Belle Vue National Stadium

[SCB]

but it wasn't belle vue money it was the councils , bv were buying or leasing the finished product , do you visit the production line and oversee production when you buy a car ?

My jobs is writing software for gameshows. As a business we build the graphics, fire lighting and sounds.

 

Clients (the production company) are constantly asking for updates. We have to show various things to the client at regular intervals. The client is always asking us and in return their client (the TV channel) is always asking them.

 

They don't wait until the day we get into studio to make sure everything is working. That's going to lead to disaster. We get into studio and everyone sets up, us, lighting, sound and everyone else involved. You then reverse for 2 or 3 days with standins. Then after 3 or 4 days you reherse with the host. Only then do you actually start recording shows.

 

It seems to me BV were not checking up on what was happening. They did the equivalent of the rehearsal with standins by letting a couple of riders practice but then they failed to do the real rehearsal. They should have run a behind closed doors meeting the week before.

 

You can make all the excuses you like but they're just that, excuses. It shouldn't have happened.

[B.V 72]

Three quarters of the track was layed quite a while before bends 3 and 4 with no problems.Which I would think would have been inspected by DG and C M and they must have been happy with it as it proved to be fine why would they then think that the 3rd and 4th bends would be layed any different.Just a thought.

[Aces51]

bit it wasn't belle vue money it was the councils so really belle vue have no say unless the mcc say so

That was exactly be situation. They either accepted it or no stadium and the end of the Aces. Ok, so there were serious problems with the track but in the end we have an excellent stadium and racing track.

 

My jobs is writing software for gameshows. As a business we build the graphics, fire lighting and sounds.

 

Clients (the production company) are constantly asking for updates. We have to show various things to the client at regular intervals. The client is always asking us and in return their client (the TV channel) is always asking them.

 

They don't wait until the day we get into studio to make sure everything is working. That's going to lead to disaster. We get into studio and everyone sets up, us, lighting, sound and everyone else involved. You then reverse for 2 or 3 days with standins. Then after 3 or 4 days you reherse with the host. Only then do you actually start recording shows.

 

It seems to me BV were not checking up on what was happening. They did the equivalent of the rehearsal with standins by letting a couple of riders practice but then they failed to do the real rehearsal. They should have run a behind closed doors meeting the week before.

 

You can make all the excuses you like but they're just that, excuses. It shouldn't have happened.

 

That wouldn't have made any difference unless by chance it had been held on a day when the atmospheric conditions caused the water to rise to the surface. There was an extensive practice held after the first lot of remedial work and everyone thought the problem had been solved. It was only a change in the weather that showed it hadn't.

[Grand Central]

Three quarters of the track was layed quite a while before bends 3 and 4 with no problems.Which I would think would have been inspected by DG and C M and they must have been happy with it as it proved to be fine why would they then think that the 3rd and 4th bends would be layed any different.Just a thought.

 

Because you can never trust builders (or many other contractors) not to cut corners as soon as you take your eyes off them.

 

In addtition that last section was being done just towards the end of the build when all manner of other 'finishing' was being done and the date of the GOM was fast approoaching.

 

If my house was riding on it I would be togged up with hard-hat and hiviz EVERY single day in those last couple of months making sure that it was not going to go t!ts up. They would have had to manhandle me off site when I had so much riding on the work of so many others.

 

And I bet CM and DG wake up in the middle of the night time and time again, wishing that they HAD done that.

Edited February 15, 2017 by Grand Central

[Aces51]

If the announcement by the council is made tomorrow could that be anything to do with the Speedway Star also publishing their article. If I were cynical I might think they were trying to shift the spotlight to the good news and bury the bad.

 

Because you can never trust builders (or many other contractors) not to cut corners as soon as you take your eyes off them.

 

In addtition that last section was being done just towards the end of the build when all manner of other 'finishing' was being done and the date of the GOM was fast approoaching.

 

If my house was riding on it I would be togged up with hard-hat and hiviz EVERY single day in those last couple of months making sure that it was not going to go t!ts up. They would have had to manhandle me off site when I had so much riding on the work of so many others.

 

And I bet CM and DG wake up in the middle of the night time and time again, wishing that they HAD done that.

 

The comparison is more akin to someone else paying for the house and you are the first tenant. They probably wouldn't let you onto the building site. DG and CM were not allowed to speak directly to the contractors let alone stand over them watching what they did.

