Wolfsbane Posted June 12, 2014 Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 Are you seriously saying that the FTD system ISN'T helping develop young UK riders though? Yes, it may help to cut costs too, but it does help young UK riders as well. What's the problem with either of those? I've had a relook at my post to see where I said the FTD isn't developing young riders. Errrr nope, can't see that, most likely because it isn't there. No problem with either of those at all. My problem is with the BSPA being happy to take credit for finally getting round helping the young ones develop but omitting to mention the cost savings it will bring to it's members. I find that if you're going to quote a post then it helps to actually read what it says first. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointsmeanplayoffs Posted June 12, 2014 Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 I've had a relook at my post to see where I said the FTD isn't developing young riders. Errrr nope, can't see that, most likely because it isn't there. No problem with either of those at all. My problem is with the BSPA being happy to take credit for finally getting round helping the young ones develop but omitting to mention the cost savings it will bring to it's members. I find that if you're going to quote a post then it helps to actually read what it says first. They are PROMOTERS what do you expect?!? They focus on the positives and gloss over the negatives. It's not in the promoters interests to shout about the fact that they are cutting budgets/rider quality is it? You're not going to attract/retain new supporters by admitting the 'product' is weaker are you? Do they actually need to mention the cost saving to it's members?!?! It's pretty obvious when you see a young UK rider at reserve and not someone like Thomas H Jonasson as in recent years!!! Surely the fact that we still have 10 clubs up and running in the EL is proof enough of promoters being able to cut costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semion Posted June 12, 2014 Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 If gates are still falling,at certain Elite League teams, as I have seen reported on here by certain members, what can they do next to cut costs ? How much further does it have to drop before its at an end ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfsbane Posted June 12, 2014 Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 They are PROMOTERS what do you expect?!? They focus on the positives and gloss over the negatives. It's not in the promoters interests to shout about the fact that they are cutting budgets/rider quality is it? You're not going to attract/retain new supporters by admitting the 'product' is weaker are you? Do they actually need to mention the cost saving to it's members?!?! It's pretty obvious when you see a young UK rider at reserve and not someone like Thomas H Jonasson as in recent years!!! Surely the fact that we still have 10 clubs up and running in the EL is proof enough of promoters being able to cut costs. Looks like we'll have to agree to disagree on this one PMP If gates are still falling,at certain Elite League teams, as I have seen reported on here by certain members, what can they do next to cut costs ? How much further does it have to drop before its at an end ? As long as the PL devalue their product everytime the EL do then the status quo is maintained. If they don't then we end up with one product. If/when that happens what's the betting the 'EL' don't drop their prices to 'PL' levels. It'll be the opposite way around and then the BSPA can congratulate themselves on cutting costs bringing the sport to the lowest common denominator whilst still charging a premium price for an inferior product. Everywhere you look they're all at it. Cutting and cutting till the pips squeal. All that's left then is to squeeze the pips Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adder Posted June 12, 2014 Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 Why not have a Number 8 that could be used should one of the draft riders get injured early in the meeting? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreverstars Posted June 12, 2014 Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 I've started this thread to voice my opinion on something I witnessed at King's Lynn yesterday evening and something I know has happened for other clubs this season. Last night Morris for Wolves got injured in his second ride and as a result there was only one Wolves rider in heat 9. I will admit that this is only my second season as a speedway fan so I'm not entirely sure of the history or rulings surrounding this topic, however, even as a Lynn fan, I feel Wolves should have had the option for their 2 or 4 to replace Morris in heat 9 ensuring a fairer 4 rider race. I know there was one meeting recently (although I can't remember which) where there were two riders in heat 9 due to injury so surely a second string replacement option for a withdrawal would make for more exciting racing and help the development of the FTRs?The reason being that certain team managers may invent an injury for their out of sorts reserve and bring in their in form no2 or 4.Imagine if after Mallet had crashed out as he did the other week and we could have brought in Porsing.The guy got a fifteen point max the other week and even left Iversen trailing.Not a fair swap me thinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMW Posted June 15, 2014 Report Share Posted June 15, 2014 (edited) I didn't ask to be belittled.You need to undestand the rules of the forum. If you don't think or post like the forum pro's you are talking rubbish. Quite often in the old format a reserve will get injured in ht 2 and then you will also get some 3 rider races. Edited June 15, 2014 by TMW 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted June 15, 2014 Report Share Posted June 15, 2014 (edited) Quite often in the old format a reserve will get injured in ht 2 and then you will also get some 3 rider races.The difference is that if both reserves are injured you can get a 5-0 non race in heat 9. For those situations I think this is an innovative idea: What about allowing the lowest averaged of the top 5 riders to take the place of the (genuinly) injured reserve... but off a 15 metre handicap...Incidentally this situation is not new. In 1997's Premier League the format included supplementary reserves and in 1993 there were two junior heats. The 1993 regs contained a specific provision that if both reserves were injured then the lowest average rider from the main body of the team could ride in the reserves race. (I did see it used once at Long Eaton (Peterboro's Alan Mogridge won the race against Long Eaton's two reserves - so unusual I even wrote the rule no in my programme: 88a) Edited June 15, 2014 by arnieg 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marko Posted June 15, 2014 Report Share Posted June 15, 2014 Yes there is certainly a potential issue when one reserve gets injured under this system because in the past they have been able to cover each others subsequent rides as they only raced together once in heat two, that said i do like them racing twice reserves vs reserves because its part of the appeal to getting them to agree to ride at this level in the first place and also it makes having good reserves just that little bit more important. I firmly believe next season clubs will look at these positions with even more scrutiny than maybe they did this season such is the vital part they play in the team. Would not help every match but i think when a team is using rider replacement, the named number eight should also be allowed to replace a reserve should one or both get injured during the meeting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelvinht Posted June 15, 2014 Report Share Posted June 15, 2014 What about allowing the lowest averaged of the top 5 riders to take the place of the (genuinly) injured reserve... but off a 15 metre handicap... Just a thought as a way to keep it a 4 rider race... Exactly what I was thinking as I started to read this thread... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTM Posted June 15, 2014 Report Share Posted June 15, 2014 Felt I had to comment on this. I've watched quite a few meetings this year on Sky and Bet365. Maybe I'm strange but I've found the FTR races hugely entertaining and the quality of the racing in them on a par with the other heats in the meetings. Yes there have been fallers, there are more mistakes leading to more overtaking but if you watch purely to be entertained and not just to see your own team win, for me the FTR races are a massive move for good by the BSPA. Whether they were brought in to save money (probably) or to bring on British youngsters (a handy by-product ) IMHO they have been great. From what I can see the only fans with a massive downer on them en masse seem to come from Wiltshire. Maybe they would be better asking their club what they intend to do to improve matters next season and what their top riders can do to assist the FTRs they have this season. It's obvious that top riders from many clubs are helping the youngsters and that can only be a good thing and has born fruit for several clubs. As for No 8s - I'd guess most if not all clubs have a couple of juniors living within 20-30 miles, pay them travelling expenses and I'd guess most would jump at the chance to attend as a number 8. They may not get track time but purely by being in the same pits as the EL riders they will learn a lot. If each track provide 2 juniors they could be allocated to home and away team by drawing lots. Win win situation cos no more 3 riders races and the juniors get experience. OK rant over. Careful Star Lady you may be accused of talking a lot of sense especially with your comments on No. 8s which is much more than the Promoters can be guilty of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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