Promoters and Fans has to be initiated. Probably in your eyes the product is not as good as before, but to me, the entertainment hasn't changed and is as good as it's always been. . I believe there have been many good ideas posted on here, and no doubt more changes will to be made. What we mustn't do is give up ........ You are entitled to your opinion but with respect, it is fans like yourself that the BSPA want to keep. How can you say that the product has not been diluted with FTR riders (apart from the fact that you probably have the best reserve pairing in the league). In the real world (where we do look past the end of our noses), the product is not Elite - it has been diluted year on year even past the 3 year period they said they needed, the entertainment is poor value for money , there is no continuity of meetings and there is hardly a meeting now without guests and RR - and so many meetings with many guests. On top of that teams now have 2 riders, who apart from a small number have definitely diluted the product to an all time low - and all for the same price! As a paying customer - that is unacceptable. That is my view and for each of our viewpoints there are people that will agree and those that will disagree. Whichever camp you are in the fact is the fan base is reducing! If speedway dies (where it is certainly heading) then the problem lies squarely with the promoters and not the fans who choose to exercise their right to spend their money how they want to. Wake up and smell the coffee - if the fan base keeps shrinking there will be no teams to support so this is a real problem that needs dealing with!M 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
van wolfswinkel Posted June 26, 2014 Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 (edited) Comparing my two favourite sports, speedway(used to be the second biggest spectator sport) and horse racing(now the second biggest), the equine sport is generally much better value. A family could have paid just 7 quid for a car full on Sunday at Worcester(all under 18s free), there were thousands there, and kids entertainment. It's free admission at Towcester. If you're lucky, as we were, the bet wins cover your food/drink/travel costs. Went to Swindon speedway last week, only counted 2 passes all meeting, the races were over after the second bend. Obstructed views and facilities not as good as Worcester, and 34 quid in.Hopefully the new stadium at Swindon will come to fruition. The crowds have shrunk since they returned to the Elite 10 years ago, although there has been no reduction in the football and ice-hockey attendances in the town. A warm summer would give speedway good crowds. Very few kids attend speedway now. Normally go to Cardiff as it's good value and entertainment, and hopefully be as good racing as the Swedish Grand Prix, passing in almost every heat. Edited June 26, 2014 by Mad Moose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 You are entitled to your opinion but with respect, it is fans like yourself that the BSPA want to keep. How can you say that the product has not been diluted with FTR riders (apart from the fact that you probably have the best reserve pairing in the league). In the real world (where we do look past the end of our noses), the product is not Elite - it has been diluted year on year even past the 3 year period they said they needed, the entertainment is poor value for money , there is no continuity of meetings and there is hardly a meeting now without guests and RR - and so many meetings with many guests. On top of that teams now have 2 riders, who apart from a small number have definitely diluted the product to an all time low - and all for the same price! As a paying customer - that is unacceptable. That is my view and for each of our viewpoints there are people that will agree and those that will disagree. Whichever camp you are in the fact is the fan base is reducing! If speedway dies (where it is certainly heading) then the problem lies squarely with the promoters and not the fans who choose to exercise their right to spend their money how they want to. Wake up and smell the coffee - if the fan base keeps shrinking there will be no teams to support so this is a real problem that needs dealing with!M I'm under no illusions as to the state of this sport, so yes I can smell the coffee, but I can also see the bigger picture. You seem to live with thoughts of granular of where this country stands in the Speedway ratings of importance. You question the dilation of quality riders, as if we have a choice, but the fact remains we cannot afford to compete with countries like Poland Denmark and Sweden, and the sooner all the supporter realise this the better. The biggest issue with this sport is finance. Riders pay big monies for quality equipment, Promoters have to meets the riders high costs, and to do that the fans have to pay through the nose. All them are facts. There is no way the promotions can reduce the admissions, all they can do, is reduce the cost of the riders. That where the FTR system comes in. So to answer one of your points, is there a dilution of top quality riders, then YES, but not the quality of entertainment. You moan about the number of meetings using Guests and RR, Unfortunately this will always happen until this country comes into line with other countries and run meetings on a strict day schedule. Until that time we have no choice but to fill in the spaces with whoever, and hope the public wont mind. To me, running Elite League fixtures at the weekend is a No-Go............ but then again I'm not a Promoter......