Vince Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 One thing that is absolutely certain and that is that modern Speedway no matter what the rule changes, how deep the tracks or how team minded the riders can ever hope to equal the sport of some peoples rose tinted memories! Just perhaps if people looked for the positives in what is a bloody good sport newcomers would read something good on the net and take a chance on spending a few quid to see for themselves. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) They aren't coming to watch the Crowd though, are they? They are coming to watch the Racing and enjoy the Meeting. If the Racing can't hold their interest - then the demographic won't matter will it?. Have you been to Poland and "witnessed" a league match in the flesh? I was pretty critical of Poland and it's dominating ways in which it "owns" riders and dictates where and when they ride. Tell me where in British speedway can you go to a place youngsters go and drink a pint of beer in a glass with the local teams riders etched in? Tell me where in Britain you can go to a shop with a coffee bar selling advance tickets and showing none stop speedway with people sat down on sofa's enjoying the view. Tell me where in British speedway you can buy clothes that look good on twenty somethings and not designed specifically for the "grey scene". At that from a shop in a modern environment, not from a guy with a decorators table of badges laid out. Tell me where in british speedway do 5,000+ fans before a league match congregate in the town square and march singing and chanting a designated route to the stadium lined with riot vans and riot police!!! Being filmed by local media, newpapers and fans like a carnival. Tell me where in British Speedway league matches take part in a Cardiff style stadium with Cardiff style views. Tell me where in Britain you walk through a town with a speedway logo on and people stop you and chant the club song. Why is it in Poland you have 14 riders that cover the circuit within a few milli seconds of each other, creating one race, not two! British speedway is the equivalent to attending a sunday morning church service, drab and boring, compared to what I joined in with the weekend. Constant song singing, constant chanting trying to out do the 800 travelling fans, yes 800 travelling fans. Edited June 24, 2014 by Deano 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foamfence Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 Have you been to Poland and "witnessed" a league match in the flesh? I was pretty critical of Poland and it's dominating ways in which it "owns" riders and dictates where and when they ride. Tell me where in British speedway can you go to a place youngsters go and drink a pint of beer in a glass with the local teams riders etched in? Tell me where in Britain you can go to a shop with a coffee bar selling advance tickets and showing none stop speedway with people sat down on sofa's enjoying the view. Tell me where in British speedway you can buy clothes that look good on twenty somethings and not designed specifically for the "grey scene" Tell me where in british speedway do 5,000+ fans before a league match congregate in the town square and march singing and chanting a designated route to the stadium lined with riot vans and riot police!!! Tell me where in British Speedway league matches take part in a Cardiff style stadium with Cardiff style views. Tell me where in Britain you walk through a town with a speedway logo on and people stop you and chant the club song. Why is it in Poland you have 14 riders that cover the circuit within a few milli seconds of each other, creating one race, not two! British speedway is the equivalent to attending a sunday morning church service, drab and boring, compared to what I joined in with the weekend. Constant song singing, constant chanting trying to out do the 800 travelling fans, yes 800 travelling fans. All very true, but that 5000+ used to be more like 20,000+ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 All very true, but that 5000+ used to be more like 20,000+ Possibly, but more and more Brits are heading overseas for their speedway. I've now had a piece of the Polish cake, do I want to go back to cold custard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) Have you been to Poland and "witnessed" a league match in the flesh? I was pretty critical of Poland and it's dominating ways in which it "owns" riders and dictates where and when they ride. Tell me where in British speedway can you go to a place youngsters go and drink a pint of beer in a glass with the local teams riders etched in? Tell me where in Britain you can go to a shop with a coffee bar selling advance tickets and showing none stop speedway with people sat down on sofa's enjoying the view. Tell me where in British speedway you can buy clothes that look good on twenty somethings and not designed specifically for the "grey scene". At that from a shop in a modern environment, not from a guy with a decorators table of badges laid out. Tell me where in british speedway do 5,000+ fans before a league match congregate in the town square and march singing and chanting a designated route to the stadium lined with riot vans and riot police!!! Being filmed by local media, newpapers and fans like a carnival. Tell me where in British Speedway league matches take part in a Cardiff style stadium with Cardiff