[Grand Central]

If the announcement by the council is made tomorrow could that be anything to do with the Speedway Star also publishing their article. If I were cynical I might think they were trying to shift the spotlight to the good news and bury the bad.

 

The comparison is more akin to someone else paying for the house and you are the first tenant. They probably wouldn't let you onto the building site. DG and CM were not allowed to speak directly to the contractors let alone stand over them watching what they did.

 

 

Only because those were the idiotic terms they signed up to.

 

Just as, according to them, they later signed up to clauses etc that were equally daft.

[Aces51]

 

 

Only because those were the idiotic terms they signed up to.

 

Just as, according to them, they later signed up to clauses etc that were equally daft.

 

Against all the odds they had achieved what many thought impossible by persuading the council to build the new stadium. Are you seriously suggesting that they should have walked away because the council were insisting that they and only they would control the construction process. It was the council's money and perfectly understandable that they insisted on full control.

Edited February 15, 2017 by Aces51

[Humphrey Appleby]

That was exactly be situation. They either accepted it or no stadium and the end of the Aces. Ok, so there were serious problems with the track but in the end we have an excellent stadium and racing track.

Great for the sport, assuming the damage of a crowd turning up to a new stadium only for the meeting to be called off isn't long lasting. Not so great for those who put their money into the venture, and have lost their shirts.

 

Heart can't rule the head unless it's money you can afford to lose, and whilst we don't know the full detail of the financial and contractual arrangements, they don't seem to have been on terms that I'd find acceptable.

It was the council's money and perfectly understandable that they insisted on full control.

Why would the council object to speedway people asking to inspect a critical component of the whole venture, and one the council would certainly have no experience of building? Even if the promotion only had an advisory role, it might have flagged up the shortcuts that were being taken.

[Grand Central]

 

Against all the odds they had achieved what many thought impossible by persuading the council to build the new stadium. Are you seriously suggesting that they should have walked away because the council were insisting that they and only they would control the construction process. It was the council's money and perfectly understandable that they insisted on full control.

 

 

I imagine that that that is a question best asked of DG and CM as they made that choice.

 

No single person at the council was ever going to be personally out of pocket like them.

 

If they have really suffered huge financial losses as individuals I would be surprised if they felt that it was a wise one, now, at least.

[OveFundinFan]

Banging your head against a brick wall, Aces51, the last post proves that. Seems some cant accept that MCC/ISG were doing things there way.

Page 2 of that "leaked" report, para 2, implies that after designing the shape of the track and laying down its specification DG/CM were "passengers" to what happened. No doubt they were straining at the leash to be involved but were "restrained". So many clever clogs on here saying "I would have done this", "I would have done that" - but none of them were involved with the actual goings.

 

In that 6 page leak on page 3 , last paragraph it refers to the loss asseor that DG?CM had involved, this was April 11th and they said that"do not underestimate the damage has done to your business, it has been a catastrophe that will take a long time for your business to recover from". Thats in reference to the £650,000 that the cancellation of the opening night and following matches, including the good Friday meet with Wolves, bank holiday meetings always being a good taking.

[B.V 72]

None of us know the facts.But we all have our own ideas of how things should have been done.

 

The only fact i know is that GM and CM made mistakes and paid a heavy price.But they got the new stadium built and in the long run have given the Belle vue aces a future.Without them i would think that the Aces trying to run at the dog track would have folded a good few years ago.(how many new promoters would have been lineing up to take over the promotion at the dog track)

So the way i feel is that i will always be grateful to them for saving the Belle vue aces.Thank you both.

[ouch]

MCC had the own Construction Engineer and Project manager overseeing works as they were the ones paying ISG. Belle Vue had little to no rights when it came to inspecting and commenting on the build.

 

I could be wrong but I don't believe the CEO, directors, chairman etc stand on a daily basis watching the construction of their latest venue as it comes out of the ground. They delegate or employ contractors or sub contractors to carry out the work on their behalf. At least that was my understanding until now.

 

Similarly, when the government get round to building all these new rental properties we hear about I now know that prospective tenants can have free access to the build and pass judgment as they see fit.

Every day is a learning day they say.

[PHILIPRISING]

Why would the council object to speedway people asking to inspect a critical component of the whole venture, and one the council would certainly have no experience of building? Even if the promotion only had an advisory role, it might have flagged up the shortcuts that were being taken.

