Improving Speedway

[Vince]

How does having the big stars riding rejuvenate the sport when the non Speedway fan, the one's needed for increased attendances, have no idea who they are. Run an EL meeting tomorrow featuring 14 GP riders and you won't attract any newcomers to the sport, you will see a good crowd because current fans will turn up from further afield. However that's because it would be an unusual event, if that was how it was every week you would very soon be back to the same supporters you have now.

 

Speedway has to attract new spectators and that is everything to do with image and value and nothing to do with riders they have yet to hear of. Whoever happens to do well their first night will be a top rider until somebody tells them how much better it could be if only they rode Douglas' in black leathers and leg trailed.

[MattK]

Speedway has lost thousands, if not tens of thousands of supporters in the last decade. A good place to start would be to try and tempt them back.

[Vince]

Those lost thousands drifted away for a reason, tempting them back will be a short term fix at best. Whatever the reason they drifted away will resurface before long. If the price to do that is bankrupting clubs by employing riders they can't afford I can't see how that could be justified.

 

Much better in my opinion to concentrate what are very limited resources on trying to create a new generation of Speedway supporters.

 

It's never going to be easy as there is so much they can do without investing time or much money, including watching Speedway on TV or Youtube. I'm not even convinced that Speedway can do much other than shrink down to a very small professional sport with the majority of clubs surviving like most motorsports clubs do by running events for paying riders with one man and his dog watching.

 

I do know that continuing to tell everybody who looks on the net that modern Speedway is crap compared to what it used to be in whatever generation you happened to start going is doing nothing to help and probably a good deal of harm. So far I've heard that the old days are better when standing on the terraces in the 60's, 70's, 80s, 90s, 00s and up to very recently. I'm not sure exactly when these golden days were but for sure they were never in the now!

[oldtimer]

Coventry V Poole June 20th, 3 guests for the Bees and 2 for the Pirates.

Leicester V Swindon June 21st, Peter Kildemand and Troy Batchelor missing for Swindon and Bjarne Pedersen missing for Leicester.

 

You don't know from week to week who is riding, matches are won by who has the best guest.

[ColinMills]

everyone on this site knows the sport inside out, even if we dont agree..but we all agree its in bad shape. do the promoters carry on the way it is, or do they get radical...team strength isnt for me, most important. if i watch world cup, gps i know im watching a PRODUCT. If im watching a league match, i see a amatuer production, who fill teams up with any 7 riders just to get a match on.

try taking a newby, learrning them to fill a programme in...they study the programme and realise the team they watched have lost. you then tell them "at least we get a point for LOSING". you then have to explain 3,2,1 pts for result, then 4,3,2,1 away pts!!

KEEP IT SIMPLE..if you lose, you lose......

[pandorum]

everyone on this site knows the sport inside out, even if we dont agree..but we all agree its in bad shape. do the promoters carry on the way it is, or do they get radical...team strength isnt for me, most important. if i watch world cup, gps i know im watching a PRODUCT. If im watching a league match, i see a amatuer production, who fill teams up with any 7 riders just to get a match on.

try taking a newby, learrning them to fill a programme in...they study the programme and realise the team they watched have lost. you then tell them "at least we get a point for LOSING". you then have to explain 3,2,1 pts for result, then 4,3,2,1 away pts!!

KEEP IT SIMPLE..if you lose, you lose......

The rules of cricket are a lot more confusing.

Speedway needed a reward for doing well away but it went a bit far and did it cack handed instead of simple.

I don't see why the home team needs a reward for thrashing the opposition but do see why we need a reward for getting within 6 points away as that's a good performance.

Aggregate bonus point is a good idea. Sweden use that.

Bonus point for an away draw. Good idea.

Give teams better tactical options such as what the old tac sub rule gave them.

The double point rule does not work and is silly.

If your newbie can't fill in a program after a quick explanation by you then may I say your newbie friend is frankly an idiot.