style views. Tell me where in Britain you walk through a town with a speedway logo on and people stop you and chant the club song. Why is it in Poland you have 14 riders that cover the circuit within a few milli seconds of each other, creating one race, not two! British speedway is the equivalent to attending a sunday morning church service, drab and boring, compared to what I joined in with the weekend. Constant song singing, constant chanting trying to out do the 800 travelling fans, yes 800 travelling fans. In 1950s\60s GB!!No comparing Poland to GB, we'll see how things are in 20 years time there!! I guess if our promoters had huge council owned tracks and rich sponsors they could encourage the youngsters to come to our clubs for next to nothing and chant, sing and drink. One thing they couldn't do is make our young people care about and have pride in their local club like they seem to do in Poland!! Edited June 24, 2014 by Trees Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluejam Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 Have you been to Poland and "witnessed" a league match in the flesh? I was pretty critical of Poland and it's dominating ways in which it "owns" riders and dictates where and when they ride. Tell me where in British speedway can you go to a place youngsters go and drink a pint of beer in a glass with the local teams riders etched in? Tell me where in Britain you can go to a shop with a coffee bar selling advance tickets and showing none stop speedway with people sat down on sofa's enjoying the view. Tell me where in British speedway you can buy clothes that look good on twenty somethings and not designed specifically for the "grey scene". At that from a shop in a modern environment, not from a guy with a decorators table of badges laid out. Tell me where in british speedway do 5,000+ fans before a league match congregate in the town square and march singing and chanting a designated route to the stadium lined with riot vans and riot police!!! Being filmed by local media, newpapers and fans like a carnival. Tell me where in British Speedway league matches take part in a Cardiff style stadium with Cardiff style views. Tell me where in Britain you walk through a town with a speedway logo on and people stop you and chant the club song. Why is it in Poland you have 14 riders that cover the circuit within a few milli seconds of each other, creating one race, not two! British speedway is the equivalent to attending a sunday morning church service, drab and boring, compared to what I joined in with the weekend. Constant song singing, constant chanting trying to out do the 800 travelling fans, yes 800 travelling fans. What I can't understand Deano,is why it has taken you so long to make that maiden trip to Polska! I'll be surprised if you ever attend another meeting in the UK after your experiences of last weekend! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) Depends if he has that pride in his local team or not!! :-) I might go have a look at a Polish league match but I sure as hell won't care who wins! Edited June 24, 2014 by Trees 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) In 1950s\60s GB!! No comparing Poland to GB, we'll see how things are in 20 years time there!! Have you been? It's no wonder the several hundred thousand Poles that live around our speedway tracks rarely, possibly never, venture in. What I can't understand Deano,is why it has taken you so long to make that maiden trip to Polska! I'll be surprised if you ever attend another meeting in the UK after your experiences of last weekend! I will do yes, but to be honest after using Ryan Air and polish transport, to watch speedway at polish prices. is it much more expensive to attend a Polish match than it is to attend an away meeting here? Edited June 24, 2014 by Deano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluejam Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) Have you been? It's no wonder the several hundred thousand Poles that live around our speedway tracks rarely, possibly never, venture in. I will do yes, but to be honest after using Ryan Air and polish transport, to watch speedway at polish prices. is it much more expensive to attend a Polish match than it is to attend an away meeting here? On average you'd pay £6-7 admission for Ekstraliga.About £5 for Liga 1 and 2. Edited June 24, 2014 by bluejam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifaxtiger Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 Have you been to Poland and "witnessed" a league match in the flesh? I was pretty critical of Poland and it's dominating ways in which it "owns" riders and dictates where and when they ride. Tell me where in British speedway can you go to a place youngsters go and drink a pint of beer in a glass with the local teams riders etched in? Tell me where in Britain you can go to a shop with a coffee bar selling advance tickets and showing none stop speedway with people sat down on sofa's enjoying the view. Tell me where in British speedway you can buy clothes that look good on twenty somethings and not designed specifically for the "grey scene". At that from a shop in a modern environment, not from a guy with a decorators table of badges laid out. Tell me where in british speedway do 5,000+ fans before a league match congregate in the town square and march singing and chanting a designated route to the stadium lined with riot vans