Save Speedway

[The White Knight]

maybe the 'older generation' should not have let it become how it is ;-)

You are dead right about that.

 

I would be interested to know though, how we could have done it. We were not responsible for the state Speedway is in today - we kept the faith and paid our money. Now if you have a look at the BSPA, the SCB, and the FIM - you may be nearer the mark.

 

Only one problem - we 'oldies' do not run Speedway - we only pay for it along with everyone else.

[Trees]

I'd be rolling in it if I had all the money I'd paid for British Speedway over the years! Lol. Got my money's worth most of the time ;-)

[SpeedwayTShirts]

 

Many people, my friend, do appear to be voting with their feet.

 

Your Polish trip sounded great mate. Inspired me to think about a visit. You planning anymore? i reckon a fair few people off here would be up for it. What'd be an approx cost for an in and out visit?

[weatherwatcher]

*+I may be a great event in Poland, but I would think twice about taking my 9 year old granson with me as I do now. With riot vans and riot police lining the route to the stadium and in the street that surreound it.

Does not sound a very nice atmosphere to me at all. Give me a nice relaxed British stadium any day. Only thing I would like to see if stadiums like the ones they build in Poland, most of ours are the same as they where in the 60's and 70's with very little money being put into doing anything with them, some are an absolute disgrace.

[Vince]

I wouldn't argue with that. I would say though that standards have dropped and whilst the poorer Riders are better - the top Riders are not as good as in years gone by.

 

Personally I would say the exact opposite and that the riders of today are the best ever. You can never know for sure as so much has changed but I have many more 'how the hell did he do that?' moments now than I used to.

 

Perhaps one of those who maintain the racing was so much closer in the old days could explain why they needed to handicap 5 riders in every race at one stage. Not only that but they could still win their fair share of races.

 

Speedway has always gone through it's ups and downs and I suspect the current number of clubs is at the upper end of the scale (though I haven't bothered to check). There are nowhere near so many people attending live sports these days with the exception of top league Football and the major annual events like the F1 GP or Wimbledon. Even Football has suffered in the lower leagues so Speedway is not alone.

 

Maybe we just have to accept that league Speedway has found a level that hopefully won't go too much lower and just like in the past will benefit from periods of increased popularity.

[ruffdiamond]

You are dead right about that.

 

I would be interested to know though, how we could have done it. We were not responsible for the state Speedway is in today - we kept the faith and paid our money. Now if you have a look at the BSPA, the SCB, and the FIM - you may be nearer the mark.

 

Only one problem - we 'oldies' do not run Speedway - we only pay for it along with everyone else.

maybe that was it,,, you could've moaned a bit more at the time !!!,,, :-)

[The White Knight]

maybe that was it,,, you could've moaned a bit more at the time !!!,,, :-)

Naughty.

 

We didn't have Forums then. If we had I may have done so. Just as today - I doubt if it would have done much good.

[stratton]

But none of the above are the responsibility or the fault of the so called 'Old Brigade' for which you appear to have so little respect - even though the 'Old Brigade' demographic is largely who you have to thank for having any Speedway at all to watch.

 

It is nothing to do with the 'Elder' Supporters - but - EVERYTHING to do with the way the Sport is run in this Country.

 

 

I wouldn't argue with that. I would say though that standards have dropped and whilst the poorer Riders are better - the top Riders are not as good as in years gone by.

I think some of the top stars today were certainly as good as the top boys then,but the quantity of those are nowhere near as many as yesteryear.

[pandorum]

Having just got back from Poland after watching a league match, I can say British Speedway is a lost cause. It's gone too far down hill, the whole demographic profile of the fan base is too old, too many anorak tendencies and just plain wrong. That's before we even get onto facilities.

 

If Polish Speedway is like Gateaux

 

British Speedway is like two day old cold custard in comparison.

Do you have any actual evidence for this 'old' demographic assertion or is this just something you have pulled out of your arce?

True in Poland there is a large element of young people but that was the case when I went to speedway when we had actual crowds instead of small knots of people milling around.

Have you done any polling or research into speedway crowds to back up your claims?