Speedway is pretty simple at face value but it's all the rules that are used to allow Poole to win the league that are a bit annoying

[ColinMills]

yes always preferred the tac sub rule..the managers needed to be a lot wiser then today..

in speedway we are told riders only get paid by points scored..so keeping the scores close doesnt mean they try "harder" as surely if your paid per point, you should be trying anyway?

[New Science]

If we want the top boys back and a really meaningful EL then we have to fall in line with Sweden/Poland/Denmark.

Not that it will happen as most promotions are only interested in their own needs first and foremost.

Their interested in stability and in trying to lose less money.Rather than 'getting the top boys back' the sport is moving firmly in the opposite direction with the fast track scheme.Unless someone can broker a long term million dollar sponsorship package for the Elite league than you can forget the 'big boys',the guys that promote are not oligarchs,they would be mad to take such a big risk.

[pandorum]

yes always preferred the tac sub rule..the managers needed to be a lot wiser then today..

in speedway we are told riders only get paid by points scored..so keeping the scores close doesnt mean they try "harder" as surely if your paid per point, you should be trying anyway?

 

Surely bonus points reward the achievement.

Speedway is pretty unique in that the playing surfaces differ so drastically so surely a good performance on an away surface deserves something better than a pat on the back.

Edited June 28, 2014 by pandorum

[stevebrum]

How does having the big stars riding rejuvenate the sport when the non Speedway fan, the one's needed for increased attendances, have no idea who they are

 

 

That is a different argument. The non Speedway fan needs to be got thru advertising and promotion that perhaps a big company sponsorship can help with.

We need new fans in the long term absolutely but we need to tempt back those who no longer support - mostly due to lack of top riders.

 

 

Their interested in stability and in trying to lose less money.Rather than 'getting the top boys back' the sport is moving firmly in the opposite direction with the fast track scheme.Unless someone can broker a long term million dollar sponsorship package for the Elite league than you can forget the 'big boys',the guys that promote are not oligarchs,they would be mad to take such a big risk.

 

 

I don't disagree. There are several reasons qwhy the big boys are missing from the EL. A big sponsorship deal with money to tempt could be an answer because we know riders will ride if the money is on offer.

[ch958]

 

 

That is a different argument. The non Speedway fan needs to be got thru advertising and promotion that perhaps a big company sponsorship can help with.

We need new fans in the long term absolutely but we need to tempt back those who no longer support - mostly due to lack of top riders.

 

 

 

 

I don't disagree. There are several reasons qwhy the big boys are missing from the EL. A big sponsorship deal with money to tempt could be an answer because we know riders will ride if the money is on offer.

 

we can't know that for a fact

its just as likely to be cost, boring racing, bad overall presentation, etc etc

[ColinMills]

 

Surely bonus points reward the achievement.

Speedway is pretty unique in that the playing surfaces differ so drastically so surely a good performance on an away surface deserves something better than a pat on the back.

i not saying your right or wrong. maybe im old school, but when the gulf oil british league (as it was then), simplistic worked fine.,

40-38 was the magical score line, you knew if you got less then 39 you went home empty handed, i liked that consept, for me sport is about rewarding winners, not losers........you could run a persoonal best at olympics and come 4th, no one will give you a medal for trying hard

[stevebrum]

 

we can't know that for a fact

its just as likely to be cost, boring racing, bad overall presentation, etc etc

 

 

Of course we cant.

But there is a big clue........................ the EL has steadily decreased its quality over the past 10 seasons, so have attendances.

Its certainly got a big part of it.

[The White Knight]

Speedway has lost thousands, if not tens of thousands of supporters in the last decade. A good place to start would be to try and tempt them back.

I wonder why? CREDIBILITY perhaps. :rolleyes:

 

How does having the big stars riding rejuvenate the sport when the non Speedway fan, the one's needed for increased attendances, have no idea who they are. Run an EL meeting tomorrow featuring 14 GP riders and you won't attract any newcomers to the sport, you will see a good crowd because current fans will turn up from further afield. However that's because it would be an unusual event, if that was how it was every week you would very soon be back to the same supporters you have now.