and riot police!!! Being filmed by local media, newpapers and fans like a carnival. Tell me where in British Speedway league matches take part in a Cardiff style stadium with Cardiff style views. Tell me where in Britain you walk through a town with a speedway logo on and people stop you and chant the club song. Why is it in Poland you have 14 riders that cover the circuit within a few milli seconds of each other, creating one race, not two! British speedway is the equivalent to attending a sunday morning church service, drab and boring, compared to what I joined in with the weekend. Constant song singing, constant chanting trying to out do the 800 travelling fans, yes 800 travelling fans. I suspect the answer to all of those questions is nowhere. But the comparison is, I would say, an unfair one. Its a bit like making a comparison between American baseball and its British equivalent, or Canadian Ice Hockey and that in this country.........or football in this country and football in Poland. Its simply the biggest sport out there and with that comes all the trappings you have mentioned. In Britain speedway is a minority sport and even back in the 1970's when it was far more popular than it is now it was still a minority sport, at least in terms of the press coverage. From what I have seen of Polish speedway on the internet on Sunday afternoons, the quality of the racing is in general no better than that over here. The attraction therefore is not the racing, but everything that goes with it. Trees has, for me, made two excellent points. For a start, success is cyclical. In the 1970's, the top Polish riders - Plech, Jancarz, Cieslak, Proch, Huszcza - all rode in this country. Poland, then, was a back water just as Britain is now. There's nothing to say that things won't change back again. But most importantly, she has pointed out why most people go to speedway (possibly after the fact that they like the sport anyway) : to support their team. How many of us can get truly passionate about a team that is in another country when we can watch our own local one every week and just down the road ? Speaking as someone who doesn't follow a team but did a while ago (and may indeed do so again) being a neutral just isn't the same whatever the other circumstances might be. One thing that is absolutely certain and that is that modern Speedway no matter what the rule changes, how deep the tracks or how team minded the riders can ever hope to equal the sport of some peoples rose tinted memories! Just perhaps if people looked for the positives in what is a bloody good sport newcomers would read something good on the net and take a chance on spending a few quid to see for themselves. Great post, Vince. My Dad went in the 1950's to watch a teenage Ronnie Moore ride. When he heard I was going his comment was 'first out of the gate always wins'. I must admit I think this 'two races in one' argument is rubbish, too. Looking at my 1979 year book, we had 8 riders averaging over 10 points a much and 13 over 9.5. Currently, we have 1 over 9.5.There were no less than 51 averaging less than 4.5 (albeit that many only rode in about half the matches). What do think happened when heat leaders of that strength and second strings or reserves on those averages were in the same race ? Go back a bit further and you had the likes of Briggs, Mauger, Olsen & Boocock averaging over 11 for a season - the only people who beat them were each other. If anything, I'd say the gap between the top riders and the bottom ones has narrowed. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 Okay, so everything is fine. Just put more dirt down down get better racing, open more tracks and they will come. Everything that speedway could be compared with in the 50's, 60's and 70's is of course in the same position as speedway. That's how it works. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityrebel Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 I agree the gap has narrowed. I remember in the 1970's seeing jim Tebby beat Ivan Mauger at Wimbledon and preben rosenkilde defeat ole olsen at west ham. At the time those results made headline news, these days most riders of a decent standard can beat the top men every now and again! Okay, so everything is fine. Just put more dirt down down get better racing, open more tracks and they will come. Everything that speedway could be compared with in the 50's, 60's and 70's is of course in the same position as speedway. That's how it works. the only people that can change speedway in this country are those that hold the purse strings. If the promoters don't want change, what can us fans do about it, apart from vote with our feet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 If the promoters don't want change, what can us fans do about it, apart from vote with our feet! Many people, my friend, do appear to be voting with their feet. