ruffdiamond Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 That isn't what I was getting at sidney. My point is that was as pointed out earlier in the Thread - back in the 70s there were numerous (comparatively) Riders with an Average of 10 Points plus. Some even had an 11 Point plus Average - nowadays according to the earlier Poster there is only ONE Rider with a 9.5 plus Average. This suggests that the top echelon of Riders, in our era today, are not as good as the Riders of yesteryear in their era. Comparisons of Riders in different Eras are very difficult, but to me, the figures speak for themselves. would'nt agree with that,,, I think it's because now, the poorer rider's are'nt as poor as they used to be,,, it's not like you to agree with the figures ;-) Although we rememeber these days with mostly fondness, I would take some of today's Speedway stuff and add it to those days.. The air fences, modern day helmets and other life protection devices and that's about it I think...... What does that tell us about modern day Speedway racing.....? their not as tough as they used to be,,, 'they don't build them like that anymore',,, wait until they invent 'cotton wool kevlars' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandorum Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 I was there and lived the moment in a filled two tier stadium... not an oldy in sight. Where did I blame oldies for the state of speedway. The fact is British fans are dying and not being replenished, is a fact that shouldn't be ignored. In fact the British contingent (who incidently rarely go to speedway in Britain anymore) were the eldest there!!!! So yes, pulled straight from my ...... Fair point it just seemed to me that way. I guess soon Brit speedway will be thankful if it was visited by the police never mind OAPs I don't think the sport here can be saved sadly but as long as Poole win the EL like David Mitchell would say 'everything is fine'.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 "As Cityrebel has said, Jim Tebby beating Ivan Mauger was headline news. A second string beating a top rider today is anything but." i remember the fuss when Arnold Haley beat Ivan Mauger - and he was a heat leader!! I think there was a leader in The Times about that one 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wealdstone Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 There has never been much passing or overtaking in Speedway. Even in the handicap days most of the handicapped riders made up most of the distance by fast starts. Many riders do not have the abiity to pass even on faster machinery due to the line that they prefer to ride.Peter Collins was an exception. The great Ove Fundin rarely strayed from the inside line. It is impossible to compare Speedway then and now due to the vastly different machinery now used. What is clear is that there were more Stars in years gone by and people would go just to see them. We do not have that anymore in Gt Britain with possible exception of the Turbo Twins and arguably Woffinden. Spectators at all sports are declining rapidly the only exception being Premier League Football, which probably goes to prove that fans still turn up to see the best. What IMO BSPA have done and do wrong is to fail to try to improve the product to attract more fans but cope by continually bringing everything down to a lower level whilst increasing the prices. To achieve this those with vision and funds above the norm have been driven away in frustration. One promoter when responding recently to a comment by fans regarding an aspect of his promotion remarked that it was all part of the show. Regretfully the show to which he refers does not exist anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandorum Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) With the news that a city like Birmingham can't make the sport pay then it's looking very grim for the rest. Probably have an EL with Poole and Kings Lynn and the rest in a much smaller PL next year. Funny how the BSPA are rallying to the cause now the sh#t has hit the fan but were not there when they were needed. Their record of keeping tracks alive is not very good so sadly it looks like Birmingham will soon join an illustrious line of former tracks. As someone asked earlier does this sport deserve to survive here? No looks like the correct answer sadly Edited June 25, 2014 by pandorum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike.Butler Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 Spectators at all sports are declining rapidly the only exception being Premier League Football, which probably goes to prove that fans still turn up to see the best. That's incorrect. Spectator levels in the Football league continue to increase year on year and I do believe premiership Rugby Union also.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) If you had the top riders spread over 18 teams, with number ones having the choice of gates and riding the old 13 heat formula where they raced each other just once and included bonus points in their average you'd get plenty of 10 point plus riders. It's nothing to do with how good they were then and now. I don't see a Mauger or a Neilsen, though, who would consistently average over 11. Edited June 25, 2014 by grachan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 *+I may be a great event in Poland, but I would think twice about taking my 9 year old granson with me as I do now. With riot vans and riot police lining the route to the stadium and in the street that surreound it. Does not sound a very nice atmosphere to me at all. Give me a nice relaxed British stadium any day. Only thing I would like to see if stadiums like the ones they build in Poland, most of ours are the same as they where in the 60's and 70's with very little money being put into doing anything with them, some are an absolute disgrace. Sorry, forgot to answer this. There were plenty of kids in the march, some on shoulders, some not and walking. In fact knowing the police were there actually made it feel safer. 5000+ people heading down a designated route can be intimidating in itself, so some control is needed if there are a couple of idiots. But none of the above are the responsibility or the fault of the so called 'Old Brigade' for which you appear to have so little respect - even though the 'Old Brigade' demographic is largely who you have to thank for having any Speedway at all to watch. Read my post again, I haven't blamed the old brigade for the demise of speedway. I said and mean the demographic profile of speedway in this country is tipping too much into the coffin dodger territory for this sport to have a future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) at the risk of sounding like an old fart - those were indeed the days await your like TWK! You've got it. Just got back from the Comrades Club. Nice Coffee and Scones. In the 1970's and 80's there weren't any 7 rides a match, ringer reserves which has been partially removed this season with the draft system.. Bikes were simpler, cheaper to service, needed less services, however, breakdowns were more common I think, races were not stopped so quickly, if a rider fell, the track staffs main responsibility was to get the bike off the track, and the races continued, shale was dragged back between every race by the track staff, and further spread by tractor grading after EVERY race.. There were second halves to meetings where the heatleaders and second strings competed against each other and the reserves had more races, juniors competed in small mini matches, and after all that, complete novices were allowed out on track!! EEEEEK!! Tracks suffered from less rain-offs, riders cornered later, and race times were slower, guest riders were around, but rare and usually used for injured heat leaders absences only (I think). British Finals were at Brandon, on Sundays, in front of huge, sell outs, with 16 top notch British heat leaders.... Helmet colours kept falling off helmets, and the BELL MOTO 3 was the helmet of choice, and Preston Petty Mini Mudders were the in vogue front mudguards.. Handlebars were Speedway handlebars, you could still get British engines! Super Post. Those were, indeed, the days. Sorry, forgot to answer this. There were plenty of kids in the march, some on shoulders, some not and walking. In fact knowing the police were there actually made it feel safer. 