 

Speedway has to attract new spectators and that is everything to do with image and value and nothing to do with riders they have yet to hear of. Whoever happens to do well their first night will be a top rider until somebody tells them how much better it could be if only they rode Douglas' in black leathers and leg trailed.

They could be right Vince - you seem to have a 'thing' about this. I can't remember the Leg Trailers - but - I KNOW I enjoyed my Speedway better back in the Seventies than I do now. :sad:

 

Those lost thousands drifted away for a reason, tempting them back will be a short term fix at best. Whatever the reason they drifted away will resurface before long. If the price to do that is bankrupting clubs by employing riders they can't afford I can't see how that could be justified.

 

Much better in my opinion to concentrate what are very limited resources on trying to create a new generation of Speedway supporters.

 

It's never going to be easy as there is so much they can do without investing time or much money, including watching Speedway on TV or Youtube. I'm not even convinced that Speedway can do much other than shrink down to a very small professional sport with the majority of clubs surviving like most motorsports clubs do by running events for paying riders with one man and his dog watching.

 

I do know that continuing to tell everybody who looks on the net that modern Speedway is crap compared to what it used to be in whatever generation you happened to start going is doing nothing to help and probably a good deal of harm. So far I've heard that the old days are better when standing on the terraces in the 60's, 70's, 80s, 90s, 00s and up to very recently. I'm not sure exactly when these golden days were but for sure they were never in the now!

The simple fact is that comparatively speaking Speedway isn't as good as it was years ago. What is so wrong with telling the TRUTH?

 

We've all seen Races on the Television that Nigel Pearson tries to talk up and some of them are, frankly, rubbish. Telling folk that things are great these days, never been better, is just downright wrong. Totally untrue.

[New Science]

i not saying your right or wrong. maybe im old school, but when the gulf oil british league (as it was then), simplistic worked fine.,

40-38 was the magical score line, you knew if you got less then 39 you went home empty handed, i liked that consept, for me sport is about rewarding winners, not losers........you could run a persoonal best at olympics and come 4th, no one will give you a medal for trying hard

The staggered point system is the best idea that the BSPA have come up with in the last 10 years.Its provided some meaning to many a heat 13,14 and 15 which without it would have been tame and inconsequential.If you watch the matches from Poland, teams simply,give up when they know they are going to lose .With the staggered points system you get a much truer picture of the league.

[Vince]

I wonder why? CREDIBILITY perhaps. :rolleyes:

 

They could be right Vince - you seem to have a 'thing' about this. I can't remember the Leg Trailers - but - I KNOW I enjoyed my Speedway better back in the Seventies than I do now. :sad:

 

The simple fact is that comparatively speaking Speedway isn't as good as it was years ago. What is so wrong with telling the TRUTH?

 

We've all seen Races on the Television that Nigel Pearson tries to talk up and some of them are, frankly, rubbish. Telling folk that things are great these days, never been better, is just downright wrong. Totally untrue.

You enjoying your Speedway isn't the same thing as it being better, just being younger means you were probably less cynical and any sport is usually more exciting when it's new to you.

 

That's why I have a 'thing' about this! It's not a simple fact that Speedway is not as good as it was years ago, it's an opinion and one I mostly disagree with. There's nothing truthful about it in any way, it's an opinion, no more or less than that. The only thing I think was better was the atmosphere because of bigger crowds, in my opinion the racing today is the best I have ever seen in my 40+ years of watching Speedway. If you and I could take the same newcomer to his first Speedway meeting he would quite likely enjoy it with me because I would tell him what I think is so fantastic about the sport. On the other hand with you he would come away disenchanted because he hadn't seen the top riders and every race wasn't exciting like it used t be when you were a lad.

 

I just watched what was a pretty average GP these days, it was far better than most of the one off finals I ever saw and the best GP's are fantastic entertainment and better than any racing I saw in previous decades. You can claim that's untrue if you like but it's my opinion and a look at some Pathe reels will suggest I may well be right.

