15 Metre Penalty / Gate Changes

[Mark]

Tonights Belle Vue vs Lakeside fixture highlights a problem with the rules.

 

In heat 1 Lakeside have the favoured gate 4 but Zagar goes through the tapes. Maybe it was deliberate or not but Lakeside now on 1 & 3. In heat 15 Nicholls goes through the tapes from 2 so he goes off 15 metres but Zagar has to swap to gate 2 from 4

 

With the 15 metre penalty why do they have to change gates as there is plenty of room from the start to first bend.

[Yikes]

If someone was still in gate 4 and flipped the bike or just lost power the rider off 15 could go straight through them, also have to have clear sight of the tapes?

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

The theory is a safety issue.

 

If the rider was to go off 15 from gate 2 and one of the riders off 1 or 3 broke down 5 metres from the tapes the likely hood of a collision is greatly increased.

 

From 4 it should be less likely given the expected funnell into turn 1.

[Mark]

Fine but why not start 15 metres back but still in line with the gate in which originally drawn.

[Shale Searcher]

Fine but why not start 15 metres back but still in line with the gate in which originally drawn.

See end of attached post!

There's a natural funnelling into the first bend, starting from gate 4 from 15 metres behind gives a safe run to first bend, no incursion from the outside on gate 4, gates 1, 2 and 3 will be heading for the insideish of the first corner, gate 4 is the only safe place to go from any distance behind the natural gate positions..

 

Still, the rule needs looking into as its a way of getting A rider off a chosen gate without breaking a single rule......

[The Voice Of Reason]

Or let's just scrap this idiotic 15 metre rule altogether.

 

Let's get back to the days when riders could rock and roll/touch the tapes without breaking them. If they do break them, then they are replaced by a reserve. Or if a reserve breaks them in a reserves race with no replacement, then tough.

 

Since we've had this ridiculous ruling of all 4 riders staying still, we just now see countless apparent 'unsatisfactory starts' due to movement. We've also seen countless re-starts when riders have been penalised for apparently 'getting a flyer'. Why should a rider be penalised if he anticipates it perfectly - he knows the consequences if he doesn't.

 

And these 'unsatisfactory starts' inevitably waste even more time given that more often than not, all four riders decide to return to the pits to sod about with their clutch, etc. causing even longer delays.........irrespective of them being on a two minute warning.

 

The entire start-line process is just a complete and utter farce.

[BWitcher]

Or let's just scrap this idiotic 15 metre rule altogether.

 

Let's get back to the days when riders could rock and roll/touch the tapes without breaking them. If they do break them, then they are replaced by a reserve. Or if a reserve breaks them in a reserves race with no replacement, then tough.

 

Since we've had this ridiculous ruling of all 4 riders staying still, we just now see countless apparent 'unsatisfactory starts' due to movement. We've also seen countless re-starts when riders have been penalised for apparently 'getting a flyer'. Why should a rider be penalised if he anticipates it perfectly - he knows the consequences if he doesn't.

 

And these 'unsatisfactory starts' inevitably waste even more time given that more often than not, all four riders decide to return to the pits to sod about with their clutch, etc. causing even longer delays.........irrespective of them being on a two minute warning.

 

The entire start-line process is just a complete and utter farce.

 

Oh dear oh dear oh dear.

 

There was nothing more farcical than how it used to be. One of the few things speedway has changed over the years that has been an improvement is most certainly the starting.

[The Voice Of Reason]

Respect your opinion, but in a word -How?

[raymondbudd]

Agreed, one of the few decent rule changes has to be keeping still at the tapes. It's not perfect in that refs sometimes pull it back. However the old way was almost farcical.

[kingbee]

Oh dear oh dear oh dear.

 

There was nothing more farcical than how it used to be. One of the few things speedway has changed over the years that has been an improvement is most certainly the starting.

Ivan Mauger loved the old way that's how he won most of his races I agree with you can't go back to that

[CB252]

I love watching old footage of racing in the early 80's when the riders were rolling and nudging the tapes and you could almost feel the tension as it added to the anticipation and excitement of the race.

 

The current 'everyone sit still' mehod is just sterile and boring and contibutes to dull Speedway. In the past your top rider might get caught out trying to get a flyer and have to pick his way through from the back.

 

Nowadays, nine times out of ten, your top rider just clears off from the gate and that's the end of it.

[Humphrey Appleby]

If the rider was to go off 15 from gate 2 and one of the riders off 1 or 3 broke down 5 metres from the tapes the likely hood of a collision is greatly increased.

From 4 it should be less likely given the expected funnell into turn 1.

It's actually more to do with the safety of the start marshal at the tapes.

Agreed, one of the few decent rule changes has to be keeping still at the tapes. It's not perfect in that refs sometimes pull it back. However the old way was almost farcical.

Yes, the tape touching rule was one of the better things introduced over the years.

[oldace]

It's actually more to do with the safety of the start marshal at the tapes.

 

Yes, the tape touching rule was one of the better things introduced over the years.

 

 

These days the start marshall moves away before the green light and it would be simple to just move to the centre green before they are under orders. The reason though is entirely the danger it would pose to the riders, although that said Ipswich used to do it with 4 riders starting from the handicap in the 16 lapper.

 

Indeed the tape touching rule is the best rule brought out in the last 30 years

[marko]

When the Supernation Marathon was staged at Arena Essex all those years ago the start Marshall would often run off the track in the eight man final, those eight man races over what was 12 laps were really something unique.

[woodenspoon]

Not the first time this has been used to change gate positions. As the "Voice of Reason" said, get rid of the 15 metre penalty, replace with reserve, or if it is a reserve then 3 riders only. This will not alter the gate positions, problem solved.

[BWitcher]

Not the first time this has been used to change gate positions. As the "Voice of Reason" said, get rid of the 15 metre penalty, replace with reserve, or if it is a reserve then 3 riders only. This will not alter the gate positions, problem solved.

 

Is there even a problem?

 

Lakeside got a 5-1.

 

The only time it would give you an advantage was if you felt gate 2 was the best gate to be off.. and you'd be sacrificing a rider to do it.

[Mark]

 

Is there even a problem?

 

Lakeside got a 5-1.

 

The only time it would give you an advantage was if you felt gate 2 was the best gate to be off.. and you'd be sacrificing a rider to do it.

 

One race doesn't prove there isn't a problem to solve. You also highlight when it could be an advantage.

[BWitcher]

 

One race doesn't prove there isn't a problem to solve. You also highlight when it could be an advantage.

 

I didn't..

 

I said there was a 'possible' advantage, negated by handicapping your other rider.

 

Besides, I haven't got to prove there isn't a problem.. you've claimed there is, let's see your evidence. Let's have a list of all the races where this 'problem' has occurred.

[SCB]

If there is a "problem" is hardly an actual problem. It's a potential tactical move - one of the few left for a team manager to use these days!

[castrolargh]

Not the first time this has been used to change gate positions. As the "Voice of Reason" said, get rid of the 15 metre penalty, replace with reserve, or if it is a reserve then 3 riders only. This will not alter the gate positions, problem solved.

Or if it was a reserve that offended , bring in a no8, call me old school but having a no 8 is not a bad idea, I would hazard a guess that there will be a "junior " at most tracks most of the time who would relish the chance of maybe getting a few laps in if opportunity were to arise