5000+ people heading down a designated route can be intimidating in itself, so some control is needed if there are a couple of idiots. Read my post again, I haven't blamed the old brigade for the demise of speedway. I said and mean the demographic profile of speedway in this country is tipping too much into the coffin dodger territory for this sport to have a future. Damn!!!! - there goes another one. I just managed to dodge that one too. Coffins. Edited June 25, 2014 by The White Knight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 So what would get our young people to speedway? A good, cheap bar and music with speedway as a side show on TVs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 i dont think league speedway in its current form is marketable myself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattK Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 So what would get our young people to speedway? A good, cheap bar and music with speedway as a side show on TVs? Personally, I don't think young people are the future of speedway. £21 to attend a speedway meeting (£17 entry, £2.50 programme and £1.50 parking) is simply too much. To put it another way, it's a new Xbox One/PS4 game every two meetings. Given that the majority of speedway's current crowd are over 50, why not promote the sport at that market? Older people are minted (thanks to no dependants and very generous state pensions) so have plenty of disposable income. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 Personally, I don't think young people are the future of speedway. £21 to attend a speedway meeting (£17 entry, £2.50 programme and £1.50 parking) is simply too much. To put it another way, it's a new Xbox One/PS4 game every two meetings. Given that the majority of speedway's current crowd are over 50, why not promote the sport at that market? Older people are minted (thanks to no dependants and very generous state pensions) so have plenty of disposable income. That will be YOU one day Matt. :nono: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) That isn't what I was getting at sidney. My point is that was as pointed out earlier in the Thread - back in the 70s there were numerous (comparatively) Riders with an Average of 10 Points plus. Some even had an 11 Point plus Average - nowadays according to the earlier Poster there is only ONE Rider with a 9.5 plus Average. This suggests that the top echelon of Riders, in our era today, are not as good as the Riders of yesteryear in their era. Comparisons of Riders in different Eras are very difficult, but to me, the figures speak for themselves. Is that WK because of the way the averages are done now?( ie) bonus points (ect) i am sure Bewitcher, Oldace,( ect) will tell us because they have in the past been right and myself i have been nieve with the averages.But WK you are correct the riders then there was more strength in depth someone like Chris Pusey, Bob Kilby, Soren Sjosten a few examples were sometimes only heatleaders that tells me alot would they be no1s now?. Personally, I don't think young people are the future of speedway. £21 to attend a speedway meeting (£17 entry, £2.50 programme and £1.50 parking) is simply too much. To put it another way, it's a new Xbox One/PS4 game every two meetings. Given that the majority of speedway's current crowd are over 50, why not promote the sport at that market? Older people are minted (thanks to no dependants and very generous state pensions) so have plenty of disposable income. Matt touch wood that will be you one day mind you how old are you 60.? only joking! surely all age groups are welcome? Edited June 25, 2014 by sidney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattK Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 Matt touch wood that will be you one day mind you how old are you 60.? only joking! surely all age groups are welcome? All age groups are welcome, but speedway's biggest problem is that it tries to be all things to all people. An extreme sport and a family sport. Appealing to youngsters as well as continuing to attract the older generation. What happens is that it fails to be any of those things. It is not extreme enough (in both racing and presentation) to attract youngsters, but it too expensive to attract families en masse. Speedway needs to pick a group and market at those people. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 quite agree matt, every business needs a set market, but product must be right , and its nowhere near right 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Science Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 They aren't coming to watch the Crowd though, are they? They are coming to watch the Racing and enjoy the Meeting. If the Racing can't hold their interest - then the demographic won't matter will it?. Speedway seems to have has lost its way in keeping the next generation of fans after they have been introduced by their parents. I was introduced by my parents and was instantly hooked by the smell,the noise,the speed,the racing and the atmosphere, particularly that of a derby match.Well the smell has gone,the noise has gone and the atmosphere has gone,on top of that the racing is nowhere near as good as it used to be .If I was introduced today don't think there would enough to hook me to attend week in week out ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) The smell could be sorted immediately if only Castrol R was allowed to be used mmmmmmmm The atmosphere is up to the fans I guess, fans are either noisy supporting their team (Cradley) or indifferent (KL at times)! But promoters could attempt to encourage the fans more by a good, speedway loving mic man for starters! Edited June 25, 2014 by Trees Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluPanther Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 Hate to say it, but Speedway can't be saved. You will never attract the young generation, it's the age of technology. Spending two plus hours in a shoddy stadium to watch 15 minutes of action is no longer an attraction to the modern youngster. It's also too expensive for families, my local Ipswich team don't even offer a cheap family ticket, which i know for a fact keeps dozens of families from attending. When kids get in free you see much bigger crowds at Foxhall, but the promotion never learn by it and lots of potential new fans never return... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Science Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 The smell could be sorted immediately if only Castrol R was allowed to be used mmmmmmmm The atmosphere is up to the fans I guess, fans are either noisy supporting their team (Cradley) or indifferent (KL at times)! But promoters could attempt to encourage the fans more by a good, speedway loving mic man for starters! The quality of the speedway dictates the atmosphere not just the name of the team ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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