 

Somebody else claimed that the crowds have dwindled as the top riders left British racing, I wonder if that's true or if the riders have left because the crowds and the money have dried up.

[ColinMills]

The staggered point system is the best idea that the BSPA have come up with in the last 10 years.Its provided some meaning to many a heat 13,14 and 15 which without it would have been tame and inconsequential.If you watch the matches from Poland, teams simply,give up when they know they are going to lose .With the staggered points system you get a much truer picture of the league.

i dont agree, it doesnt mean your not right though..

[Trees]

NKI put some of the blame for foreign riders and top blokes not racing here onto the quality of our tracks ......

[ColinMills]

You enjoying your Speedway isn't the same thing as it being better, just being younger means you were probably less cynical and any sport is usually more exciting when it's new to you.

 

That's why I have a 'thing' about this! It's not a simple fact that Speedway is not as good as it was years ago, it's an opinion and one I mostly disagree with. There's nothing truthful about it in any way, it's an opinion, no more or less than that. The only thing I think was better was the atmosphere because of bigger crowds, in my opinion the racing today is the best I have ever seen in my 40+ years of watching Speedway. If you and I could take the same newcomer to his first Speedway meeting he would quite likely enjoy it with me because I would tell him what I think is so fantastic about the sport. On the other hand with you he would come away disenchanted because he hadn't seen the top riders and every race wasn't exciting like it used t be when you were a lad.

 

I just watched what was a pretty average GP these days, it was far better than most of the one off finals I ever saw and the best GP's are fantastic entertainment and better than any racing I saw in previous decades. You can claim that's untrue if you like but it's my opinion and a look at some Pathe reels will suggest I may well be right.

 

Somebody else claimed that the crowds have dwindled as the top riders left British racing, I wonder if that's true or if the riders have left because the crowds and the money have dried up.

i dont think theres any rider that a big draw nowadays. if ole olsen was in town you could sense a buzz around the place.. nobody in speedway,and the way its run now can give that feeling

[The White Knight]

You enjoying your Speedway isn't the same thing as it being better, just being younger means you were probably less cynical and any sport is usually more exciting when it's new to you.

 

That's why I have a 'thing' about this! It's not a simple fact that Speedway is not as good as it was years ago, it's an opinion and one I mostly disagree with. There's nothing truthful about it in any way, it's an opinion, no more or less than that. The only thing I think was better was the atmosphere because of bigger crowds, in my opinion the racing today is the best I have ever seen in my 40+ years of watching Speedway. If you and I could take the same newcomer to his first Speedway meeting he would quite likely enjoy it with me because I would tell him what I think is so fantastic about the sport. On the other hand with you he would come away disenchanted because he hadn't seen the top riders and every race wasn't exciting like it used t be when you were a lad.

 

I just watched what was a pretty average GP these days, it was far better than most of the one off finals I ever saw and the best GP's are fantastic entertainment and better than any racing I saw in previous decades. You can claim that's untrue if you like but it's my opinion and a look at some Pathe reels will suggest I may well be right.

 

Somebody else claimed that the crowds have dwindled as the top riders left British racing, I wonder if that's true or if the riders have left because the crowds and the money have dried up.

Or have they stopped coming because the Sport has devalued itself by bringing in stupid, unnecessary and fiddling Rules.

 

When I say the Sport has lost it's CREDIBILITY I am deadly serious - it has. Just one example should suffice. The World Cup a couple of years ago. Without checking back I think it was Australia LOST despite never having used a Joker (because they were unable to). ALL the other Teams had used their Joker which did NOT keep the Scores closer (as intended) but instead cost Australia the World Cup. CREDIBILITY is everything.

 

Oh - and what about Nicki Pedersen and Jason Crump fighting hard to finish LAST in a Race in the World Cup - what was that about?

 

You can CON some of the people some of the time - BUT - you cannot CON all of the people all of the time. People KNOW when they are being hoodwinked.

 

Now - ask yourself WHY the Crowds have gone down - it's really not difficult.

 

This example transfers also to League Racing in the form of Tactical Rides.