 

I watch Polish speedway all the time on TV and most times it is well supported and of a better standard but blaming old people for the state of British speedway seems to me as an old person a bit unfair

 

British speedway is in a mess due to lack of investment, lack of vision from those in charge and simply Zeitgeist.

The sport has never gotten to grips with the new century and as such many people have lost interest.

But the idea that speedway tracks are populated by old age pensioners is frankly fatuous and mildly insulting

 

I no longer attend as it's too expensive and as an old person I prefer to spend my money nowadays on more leisurely pursuits such as booze, foreign travel and heavy rock concerts but I am still a speedway fan and enjoy watching the many foreign leagues but hardly bother much with the EL on SKY as it's not very interesting.

That's speedways biggest problem here in the UK it is simply not very interesting.

It's demographic covers a wide spectrum of people but sadly there are not as many of them as there used to be

Edited June 25, 2014 by pandorum

[The White Knight]

I think some of the top stars today were certainly as good as the top boys then,but the quantity of those are nowhere near as many as yesteryear.

That isn't what I was getting at sidney.

 

My point is that was as pointed out earlier in the Thread - back in the 70s there were numerous (comparatively) Riders with an Average of 10 Points plus. Some even had an 11 Point plus Average - nowadays according to the earlier Poster there is only ONE Rider with a 9.5 plus Average. This suggests that the top echelon of Riders, in our era today, are not as good as the Riders of yesteryear in their era. Comparisons of Riders in different Eras are very difficult, but to me, the figures speak for themselves.

[pandorum]

Well said TWK

[ch958]

That isn't what I was getting at sidney.

 

My point is that was as pointed out earlier in the Thread - back in the 70s there were numerous (comparatively) Riders with an Average of 10 Points plus. Some even had an 11 Point plus Average - nowadays according to the earlier Poster there is only ONE Rider with a 9.5 plus Average. This suggests that the top echelon of Riders, in our era today, are not as good as the Riders of yesteryear in their era. Comparisons of Riders in different Eras are very difficult, but to me, the figures speak for themselves.

 

no i disagree - what it says is that top riders met maybe twice a year and maybe sometimes only once during those meetings

 

now they probably meet 6/8 times and more often during the meeting, especially with the intro of nominated heats

[Mike.Butler]

home and away no. 1's only raced against each other in heat 1...looking back that was crap really wasn't it....the potential best clash of the theevening all over in heat 1 unless of course they met in the 2nd half. These days top riders meet each other 3 times...so not a comparison..The British Final though did show up the dearth of world class riders we have, so If it were the old 13 heat format now there would be a handful of GP riders above 10 i would suggest.

Edited June 25, 2014 by Mike.Butler

[Shale Searcher]

In the 1970's and 80's there weren't any 7 rides a match, ringer reserves which has been partially removed this season with the draft system.. Bikes were simpler, cheaper to service, needed less services, however, breakdowns were more common I think, races were not stopped so quickly, if a rider fell, the track staffs main responsibility was to get the bike off the track, and the races continued, shale was dragged back between every race by the track staff, and further spread by tractor grading after EVERY race.. There were second halves to meetings where the heatleaders and second strings competed against each other and the reserves had more races, juniors competed in small mini matches, and after all that, complete novices were allowed out on track!! EEEEEK!!

Tracks suffered from less rain-offs, riders cornered later, and race times were slower, guest riders were around, but rare and usually used for injured heat leaders absences only (I think). British Finals were at Brandon, on Sundays, in front of huge, sell outs, with 16 top notch British heat leaders.... Helmet colours kept falling off helmets, and the BELL MOTO 3 was the helmet of choice, and Preston Petty Mini Mudders were the in vogue front mudguards.. Handlebars were Speedway handlebars, you could still get British engines!

Edited June 25, 2014 by Shale Searcher

[ch958]

In the 1970's and 80's there weren't any 7 rides a match, ringer reserves which has been partially removed this season with the draft system.. Bikes were simpler, cheaper to service, needed less services, however, breakdowns were more common I think, races were not stopped so quickly, if a rider fell, the track staffs main responsibility was to get the bike off the track, and the races continued, shale was dragged back between every race by the track staff, and further spread by tractor grading after EVERY race.. There were second halves to meetings where the heatleaders and second strings competed against each other and the reserves had more races, juniors competed in small mini matches, and after all that, complete novices were allowed out on track!! EEEEEK!!