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve0 Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 I'm under no illusions as to the state of this sport, so yes I can smell the coffee, but I can also see the bigger picture. You seem to live with thoughts of granular of where this country stands in the Speedway ratings of importance. You question the dilation of quality riders, as if we have a choice, but the fact remains we cannot afford to compete with countries like Poland Denmark and Sweden, and the sooner all the supporter realise this the better. The biggest issue with this sport is finance. Riders pay big monies for quality equipment, Promoters have to meets the riders high costs, and to do that the fans have to pay through the nose. All them are facts. There is no way the promotions can reduce the admissions, all they can do, is reduce the cost of the riders. That where the FTR system comes in. So to answer one of your points, is there a dilution of top quality riders, then YES, but not the quality of entertainment. You moan about the number of meetings using Guests and RR, Unfortunately this will always happen until this country comes into line with other countries and run meetings on a strict day schedule. Until that time we have no choice but to fill in the spaces with whoever, and hope the public wont mind. To me, running Elite League fixtures at the weekend is a No-Go............ but then again I'm not a Promoter......... I think we will need to agree to disagree on this one because we seem to live on different planets. To answer some of your points: 1. I didn't mention anything about competing with other speedway nations. What I mentioned was the dilution of the product and value for money. Where does it all end - 7 NL riders per team in the EL because that is all they can afford? That is where they are heading unless they address the value for money issue. I think supporters realise this and that is why they are voting with their feet and staying away! 2. I agree the biggest issue is finance but they should be looking at ways of reducing costs to riders and the other costs will have to follow suit - not expect their customers to pay through the nose for an inferior product. 3. Regarding quality of entertainment - so you enjoy watching Team Lewis beating most of the opposition - some of which are half a lap behind? Of course you do because you have two strong reserves - the bigger picture is that it is an unfair system that was "rigged" from the outset (and I'm not getting at KL or any other team - who all played within the rules). How can that be better entertainment? 4. I don't think I was actually moaning about the number of meetings with guests and RR - I was merely supporting my view that this adds to the less value for money. However, when you say that we have no choice - you might not, but I certainly do - if I don't like it, I won't settle for less. It is that attitude of the diehard fans (who are dwindling in numbers) that any speedway is better than none that encourages speedway promoters to continue to dilute the product and at some point you just have to say "enough is enough" and the FTR has done that for me. I have been attending speedway for well on 30+ years but for all the reasons I previously listed (which I won't list again for fear of being accused of moaning!) I have found other ways to keep me busy on a Thursday night which is good value for money! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 3. Regarding quality of entertainment - so you enjoy watching Team Lewis beating most of the opposition - some of which are half a lap behind? Of course you do because you have two strong reserves - the bigger picture is that it is an unfair system that was "rigged" from the outset (and I'm not getting at KL or any other team - who all played within the rules). How can that be better entertainment? Rigged? Really?? I would say that teams with 2 youngsters as assets should only be allowed 1 to ensure things are evened up. Why shouldn't teams with young assets have priority?? So its OK for some teams to sit back and do nothing and then expect the best draft riders?? I am hoping this system (with some modification) is here to stay and hopefully that will encourage ALL EL teams to start investing in BRITISH youth and not looking for the best foreign newcomer. Obviously many believe that going for NL riders is a step to far for the EL. But what is clear we have to do something about spiraling costs and lack of top foreigner riders wanting to ride here. I long for the days of a strong EL, but i cant see it happening anytime soon. But the answer is simple - get the top boys over and crowds will come back. Win win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve0 Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 Rigged? Really?? I would say that teams with 2 youngsters as assets should only be allowed 1 to ensure things are evened up. Why shouldn't teams with young assets have priority?? So its OK for some teams to sit back and do nothing and then expect the best draft riders?? I am hoping this system (with some modification) is here to stay and hopefully that will encourage ALL EL teams to start investing in BRITISH youth and not looking for the best foreign newcomer. Obviously many believe that going for NL riders is a step to far for the EL. But what is clear we have to do something about spiraling costs and lack of top foreigner riders wanting to ride here. I long for the days of a strong EL, but i cant see it happening anytime soon. But the answer is simple - get the top boys over and crowds will come back. Win win. You can't have a fair draft system if you keep riders back - so yes - rigged! (whatever the justification is) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 You can't have a fair draft system if you keep riders back - so yes - rigged! (whatever the justification is) I hear what you are saying, just think rigged is the wrong wording. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandorum Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 But the answer is simple - get the top boys over and crowds will come back. Win win. I find it amusing anyone still believes such nonsense Bit of advice when you get an email from a Nigerian General just ignore it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 I find it amusing anyone still believes such nonsense Bit of advice when you get an email from a Nigerian General just ignore it Proof is already available. When Emil came over to ride for Cov figures were up everywhere Cov went. Like i said - its unlikely to ever happen again. But you probably don't read things fully i would expect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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