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruffdiamond Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 Just what I have been saying on this forum for weeks now. Speedway has gone down hill for some years now, the true speedway we used to see where riders rode as a pair have long gone out of the window., as you say open the trottle and go, it dosen't make very interesting speedway. I used to love it at Long Eaton, watching riders race as they should do these days looking after thier team mate, not worring if they came first and boosting thier averages. But getting 2 team memebers past the line in 1st and 2nd place. It was a skill in those days and I wonder if many riders these days even know how to ride a race like that, they just seem to have this, tunnel vision of winning, without even bothering what thier other rider is doing. Bring the dirt back on the track, change they engines if need be and the bikes. It is up to the sports governing bodies to not just sit back but to promote speedway in the media and get it back to what it was in it's heyday. Because at the moment it is nothing but a minority sport. When years ago people used to come to speedway and enjoy it and enjoy the racing. I think we lost a lot of spectators when the riders, strted to alter the way that they went about thier trackcraft. Lets take a good look at the sport and lets turn it round again. It can work, but at the moment, we are paying admission prices to go and see what is not speedway as it should be. it's down to money,,, and the root of it all :-( I hear what you are saying Deano - but - as one of those folk who are 'too old' - might I remind you that it is probably because of us, that there is any Speedway to watch in this Country at all. Just a thought. agree :-) Have you been to Poland and "witnessed" a league match in the flesh? I was pretty critical of Poland and it's dominating ways in which it "owns" riders and dictates where and when they ride. Tell me where in British speedway can you go to a place youngsters go and drink a pint of beer in a glass with the local teams riders etched in? Tell me where in Britain you can go to a shop with a coffee bar selling advance tickets and showing none stop speedway with people sat down on sofa's enjoying the view. Tell me where in British speedway you can buy clothes that look good on twenty somethings and not designed specifically for the "grey scene". At that from a shop in a modern environment, not from a guy with a decorators table of badges laid out. Tell me where in british speedway do 5,000+ fans before a league match congregate in the town square and march singing and chanting a designated route to the stadium lined with riot vans and riot police!!! Being filmed by local media, newpapers and fans like a carnival. Tell me where in British Speedway league matches take part in a Cardiff style stadium with Cardiff style views. Tell me where in Britain you walk through a town with a speedway logo on and people stop you and chant the club song. Why is it in Poland you have 14 riders that cover the circuit within a few milli seconds of each other, creating one race, not two! British speedway is the equivalent to attending a sunday morning church service, drab and boring, compared to what I joined in with the weekend. Constant song singing, constant chanting trying to out do the 800 travelling fans, yes 800 travelling fans. but is'nt Poland regarded as being way behind the 'western world' ???,,, there may lie the problem :-(,,, is there a 'Winns' in Poland ???,,, :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 So how is British speedway going to persuade the councils to buy all the tracks up, redevelop them akin to the Polish tracks and then get big business to invest in them? Then get all the youngsters to attend in the local areas? Is it all about the love of their home town/city clubs for the fans in Poland or is it because of the cheap booze and the atmosphere? Or perhaps a combination of everything? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 i guess its what gripped you to begin with. what gripped me was things you took for granted the smell, music team feel (which i dont see/feel anymore), riders swapping race jackets every night, awful.. tac sub rule...imo it gave managers tactical moves,i never minded ht8 being a 5.1 oppertunity.. who ever invented lge points for losing? if riders are paid per point, they should being racing for every point whatever.. keep it simple! individual colour leathers, they had charactor putting N.L riders in top lge? no thank you, when riders learned the trade and ready by own rights, then yes these are my opinions,i dont try to opese anyone, for me, speedway is finished as its lost credibility, until a team is a team and 7 riders compete for 1 team only, its no longer for me. the fact i bother to be on this site is because i still like the sport, but its sad its in this state..it was great, it could be great again.. the ol style golden helmet was a major excitement for me, a rider only turning up to defend it, challenge for it, when his team wasnt even in town..great draw that was 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 Have you been to Poland and "witnessed" a league match in the flesh? I was pretty critical of Poland and it's dominating ways in which it "owns" riders and dictates where and when they ride. Tell me where in British speedway can you go to a place youngsters go and drink a pint of beer in a glass with the local teams riders etched in? Tell me where in Britain you can go to a shop with a coffee bar selling advance tickets and showing none stop speedway with people sat down on sofa's enjoying the view. Tell me where in British speedway you can buy clothes that look good on twenty somethings and not designed specifically for the "grey scene". At that from a shop in a modern environment, not from a guy with a decorators table of badges laid out. Tell me where in british speedway do 5,000+ fans