Tracks suffered from less rain-offs, riders cornered later, and race times were slower, guest riders were around, but rare and usually used for injured heat leaders absences only (I think). British Finals were at Brandon, on Sundays, in front of huge, sell outs, with 16 top notch British heat leaders.... Helmet colours kept falling off helmets, and the BELL MOTO 3 was the helmet of choice, and Preston Petty Mini Mudders were the in vogue front mudguards.. Handlebars were Speedway handlebars, you could still get British engines!

 

at the risk of sounding like an old fart - those were indeed the days

await your like TWK!

[Deano]

Do you have any actual evidence for this 'old' demographic assertion or is this just something you have pulled out of your arce?

I was there and lived the moment in a filled two tier stadium... not an oldy in sight. Where did I blame oldies for the state of speedway. The fact is British fans are dying and not being replenished, is a fact that shouldn't be ignored.

 

In fact the British contingent (who incidently rarely go to speedway in Britain anymore) were the eldest there!!!!

 

So yes, pulled straight from my ......

[Fromafar]

home and away no. 1's only raced against each other in heat 1...looking back that was crap really wasn't it....the potential best clash of the theevening all over in heat 1 unless of course they met in the 2nd half. These days top riders meet each other 3 times...so not a comparison..The British Final though did show up the dearth of world class riders we have, so If it were the old 13 heat format now there would be a handful of GP riders above 10 i would suggest.

 

The BritishFinal showed what the standard of rider Britain has regarding World Class.Compare that to previous era's ,it shows how standards have dropped.IMO there were 3riders who could at their best been considered World Class.the rest won't even make that standard.

[Deano]

Your Polish trip sounded great mate. Inspired me to think about a visit. You planning anymore? i reckon a fair few people off here would be up for it. What'd be an approx cost for an in and out visit?

There are people going this year for the play offs etc. But won't be doing them myself.

 

I'll be going again next year and I'll put together what it cost me in a PM to you mate.

[Shale Searcher]

 

at the risk of sounding like an old fart - those were indeed the days

await your like TWK!

Although we rememeber these days with mostly fondness, I would take some of today's Speedway stuff and add it to those days..

The air fences, modern day helmets and other life protection devices and that's about it I think...... What does that tell us about modern day Speedway racing.....?

[Halifaxtiger]

Okay, so everything is fine. Just put more dirt down down get better racing, open more tracks and they will come.

 

Everything that speedway could be compared with in the 50's, 60's and 70's is of course in the same position as speedway. That's how it works.

 

I don't think that even the most optimistic fan thinks that everything is fine, and putting dirt down on tracks isn't the answer to my mind.

 

I think you have to start with the basics and that is ensuring that the product is as good as it can be on as many occasions as it can be. Tracks can't always be perfect for racing but I am simply not convinced that everything is done to ensure that is the case as often as it should be. 'Good enough is good enough' seems to be the way to do things on occasion, with the long suffering fan taken for granted.

 

I also get annoyed when I hear riders complaining and promoters setting tracks up for them. In which other business do the needs of paid employees come before paying customers ? Set the tracks up for what customers want: racing, and then take it from there.

 

 

 

 

no i disagree - what it says is that top riders met maybe twice a year and maybe sometimes only once during those meetings

 

now they probably meet 6/8 times and more often during the meeting, especially with the intro of nominated heats

 

That's fair point and one which I overlooked in my initial analysis.

 

Would there be riders averaging over 10 now if the old heat 13 meeting system was in force ? Possibly. Over 11 ? Doubt it very much.

 

I'd still maintain, though, that the gap between the top riders and the others has narrowed - not because the top riders have got worse, but because of the others getting better. That means that the two races in one is something we have pretty much always had and is indeed less likely these days than before.

 

As Cityrebel has said, Jim Tebby beating Ivan Mauger was headline news. A second string beating a top rider today is anything but.