ISG not Gordon and Morton were responsible for building the sub-base for the track. No speedway experience required there. It was only the top surface, the icing on the cake as it were, that involved Colin Meredith, etc.

 

Obviously Gordon and Morton were not going to watch while the sub-base on turns three and four was laid. They would assume it would be done to the specification required and as carried out on the rest of the track.

[Humphrey Appleby]

I could be wrong but I don't believe the CEO, directors, chairman etc stand on a daily basis watching the construction of their latest venue as it comes out of the ground. They delegate or employ contractors or sub contractors to carry out the work on their behalf. At least that was my understanding until now.

The difference is this is speedway, which exists in something of a parallel dimension to everything else. Other construction projects might use reputable builders and project managers, and should something go badly wrong, the client can afford to sue for damages.

 

In speedway though, everything seems to have to be done in a cheap and dodgy way - whether it's contractors getting some erstwhile fly-tippers to come round, or storing shale under a scientifically controlled old tarpaulin...

[iris123]

The difference is this is speedway, which exists in something of a parallel dimension to everything else. Other construction projects might use reputable builders and project managers, and should something go badly wrong, the client can afford to sue for damages.

 

In speedway though, everything seems to have to be done in a cheap and dodgy way - whether it's contractors getting some erstwhile fly-tippers to come round, or storing shale under a scientifically controlled old tarpaulin...

Yes,but this is the Council who were giving out the building contracts.They would ensure they go to reputable..........oh,forget that

[Shale Searcher]

I can see it now, last bit of track, (turns 3 & 4) right lads, bit of a hole when we've dug out this rock solid and pulverized bit, blimey gov, that ain't all gonna fit in a skip, and what's happened to that damn black sheeting we've been putting down, any of it left Gov? No!! Oh, ok, just shovel all that s**t in the hole, we'll pack it down and put a top dressing on and we've saved a few quid, Won't make any difference, looks the same!!

Edited February 15, 2017 by Shale Searcher

[orion]

That was exactly be situation. They either accepted it or no stadium and the end of the Aces. Ok, so there were serious problems with the track but in the end we have an excellent stadium and racing track.

 

 

That wouldn't have made any difference unless by chance it had been held on a day when the atmospheric conditions caused the water to rise to the surface. There was an extensive practice held after the first lot of remedial work and everyone thought the problem had been solved. It was only a change in the weather that showed it hadn't.

it reported that the 3 and 4th bends were poor during the day ...even if was because of the atmospheric conditions yet again it was up to Morton and Gordon to test the track at that time of night have a couple meetings etc before hand so they are at fault ..the bottom line is they knew there massive problems with the 3rd 4th bends but they were so much pressure money wise they took a risk to run the meeting but as soon riders got it they quickly knew the track was not fit to race on .

[Aces51]

it reported that the 3 and 4th bends were poor during the day ...even if was because of the atmospheric conditions yet again it was up to Morton and Gordon to test the track at that time of night have a couple meetings etc before hand so they are at fault ..the bottom line is they knew there massive problems with the 3rd 4th bends but they were so much pressure money wise they took a risk to run the meeting but as soon riders got it they quickly knew the track was not fit to race on .

 

If you follow your madness of holding a test meeting at the same time as the actual meeting you would also have to hold meetings at the same time of night in every possible weather conditions other than heavy rain, as you wouldn't know what the weather was going to be like on the Saturday. Otherwise, tests could have been held during the previous week when the weather was warmer and all would have been ok, come the meeting and the problem, caused by the change in temperature, would still have happened.

 

As for the problems seen during the day on the Saturday, the opinions of track staff, riders and officials was that it wasn't sufficient to call off the meeting. It was much later, when the riders changed their minds. Also, don't forget that the referee takes control some time before the meeting starts and obviously he must have thought, even at that time, that it could go ahead.

Edited February 15, 2017 by Aces51

[OveFundinFan]

Aces51, even if MCC did a press release claiming the problems were all of their doing, they supposed to control the contractors but didnt, and they so sorry for the problems it caused BV speedway and they will recompense BV for all thweir losses ...... some on here, including Orion, will still be bleating out the same of story that it was all DG/CM fault.

[The White Knight]

Some folk on here should remember - Hindsight is a wonderful thing.