before a league match congregate in the town square and march singing and chanting a designated route to the stadium lined with riot vans and riot police!!! Being filmed by local media, newpapers and fans like a carnival. Tell me where in British Speedway league matches take part in a Cardiff style stadium with Cardiff style views. Tell me where in Britain you walk through a town with a speedway logo on and people stop you and chant the club song. Why is it in Poland you have 14 riders that cover the circuit within a few milli seconds of each other, creating one race, not two! British speedway is the equivalent to attending a sunday morning church service, drab and boring, compared to what I joined in with the weekend. Constant song singing, constant chanting trying to out do the 800 travelling fans, yes 800 travelling fans. But none of the above are the responsibility or the fault of the so called 'Old Brigade' for which you appear to have so little respect - even though the 'Old Brigade' demographic is largely who you have to thank for having any Speedway at all to watch. It is nothing to do with the 'Elder' Supporters - but - EVERYTHING to do with the way the Sport is run in this Country. I suspect the answer to all of those questions is nowhere. But the comparison is, I would say, an unfair one. Its a bit like making a comparison between American baseball and its British equivalent, or Canadian Ice Hockey and that in this country.........or football in this country and football in Poland. Its simply the biggest sport out there and with that comes all the trappings you have mentioned. In Britain speedway is a minority sport and even back in the 1970's when it was far more popular than it is now it was still a minority sport, at least in terms of the press coverage. From what I have seen of Polish speedway on the internet on Sunday afternoons, the quality of the racing is in general no better than that over here. The attraction therefore is not the racing, but everything that goes with it. Trees has, for me, made two excellent points. For a start, success is cyclical. In the 1970's, the top Polish riders - Plech, Jancarz, Cieslak, Proch, Huszcza - all rode in this country. Poland, then, was a back water just as Britain is now. There's nothing to say that things won't change back again. But most importantly, she has pointed out why most people go to speedway (possibly after the fact that they like the sport anyway) : to support their team. How many of us can get truly passionate about a team that is in another country when we can watch our own local one every week and just down the road ? Speaking as someone who doesn't follow a team but did a while ago (and may indeed do so again) being a neutral just isn't the same whatever the other circumstances might be. Great post, Vince. My Dad went in the 1950's to watch a teenage Ronnie Moore ride. When he heard I was going his comment was 'first out of the gate always wins'. I must admit I think this 'two races in one' argument is rubbish, too. Looking at my 1979 year book, we had 8 riders averaging over 10 points a much and 13 over 9.5. Currently, we have 1 over 9.5.There were no less than 51 averaging less than 4.5 (albeit that many only rode in about half the matches). What do think happened when heat leaders of that strength and second strings or reserves on those averages were in the same race ? Go back a bit further and you had the likes of Briggs, Mauger, Olsen & Boocock averaging over 11 for a season - the only people who beat them were each other. If anything, I'd say the gap between the top riders and the bottom ones has narrowed. I wouldn't argue with that. I would say though that standards have dropped and whilst the poorer Riders are better - the top Riders are not as good as in years gone by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 also having managers/promoters like silver/berry etc who could use the local press to build a match up by giving it edge, a bit of needle, rivalry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruffdiamond Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 But none of the above are the responsibility or the fault of the so called 'Old Brigade' for which you appear to have so little respect - even though the 'Old Brigade' demographic is largely who you have to thank for having any Speedway at all to watch. It is nothing to do with the 'Elder' Supporters - but - EVERYTHING to do with the way the Sport is run in this Country. I wouldn't argue with that. I would say though that standards have dropped and whilst the poorer Riders are better - the top Riders are not as good as in years gone by. maybe the 'older generation' should not have let it become how it is ;-) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 So what's happened over the years to our speedway, old promoters have sold all the best stadiums off for housing/development. The first promoters of the sport didn't put British Speedway onto a form footing, they just treated it as a money making show and when the crowds started to dwindle they cut and ran! So now what's the answer to all that's gone wrong in the past? Of course the promoters need to work harder, the riders need to do their bit too, that's what their conferences should be for, to share some great ideas to increase the popularity .......????? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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